Wind and Hot Air…

Al Hadfield

Al Hadfield

Senior Member
Wind and Hot Air…or Wind 101…

I have been noticing quite a few new names on this board. I know some of these are old timers that are using a new name, but I think we have a few new RFBR shooters, or at least potential new shooters. Considering some of the hot air that has been released on this board over the last few months I think it’s time to show the new guys and gals that we can do something constructive. I remember my friend Harry Deneen made some very informative postings a couple of years ago that stimulated some nice discussion. Now I’m no Harry, but that is what I would like to see happen with this post. For a starter how about talking about the wind and some of your thoughts on your wind shooting techniques. Experienced shooters please help me out here and you new shooters please ask your questions.

A little story…When I got my first BR gun, a Time Precision, I thought it didn’t shoot worth a damn. I had read all I could find in Precision Shooting and everywhere else about the wind and how important it was, but I way underestimated just how important reading the wind was and how important the subtletys of wind reading were. Keep in mind, this is before Al Gore invented the internet so I was pretty much on my own. Well, no one ever accused me of being a fast learner, but after a case or three of ammo I started to catch on.

So, let’s talk about the wind…“Wind is my friend”. I’ve heard several shooters say this, and you know something? I tend to agree…to a point. I hate calm conditions, they can be deadly and unpredictable. Here in New England in the summer, our predominate wind direction is out of the South East. At my range that means the wind is coming in from my right. That is when it’s not eddying around from every other direction imaginable. I know some will disagree but my least favorite directions are directly from the rear and directly in my face. Oh my, have I seen the bullet do some crazy things in this condition. My favorite condition is when the flags are all pointing in the same direction and the tails are just barely fluttering at about a 45 degree angle or a bit less. This is the condition I hope for when I’m testing ammo, add a cloudy or overcast sky and you have nice ammo testing weather. Ah, a boy can dream can’t he? Buy-the-way, don’t wait for calm days to practice, practice in the wind. It’s the only way to learn and to develop confidence. Match day will be windy, guaranteed.

I’d like to say something about those wind charts I’m sure most of you have seen, you know the ones that show that the bullet will go to the left and up when the wind is coming from the right and tell you the bullet will go to the right and down when the wind is coming in from the left? Well they are basically right, but take a look at them and then throw the thing away!

Every range is different and every range has its own peculiarities. Trust your sighters to tell you what you need to know. Have patience. Remember, even the windiest day has its lulls. Also remember to pay attention to the angle of the flags. This is one of the things many folks, including myself, forget to watch. When I say angle I am referring to the subtle changes of, let’s say, a bit more from the south or a bit more from the east. Not the complete reversals in direction, those are obvious.

As to wind flags you need at least three, perhaps more. I use five. Also, there are Wind Probes and Wind-E-Caters that can help.

This thing is getting a bit long winded so I’ll quit for now. I know I have just scratched the surface. So please, experienced shooters add and enlarge and new shooters ask your questions.

Al :)
 
Good post Al
I agree....sighters sighters sighters !!!
Charts don't tell you about the bullet movement when the air is warm or cold but the sighters will.


Fred K
 
I have a couple questions, which flag is the most important and how many conditions do you try to keep track of? Thanks, Douglas
 
i watch the flag closest to the bench the most. if the wind is high there it will really blow your shot off at he 50 yard mark. i watch all the flags but that first one the most.
 
ok sense i am a new benchrest shooter, what am i watching the flag for-- if the wind is from right to left--then i aim a little left??--well how much left?? or i am waiting till the flag stops moving ot almost stops?? etc...

bill
 
I remember it being the mirage is your friend instead of the wind.
Shooters need to think of wind as white water. It is much more complex due to the interaction of objects changing the flow and the ground effect. The few benchrest matches that I shoot I always wait for all the flags to be perfect. I save a bunch of ammo when the time runs out! I think the worse condition is a fish tail wind blowing towards the shooter. Practice makes perfect (or at least better).
Added another 37 to the collection today! This one has a tube sight on it.
 
