Which Type Of Benchrest Gun Should I Build?

C

cl5man

Guest
A little background first. Im a liscensed dealer, i also do alot of custom gun work. Most of my clients want fancy longrange hunting guns on 700's or model 70's. Ive built many, and i can hold my own when it comes to hunting rifles. Me personaly, im not a hunter. Im a paper puncher. Ive built myself a few 6br's over the years on factory 700 actions. They all shoot amazing (outside the benchrest world) when it comes to accuracy. People are always amazed when they see a real 1/4" group. Ive never competed, never been around it, and dont really know much about the rules. Id like some of the main rules involving light and heavy benchrest rigs. Im gona take the plunge and buy a custom action, new or used depending on what i can find. Probably Shilen or Kreiger barell, only because thats what ive always used. Id like to step up to the 6 PPC but theres so many different neck configurations. I wanna reload the best rounds i can, but i wanna make sure the reamer i purchase is the right one. Id also like some opinions on barrel contour, action type and stock types to fit in both the light and heavy classe weight limits. McMillian is top of the line in the hunting world, im assuming there Edge stocks are just as reputable? Im not a newb to building accurate guns, just a newb when it comes to using real benchrest components.
 
1st off....do you want a hunter benchrest, short range benchrest or a long range bench rifle. They're all a little different.
 
Id like to compete in short range 100 and 300 yard matches, i believe theres two different weight classes, could i compete in both?
 
"Point-blank" Benchrest, 100-200-300 yards seems to be what you are referring to. NBRSA is probably chief organization of group shooting, IBS features score shooting (though both groups sanction both types of shooting), UBR (I think) does score only. In group shooting, the contest is to shoot the smallest set of groups, called an "agg". In score, there are five bulls in each relay and the contest is to hit the "X" on all five and do it five times. Mind you, these are the utmost basics, but just for info.

The 6 PPC is still king of group shooting; the 30 BR reigns in score. NBRSA rules can be found here (http://www.nbrsa.org/downloads) and will give you the different classes. IBS rules are here (http://internationalbenchrest.com/downloads/IBS_Rule_Book_12b_Revised_2012.pdf). The main classes in both are Heavy Varmint (13.5-lb. max.), Light Varmint (10.5-lb. max.), Hunter and Varmint Hunter (10-lb. max. 6X scope), and Sporter (NBRSA, 10-lb.).

In IBS score shooting, HV and LV shoot together in Varmint for Score; in NBRSA they are separate classes. HV/LV rules allow 3" wide stock fore-ends, unlimited scope power; the other classes limit fore-end width to 2.25" and scopes to 6X max. There are some caliber limitations in Hunter and Varmint Hunter, all explained in the rulebook.

Hope you find something you like ...
 
Didn't see your last question until I had posted.

Yes, a Light Varmint (LV) can compete in both LV and HV, but not vice versa, for group shooting. In IBS score shooting, the two classes of HV/LV are grouped together as Varmint for Score and separate records are kept for LV and HV but in the matches they are the same.
 
If you had a 10.5# rifle in 6mm to 30cal. that met the stock dimension rules you'ld be good to go. I'm thinking 6PPC for your first one. This is not the right time to let somebody use you and your money for a test "case" - pun intended. Maybe later.....
 
We see less and less of the Edge stock on the firing lines these days. I have my theories on that having owned one, but I would just say it would be beneficial to you to go to a real BR match and look around. If you're not too far from Phoenix, run on over there the second week of October and observe the group Nationals. You'll get more info and ideas than you'll be able to digest.
 
I believe there is a link to the NBRSA and IBS websites on the main page of this site.
You can go to whichever one you will be shooing under and look at and/or download a copy of their regulations that will help.
 
cl5man,

I'm going to try and help you out a little by listing the most popular items you'll find on the firing line for short range BR. What you need is a LV (10.5 lb) gun in 6PPC. Most popular neck diameters are .262 & .268 (difference is the .268 nk is easier to turn and doesn't dent as easy). For a reamer, have it made for lapua brass (I use JGS1045 Body deminsions), and .035-.045 freebore.

