M
moreguns
Guest
I have a bench mounted RCBS priming tool . Is there something better ? I have trouble seating them to the same depth in depth uniformed pockets.
Which priming tool is best used to set primers to a uniform depth ?
pbike
New member
There are good, better, and best out there. But as for Rcbs, we have a few of the old ones that are good, they don't make them like that anymore. The Best ones I could recomend are The Sinclair version, and the K and M version. Both are excellent with what they are meant to do. The K and M is a little easier to get used to, and the K and M is a bit less expensive. Sinclair has always "given back" or "paid forward" to the benchrest community in the past, And so did Ken Markle. In the past few years, Sinclairs was aquired by Brownells, (i hope that doesn't change their policy), also K and M was sold ( I hope that doesn't change their policy). In the past at Large matches or Benchrest schools, manufacturers have been asked to donate for a prize draw and consider it to be "Cheap Advertizing". Sinclair and K and M have always jumped at the opportunity to help promote benchrest. I look for that when I purchase items. In this case you get the best of both worlds, you get a great product and you help support those that support us.
Paul
Paul
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
The Hornady hand priming tool works quite well. It uses standard shell holders like you use in your RCBS press. If you are a fumble-fingers type, this magazine type is helpful. The lever on is worked with your fingers so it gives a good feel of when the primer is properly seated, http://www.hornady.com/store/Handheld-Priming-Tool-1-Each
The Lee Autoprime works about the same except the lever is worked with your thumb. It uses a special shell holder.
As Paul writes above, the Sinclair and K&M probably have the most exact feel but you must load each primer in the tool singularly.
The Lee Autoprime works about the same except the lever is worked with your thumb. It uses a special shell holder.
As Paul writes above, the Sinclair and K&M probably have the most exact feel but you must load each primer in the tool singularly.
A
abintx
Guest
mg ...
I went from the RCBS hand primer to the new Forster CO-AX primer. Once set up, you simply push down on the handle or lever until it stops. When it stops, you're seated all the way. I don't think it can get much simpler then that. I've included pictures below.
I went from the RCBS hand primer to the new Forster CO-AX primer. Once set up, you simply push down on the handle or lever until it stops. When it stops, you're seated all the way. I don't think it can get much simpler then that. I've included pictures below.
Attachments
Boyd Allen
Active member
And you know that seating primers to a uniform depth is important because? Seriously, I don't think that I have ever seen anyone who was loading at a short range Benchrest match (which would include virtually all of the competitors) seat primers any other way but by feel. This would include NBRSA record holders, and Hall of Fame members. Of course they could all be doing it wrong, or....just possibly seating by feel works just fine. Take your pick.
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
Boyd,
It just could be that some of those guys are the lucky ones who can really feel the primer seat & some aren't in the running because they only think that their seating is OK. Recently, I went over to a K & M dial gauge seater because the arthritis in my thumbs got so bad that I just knew that I was crushing some primers with my Sinclair tool because I had to use both thumbs on the bugger. When I shot over a chronograph, the spreads were distinctly worse than in the past.
With the K & M, spreads have dropped to teens & even to single digit in one case.
John
PS: Note that I don't shoot centrefirte benchrest - if that becomes an issue.
It just could be that some of those guys are the lucky ones who can really feel the primer seat & some aren't in the running because they only think that their seating is OK. Recently, I went over to a K & M dial gauge seater because the arthritis in my thumbs got so bad that I just knew that I was crushing some primers with my Sinclair tool because I had to use both thumbs on the bugger. When I shot over a chronograph, the spreads were distinctly worse than in the past.
With the K & M, spreads have dropped to teens & even to single digit in one case.
John
PS: Note that I don't shoot centrefirte benchrest - if that becomes an issue.
Boyd Allen
Active member
Good information....maybe I need a new toy. Better yet, I'll show this to my boss. He really likes to buy new toys, and likes long range hunting. We could do a test on one of his custom, target quality rifles. He really likes precision reloading. Currently, he is using a rotary annealer to deal with shoulder bump runout issues with Winchester 7mmWSM brass. (solved the problem) I'll have to look at the improvement in vertical that might be available, but I guess we should look at the ES that he is currently getting first. He charges cases with a Chargmaster, turns necks, trims meplats, and repoints.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I have often wondered];
I always use my primer pocket uniformer after depriming my cases and it seems to always take a bit of brass out of the bottom of the pockets; this is after having made them uniform during the case prep process. I use an RCBS Universal Hand priming tool now-a-day after having blown my left thumb up whilst using a Lee hand primer some years ago.