Hi Fred, Yes, those sighters are the thing that tell the tale.

Douglas, Mr. Nobody and Nipper...Theoretically the flag closest to the bench is most important, but, and this is a big but, you should be paying equal attention to all the flags. If you fixate on one flag in particular and two or three flags down range are in reversal or doing a jig you are in trouble.

Nipper, I try to sight in for a mild prevailing condition then hold off for a pick-up in velocity. I try my best never to have a hold-off where the dot is not touching the ten ring, (that's on a IR50/50 target). When the wind goes into a reversal I don't shoot unless I'm at the last shot with 10 seconds on the clock.

ProneShooter, I've never used mirage much in figuring the wind. I'm not saying it is not useful, it's just too much for this ol' boy to figure out.

As I mentioned there are a bunch of different opinions on all of this stuff, these are just one side of the story. :rolleyes:

Al
 
Closer to the ground

Prone shooters will have more mirage as they are closer to the ground. I still notice mirage, while bench shooting, but mostly when the wind is relatively calm. That's less than 10MPH on our range. The terrain & lack of ground cover, between the line and the target will also make mirage more noticeable on hot sunny days. On Cool nights, after a hot sunny day, you will also get heat thermals that will mess you up as well.
 
Mirage is like another flag

A change in mirage equates to a change in condition. The flags may look similar to the way they did when you shot that pinwheel but if the mirage is different you may not catch a ten. Take a sighter!
 
Douglas, Bill,

I sight in and try to shoot the prevailing condition. Also like to keep track of a secondary condtion when things are switchy, (most of the time around here). It's always nice to have all the flags the same when you shoot. That said, sometimes the first flag will prevail regardless of what the others show. Other times even one flag a little off will be worth a nine. Then there are days you'll never get four flags exactly the same. You never know just which flag or combination will do on a given range or day. Sighters are a must, sometimes, lots of them.

The only way you can learn to shoot the wind is shooting in the wind, or, as FredJ says, practice, practice, practice. While at the practice, watch the flags. When you see a change hold the same as your last shot and shoot. See where the bullet goes, which direction and how much. When your condition comes back, shoot your hold at the same bull, note where you hit. That should give you some perspective on how much these bullets can and do move.

Ken
 
Al - Thanks for starting the thread.

I've only been at this a couple of years but have had the opportunity to shoot with some of the folks commenting here.

I got the wind charts. I read the PS articles and the BR books, but it's only by going to the matches and shooting in the same wind conditions with those who are much better than me that some of this stuff began to sink in.

The other most important lessons have come from doing just what Ken mentioned -- during practice pick a wind condition, aim at the center of the bull and watch what happens to the bullet. I like to keep simple records while practicing -- showing the flag positions and where the bullet went in relation to the bull.

..and there's something else I learned from Al. When you misread a wind condition and mess up a shot, make a mental note of what you "shudda done" -- let it go (don't brood over it) and get the next shot right.

Best,
Michael
 
Great post, Al! Here's something I learned from watching Harry Deneen at my first Nationals: Study your flags, even when you're not at the bench. Set them up before the match and spend some time trying to pick a condition or two before you even sit down. You'll have an idea which condition repeats most often and also be able to pick out a couple of backup conditions.

Another thing I like to do on the REALLY windy days is to shoot a few sighters in the really hard blows, just to see what happens. It doesn't happen often, but a couple of times the clock has been running low and I've had to hold darn near in the black to score a ten.:eek:

Todd
 
Watch a good shooter and their flags.

AL,
Great post. I think you told me to watch a good shooter and their flags when they shoot. I have been doing that a lot and it has helped me this last year. I am real happy when I draw a relay that Penny is not shooting on. Boy can she shoot!!!

Paul
 
Thanks for your input guys!

A couple of things occured to me. One is when you are shooting at a match be very aware of the flags to your right and left. These can tell you a lot about what is coming at ya.

