Who really makes the best bullets?

S

Silverback

Guest
I have been searching and comparing different bullets mostly the 6.5 and 30cal groups. What do you think of Berger, JLK, Sierra MK, Hornady A-max and Lapua Scenars? To many brands and is there really that big of a difference. Also where do you shop for the best prices for these components?
 
Every bullet

from these manufacures is a good bullet. Which one is going to shoot most accurately in your barrel/load combination is the one you need to find and that is the best bullet for you.

Shoot well
Peter
 
JLK and Berger have cosiderably higher BCs so why do people talk so much about SMKs. Being they are all high quality?
 
"High BC bullets don't win matches,accurate bullets do"quote-Dave Tooley.
Buy one of the bullets mentioned and try it,you might like it.Some work in certain rifling (i.e 5c or 5r might like bullet B and not like bullet A.)You just have to experiment or ask someone who shoots the cartridge you are using.
 
Use

Hi Silver back, For what intended purpose do you want the bullets for ?, what distance ? Is it for hunting?Competition only? A bit more info might help .. JR..Jeff Rogers
Silverback said:
I have been searching and comparing different bullets mostly the 6.5 and 30cal groups. What do you think of Berger, JLK, Sierra MK, Hornady A-max and Lapua Scenars? To many brands and is there really that big of a difference. Also where do you shop for the best prices for these components?
Click to expand...
 
I am looking at building a 260Rem posible 6.5-284 not to sure but most likely the 260Rem. I want to shoot paper and coyote. I would really like to take coyotes out at 600+ yards and papers beyond that. I do like Bergers and the A-max bullets.
 
I am also building a 300wm. I want it to be my Alaskan Boom Stick.
 
Unless it's windy!
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Flat base bullets have won and placed top 5 in more than one 1000yd BR National Championship with more than one person/rifle. They have also won 600 and 1000yd BR relays and shootoffs with 6.5 and 30 caliber bullets. This is not a fluke. BC advanatge they do not have. Accurate bullets... yes they are. Does everyone use them... no. So they are not dominate in 1000yd competition as far as stats. but BC doesn't win matches!

"High BC bullets don't win matches,accurate bullets do"quote-Dave Tooley.

Whether shooting FB or lower BC BT bullets..... I have fired to many long range matches over several years to know you can take that statement to the bank and cash it without a picture ID.

Steve
 
If you & any average shooter were to walk up to the 1Kyd line on a windy day.. You with a 6PPC easily 4x more accurate than your opponents 6.5x284 with alittle less than 2x your BC.. You would be whipped senseless.

Based on this, and the fact that ALL LR shooters are using heavy/cal bullets, and that 1/2moa is good enough, one might take the position that it's more about BC than accuracy.
We're not talking anomalies. Heavy 30cals dominate overall.
Isn't this true? Why do you think so?

Because of all the qualifiers tied to any position(BC -vs- quality), it's really more rhetoric than truth anyway.
Afterall, the truth passes all tests.
 
mikecr,
Or the flip side of this arguement.... how come the Lost River Ballistics bullets haven't won a match? They are the highest BC bullets ever made that I'm aware of. But why haven't they won something? Because they won't shoot! A .9 something BC didn't do anyone any good if you can't get them to group good.
Comparing records and agg results between FCSA and std 1000yd BR guns say that shooting a 50 BMG side by side with a good 30 caliber at 1000yds say that the 30 would win the majority of the matches. The 50 has the advanatage in the BC department but that doesn't mean it will win. And it doesn't according to the numbers.

So talking apples to apples the bottom line: on any 600 and 1000yd firing line in the past I will guarentee you that the highest BC bullet didn't win the match 100% of the time. I have won 1000yd relays using the 6.5 140gr FB bullets in not so very good weather against the 30 caliber high BC bullets. The BC of these FB bullets is just under .500 according to reverse engineering of the known drop at 1000yds. And Randy Robinett's 187gr FB has repeatedly won relays, matches, and National Championships against bullets of considerable advanatge in the BC department in head to head competition over an extended period of time. Why...... because BC is NOT the end all solve all for our game. It's about the size of the group not the clicks i nthe scope for BR work.

So to put some realistic parameters on this discussion... if you shoot a bullet of approx .5 BC or higher for LR competition:

"High BC bullets don't win matches,accurate bullets do"

Steve
 
I agree Steve.
All I'm saying is that the statement about accurate bullets dismisses so many qualifiers and contradictions that it isn't worth uttering.

In fact, it specifically portrays BC as insignificant(which is rediculous).
And yet, altering meplats for uniform BC has been one of this same shooter's recent concerns.

So the statement needs qualification IMO:

"Given that every single bullet used in long range competition has a relatively high BC, and with everything else in the entire world -equal, those bullets which shoot most accurately in our guns offer highest potential to win matches"

When corrected for context(qualified) like this, it actually means little to nothing.
 
Groups !

Hi Silverback, If your wanting a dual purpose gun then i would stop being concerned over the bullet brand ,all make bullets are good enough ..I don't know how big a coyote is ,but guess it's not much different to our AUST Dingo(native dog) .. That's a fairly big target compared to what i',m trying to hit and they are not that tough ,so Hornady ,Sierra or the Berger should suit just fine in ya 6.5.....If on the other hand you want to win LR matchs ,then you need an accurate bullet .. This does not always go hand in hand with the highest BC..Hope this helps
Silverback said:
I am looking at building a 260Rem posible 6.5-284 not to sure but most likely the 260Rem. I want to shoot paper and coyote. I would really like to take coyotes out at 600+ yards and papers beyond that. I do like Bergers and the A-max bullets.
Click to expand...
 
mikecr,
I think you are really reading way to much between the lines on this. I guess the best way to look at the meaning of this statement is to not make it an either/or statement as you are tending to do (In fact, it specifically portrays BC as insignificant(which is rediculous). I agree that is rediculous and stated that in my above post.