ACTION:

1. BAT (Models: B, DS, SB, SV)
2. Kelbly (Panda, Grizzley II)
3. Borden (BR, BRM)
4. Farley (Blackwidow)
5. Stiller (Viper, Diamondback)

BARRELS:

1. Krieger
2. Bartlien
3. Shilen
4. Hart

STOCKS:

Carbon Fiber shell/Balsa Fiber Lam:
1. Scoville
2. Scarbough
Wood/Carbon Fiber Laminate (wood is visible)
1. Lenoard
2. Larson
Graphite/Fiberglass
1. Kelbly's (SPG, Klub, BR, TM)
2. McMillian (Bruno, Edge)

TRIGGERS:
1. Jewell
2. Kelbly's
3. Shilen

Scope Rings:
1. Kelbly's
2. Harrell's

Bases:
1. Davidson's

SCOPES:

1. Leupold Competition
2. March
3. Weaver

Hope this helps
Hovis
 
cl5man said:
Id like some of the main rules involving light and heavy benchrest rigs. Im gona take the plunge and buy a custom action, new or used depending on what i can find. Probably Shilen or Kreiger barell, only because thats what ive always used. Id like to step up to the 6 PPC but theres so many different neck configurations. I wanna reload the best rounds i can, but i wanna make sure the reamer i purchase is the right one. Id also like some opinions on barrel contour, action type and stock types to fit in both the light and heavy classe weight limits. McMillian is top of the line in the hunting world, im assuming there Edge stocks are just as reputable? Im not a newb to building accurate guns, just a newb when it comes to using real benchrest components.
Click to expand...

Read the forums, then read some more. Then some more. All the questions you've asked have been asked/answered before. :cool:
 
cl5man said:
Id like to step up to the 6 PPC but theres so many different neck configurations.
Click to expand...

Yup. Which should tell you that there is no clear answer. The plus side is competitive winners also use different neck configurations, which also means you can't go too far wrong with any of the more common ones.

i wanna make sure the reamer i purchase is the right one.
Click to expand...
Again, there is no clear answer. We've pretty much come to the conclusion that a throat angle of over 2-degrees half cone angle is "fussy". Don't know anybody with the cojones to try a half cone angle less than .75 degrees. Most common is 1.5 degrees. For right now, that'll work...

Similar things with clearance at the case head, and at the other end, freebore diameter. Current fashion (perhaps) is to use rather more neck clearance and rather less freebore diameter clearance that a few years ago. For example (and that only), more and more people are using .002+ neck clearance, and .0005 freebore diameter clearance (measured off the bullet pressure ring, not nominal diameter). As this is a bit new, the consequences of that compromise are appearing -- See a Greg Walley post, for example.

OK, enough. The point I'm trying to make is whatever good decisions you make now, and you will, if you follow Wilbur's advice, you will change your mind later, or at least, get curious and try something different. You will buy another reamer or two. Possibly a different action -- there are differences, not so much in performance capabilities, but in use.

Etc. on just about everything. By all means go to a few matches. Get the better books on the subject. Not so much to tell you how to do things -- you're already a gunsmith -- but to tell you the kinds of things people pay attention to. Not just the system we term "rifle," but the environment it has to operate in.

One interesting book is the Benchrest Shooting Primer

http://www.amazon.com/Benchrest-Shooting-Primer-Dave-Brennan/dp/0967094879

Not for current, up-to-date information, but to see how various people have, over time solved (struggled?) with the questions you raise.

There are a couple current books, one by Tony Boyer, one by Mike Ratigan, that are suppose to be first-rate for understanding the competitive side of benchrest.

I suppose it's a bias of mine, but I think books are better than the internet for a lot of information, including basic information. Several people have gone over the text, culling it for errors and confusions. More time has been spent trying to get everything that's important, and time has been spent finding better ways to communicate that information.

The Internet is better for the very latest information (which I'm suggesting, is not relevant to your situation).

Finally, welcome. I hope you enjoy benchrest, and after a while, will add to what we know.

Charles
 
You can analyze until "the cows come home" and it won't help. No way can you prevent uncertainty from creeping into the decision. If it were easy, we would all have hummer rifles....and BTW, we don't all have hummer rifles.

Call Dave Kiff and order his most popular 6PPC reamer, chamber up a barrel, screw it into your action, glue it in the stock and Voila! - benchrest rifle! Sign up for the next match and go take some names!!!
 