The second thing I thought of is kind'a hard to explain. I always tell new shooters to "Watch your back trail". In other words pay attention to your last several shots and where they landed. You may see a pattern. Perhaps the last three shots were all 10's but barely hanging onto that 10 ring at five o'clock. If you see this it's time for an tiny adjustment in your hold. Perhaps go to the sighters and figure out what's going on.

Yes Todd, At the start of a match I like to get my flags up PDQ. That way I can start watching them and try to figure out what I'm up against condition-wise. And if there is more than one relay I try to be aware of what's happening down range.

Again, thanks for your imput, Al :)
 
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Watching a benchrest match with a whole bunch of flags out it seems like the flags act as vortex stabilizers and stream (channel) the wind flow. It looks like the changes occur more often and vary more in direction on the windward side of the line than the leeward. Next match look at the shifts and follow them across the firing line and see if and how any changes take place. This is really shows up when the wind is blowing across the range.
 
ProneShooter
That is very true it seems at Summerville !
Regards
Fred K
 
The Ron Elby article in PS has helped me the most with the wind. What I took away from it is every time you set up, conditions are different. You read the wind and adjust your shot for the here and now. Study before shooting and select a couple repeatable conditions. Shoot those and see where the POI is for that day and that range.
Understanding the influences of the wind currents is more than I can process when shooting. But, "if tails & flags point like this, POI is there", now that I can comprehend. I don't have enough patience yet so I do falter and try to make an occasional ad-hoc adjustment and it usually means a *&%$#@. I am learning,,,,s l o w l y.

Regis
 
Al, nice post, and great input. Brings back memories of when I started not to long ago and the help I received from someone who turned out to become a special person in my life.

Reading the wind can't be taught it must be experienced. If you are new to rimfire BR or just starting, start by keeping it simple without overloading to much information at once. It's possible to start with 3 to 4 flags and as the understanding and experience is gained you can add more flags and the types of indicators that were mentioned to suit your needs.

Keep good notes on your progress. There's been many times where I sat and watched the flags for hours without shooting. At first there's going to be a lot of guessing but as time passes and you gain the experience there will be a shift of knowing and no this is nothing to do with magic or voodoo. Just like in any other sport or game to be successful takes time, dedication, a belief in yourself and patience.


I have also learned in these 5 years of shooting that whatever conditions bring you that day you need to believe it's your friend. If your complaining how windy, switchy or it's to calm or to hot or to cold more than likely your done before you even start. It will become a long day and more of a doubting game.

Bottom line, practice in all conditions gain the experience needed to believe in yourself and your equipment and the knowing you can deliver on match day no matter what the conditions are like. Leave the complaining to others.

JMO,

Joe
 
The basis for any wind reading discussion

It's seldom stated but the basis/reference for any comment/advice concerning how to handle the wind is based on a rifle of extreme accuracy. Any departure from a "one hole rifle" will increase the difficulty and at some point all you can do is aim at the same place and hope.
 
This might be a bit vague for an answer but on average running a card how many shots will be a 'hold over? Ever shot, -50%, a few. I know it depends on the wind, but you top shooters just in general -how often do you hold over?

I just now think i am starting to get a feel for the wind with 1 flag. Going back to what Mr. Wilbur just said -I'm getting a feel for where my rifle should shoot.

In the past i have always shot at the dot, maybe the last few weeks or so i'm testing hold over and i think i can see positive results. I'm going to guess you experienced shooters very seldom shoot dead at the dot.

I guess what i'm trying to establish is sorta a rule for the new shooter on how often you should be expecting to holding over. I now know shooting at the dot ever shot is wrong. Maybe if their could be a number say to a new guy, you should expect to hold over at least "X" percent of the time.

I think some kind of number would help a new guy understand how much the wind infulences the shot. Whew this is sorta rambling but i have never read an answer to this question. thanks joe:)
 
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