This statement actually has four different results and not two. If you think of it like this then I think it will be really clear.

The 4 results are:
#1 bullet with high BC and is accurate in your rifle
#2 bullet with high BC is less accurate in your rifle
#3 bullet with lower BC and is accurate in your rifle
#4 bullet with lower BC is less accurate in your rifle

You can rule out bullet #4 altogether. I would select the most accurate bullets from #1 or #3 (and not #2) based on which one is the most accruate in my rifle. And BC wouldn't be part of that decision unless they both shot the same. Then I would select the higher BC bullet.

If you have a high BC bullet that is built with uniform jackets and put together by a good bulletmaker it will win. But you can't reverse that statement and have the same result. Meaning you can't put together a less than top quality bullet with a higher BC and still win the same amount of the time. That is all that statement says. No more no less.

Getting back to the original question(s) posted by silverback I think Matt Dienes' reply pretty much summed it up. You have to find the bullet that shoots in your rifle and BC shouldn't be the defining part of your decision knowing that long range bullets that are available come within a BC range of approx .5 or above to begin with.

JLK and Berger have cosiderably higher BCs so why do people talk so much about SMKs. Being they are all high quality?
Click to expand...

Silverback,
Bullet Lots change even within the same manufacturer. Sometimes they are good, sometimes they simply don't shoot as good as the last lot. It happens to all manufacturers at some point. Sometimes it's not the makers fault. Ever think about what happens to match bullets during shipment across country? They may not be as uniform as they were when they came out of the point-up die.
I had a barrel on my LG that I couldn't get to shoot very well. I ended up trying some older 140gr SMK I had and it shoot a lot better with that bullet til I ran out.
That bullet simply worked at that time with the barrel/load/twist setup I had. A newer lot of the same bullet wouldn't give me the same results I got from the old mid '90s lot# I had shot before.

Steve
 
Silverback

If its a dual purpose rig use the Bergers.They have won more matches than the flatbased bullets and are easy to get.They are relatively cheap when compared to other match bullets.They are also thin skinned compared to the Sierras so they will open up on game at the longer ranges.The Sierra's tend to pass straight through.

I don't know how many posters here actually shoot 50's but I know for a fact that I do.At 1000 yards the 50 has more stopping power than a 460 Weatherby does at it's muzzle. For a cartridge thats been around for as long as it has with no good jacketed bullets at all it holds its own very well.Last I heard Sheri Rasmussen put up a 2.5 inch group at 1000 yards which ain't bad considering there are only 3 primers available for it.Only one powder and zero jacketed custom bullets for benchrest.
Lynn
 
To answer the orig post directly, I would suggest any AMAX bullet for your hunting needs. They work wonderfully on game/varmint at LR. Avoid the MK's as they are much tougher in construction. I have heard some Lapua's didn't do well in opening up either. Berger, I shoot but not at moving things so can't say. Some are very happy with Bergers for Large game hunting.

For paper, you got to try different bullets as pipes can be very fussy. My 6.5's love the Scenars (two rifles same load). A friend who uses the same brand of barrel can't group the scenar to save his life. His barrel prefers MK's.

Choose your paper bullet based on average groups, not the best group, not the name on the box.

Jerry

PS I shoot F class so wind bucking is very important to me. I chose a combo that has the highest BC combined with the best accuracy launched with the lowest vertical dispersion at the lowest recoil.

It's a compromise in all aspects but the best overall package to accomplish my tasks.

Different games, different tasks, different needs, different 'better mousetraps'
 
best bullets

Silverback said:
I am looking at building a 260Rem posible 6.5-284 not to sure but most likely the 260Rem. I want to shoot paper and coyote. I would really like to take coyotes out at 600+ yards and papers beyond that. I do like Bergers and the A-max bullets.
Click to expand...
i have a 6.5-284 and a 300 win. i have shot over 250 coyotes. you are having something built ?? you don't say action or barrrel. my 6.5-284 really likes lapua 123 and 139; my 300 win like the 210 berger. i would shoot either a 120 balistic tip; or a 123 scenar out to 600 . more than 600, i would shoot the 139 (in my gun). i would get a 6.5-06 or a 6.5-284. just my preference. roninflag
 
I really do thank you all for your replies. I am wanting a Rem. 700 action and a Lilja barrel. The 300 win mag using the same. Is a 20" barrel OK for a 260 Rem? What is the shortest for a 6.5-284? Would a 243 WSSM be any better than a 260 REM?
 
Silverback

Silverback said:
I really do thank you all for your replies. I am wanting a Rem. 700 action and a Lilja barrel. The 300 win mag using the same. Is a 20" barrel OK for a 260 Rem? What is the shortest for a 6.5-284? Would a 243 WSSM be any better than a 260 REM?
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,,,,,,,,,,,20"/.260Rem and you will be compromised
,,,,,,,,,,,6.5/284 and anything under 26" is a compromise
,,,,,,,,,,,if you don't use 20"/260Rem barrel. NO

Shoot well
Peter
 
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