I have a great reamer on the shelf for that. I also have #1,#2,#3,#4 Ferris Pindell PPC Rifle,s with the history that goes with them. If any one would like a great start. By the way make sure you vote for Mitt...... Thanks Dave.
 
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I trust that D5man will make a decision and if its not quite what he wanted he will learn from it. This forum provides a supportive environment where mistakes are viewed as learning experiences not failures.
Do as Wilbur suggests. I did it ,with one exception. I bought a used Benchrest rifle and had a Benchrest Gunsmith replace the barrel. Learned a lot from that experience. I eventually ordered a reamer from Dave Kiff.

Its really just that simple.

Glenn
 
OK...... always the dissenting vote here.

You build rifles.

I too build rifles, even went to Pine Technical School of Gunsmithing to learn how to build rifles back in the day..... but until recently I've paid Bench Rest Gunsmith's to do my BR stuff, That AFTER doing it myself and paying some NON-Benchrest Gunsmiths. IMO you will be money ahead by getting your action by buying a used BR rifle, a rifle built by a BENCHREST builder.

The difference between a 1/4moa rifle and a 1/10moa rifle is astounding. I now am back to building my own stuff but I've spent tens of thousands of dollars in my learning curve.

It's like building a racing motor. Anyone off the street can buy the motor components and put them together but only a select few engine builders consistently win.

I don't know a polite way to say it, I'm NOT judging your skill level, but I myself had no freakin' IDEA what real accuracy was until I'd fired rifles that would put one-two-three bullets into the same hole AND IT JUST GET SMALLER!

Good luck, have fun, and if you're ever in search of a benchmark spend some time around some registered BR shoots. Shucks, I guess I'm prolly with Wilbur after all, BUILD the dern thing and then go shoot with the Big Boys and see how's ya' did. I might just be leading you all sidewise......

BTW IMO it ain't a'TALL about reamers, just get'cherself a fat enough one and a die to match and the battle's half won in that department.



opinionsby









al
 
ReedG said:
"Point-blank" Benchrest, 100-200-300 yards seems to be what you are referring to. NBRSA is probably chief organization of group shooting, IBS features score shooting (though both groups sanction both types of shooting), UBR (I think) does score only. In group shooting, the contest is to shoot the smallest set of groups, called an "agg". In score, there are five bulls in each relay and the contest is to hit the "X" on all five and do it five times. Mind you, these are the utmost basics, but just for info.

The 6 PPC is still king of group shooting; the 30 BR reigns in score. NBRSA rules can be found here (http://www.nbrsa.org/downloads) and will give you the different classes. IBS rules are here (http://internationalbenchrest.com/downloads/IBS_Rule_Book_12b_Revised_2012.pdf). The main classes in both are Heavy Varmint (13.5-lb. max.), Light Varmint (10.5-lb. max.), Hunter and Varmint Hunter (10-lb. max. 6X scope), and Sporter (NBRSA, 10-lb.).

In IBS score shooting, HV and LV shoot together in Varmint for Score; in NBRSA they are separate classes. HV/LV rules allow 3" wide stock fore-ends, unlimited scope power; the other classes limit fore-end width to 2.25" and scopes to 6X max. There are some caliber limitations in Hunter and Varmint Hunter, all explained in the rulebook.

Hope you find something you like ...
Click to expand...

Reed, VFS in the NBRSA is only one classs\. Both the LV and HV shoot as 1. There is no difference. The 2 gun in the NBRSA is a HBR and a VFS rifle match combined together. Go to the NBRSA website and look at the "Rules for Score Competition",in the Score section.

David J. Halblom Sr.
Chairman - Score Committee
 
Well....there's long term evidence that hummer reamers are real. By "long term", I mean that you have to go look at what happened over a long time. Gunsmiths have waxed and then waned somewhat predictably. Something causes that and my best guess is it's the reamer. I'm not alone with my guess albeit the only one foolish enough to talk about it. Next time a gunsmith emerges as "the go to guy", try to buy the reamer he's currently using......offer to trade him two just like it.
 
I agree with what Wilbur's saying, that certain reamers gain a certain cachet. I just don't believe it has anything to do with the reamer :)
 
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