One notices while using the RCBS or the lee, because of the lack of much leverage, that some primers seat to the bottom of the pockets easily and some are seated with a lot of the ram travel left to go. Seating them to the end of the ram's travel requires the use of one's second hand.
This brings up the question: How are we getting consistent seating if we have to crush the heck out of some of our primers? I think this situation is masked when using a number of the other seaters that have more mechanical advntage.
Perhaps it makes no difference if some primers are crushed more then others but it runs counter to my logic. It makes me wonder if perhaps we should be measuring the length of our primer cups. Perhaps this condition lends itself to variations in crono numbers? If this situation does cause crono numbers to differ, what is the point of exactly measuring the depth primers are seated?
I always use my primer pocket uniformer after depriming my cases and it seems to always take a bit of brass out of the bottom of the pockets; this is after having made them uniform during the case prep process. I use an RCBS Universal Hand priming tool now-a-day after having blown my left thumb up whilst using a Lee hand primer some years ago.
One notices while using the RCBS or the lee, because of the lack of much leverage, that some primers seat to the bottom of the pockets easily and some are seated with a lot of the ram travel left to go. Seating them to the end of the ram's travel requires the use of one's second hand.
This brings up the question: How are we getting consistent seating if we have to crush the heck out of some of our primers? I think this situation is masked when using a number of the other seaters that have more mechanical advntage.
Perhaps it makes no difference if some primers are crushed more then others but it runs counter to my logic. It makes me wonder if perhaps we should be measuring the length of our primer cups. Perhaps this condition lends itself to variations in crono numbers? If this situation does cause crono numbers to differ, what is the point of exactly measuring the depth primers are seated?
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Pete, over the years I have noticed that a difference in primer diameter, just 0.0005" makes a big difference in seating pressure. A Wolf is about 0.0005" larger than a Fed 205GM. The WSR (Winchester) is about 0.00075" larger. But, the seating pressure, while harder in one of the larger primers, and using the Lapua 220 Russian example, all seat with the same pressure within like primers and the same lot of cases.
If you are getting noticeable variation in pressure within the same brass and within the same primers you may have other problems. They should all seat within the same pressure feel.
Primer crush does affect velocity. It can change 'boomyow' to 'click' in the extremes.
The K&M seater(with an indicator) is the only seater I'm aware of that leaves primers at the same CRUSH(whatever you choose for it).
It makes no difference if you uniform the pockets or not with this seater, as it's zero'd for EACH primer height to the pocket it will come to rest in.
I've tried it, and checked, you cannot do this by feel. Impossible..
Crush and height are different animals, and height is best handled through uniforming/culling.
During load development(after seating adjustments), I've adjusted primer crush and firing pin strike for lowest ES. I test this again when it's cold out.
For CCIs I've settled at 5thou crush, and Feds at 2thou. This has been reliable, hot or cold, in various guns.
This also accounts for the ~thou of creep that occurs within a week of seating in normal tightness pockets. If your pocket's are loose, it's probably a waste of time to set crush consistantly. It'll never hold.
So why doesn't it make a difference in BR?
Alot of things make no difference in BR.
They are compensated for with sighters or distance.
The K&M seater(with an indicator) is the only seater I'm aware of that leaves primers at the same CRUSH(whatever you choose for it).
It makes no difference if you uniform the pockets or not with this seater, as it's zero'd for EACH primer height to the pocket it will come to rest in.
I've tried it, and checked, you cannot do this by feel. Impossible..
Crush and height are different animals, and height is best handled through uniforming/culling.
During load development(after seating adjustments), I've adjusted primer crush and firing pin strike for lowest ES. I test this again when it's cold out.
For CCIs I've settled at 5thou crush, and Feds at 2thou. This has been reliable, hot or cold, in various guns.
This also accounts for the ~thou of creep that occurs within a week of seating in normal tightness pockets. If your pocket's are loose, it's probably a waste of time to set crush consistantly. It'll never hold.
So why doesn't it make a difference in BR?
Alot of things make no difference in BR.
They are compensated for with sighters or distance.
Last edited:
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I don' know
What the K&M dial reads but if it reads depth and some primers are thicker than others, how can that give one consisent crush?
What the K&M dial reads but if it reads depth and some primers are thicker than others, how can that give one consisent crush?
Pete Wass
Well-known member
My point exactly is
They SHOULD all seat with the same feel and deprh. I can'tbe the only one who notices this can I?
They SHOULD all seat with the same feel and deprh. I can'tbe the only one who notices this can I?
There is a bit of genius behind it.
In operation, the seating stem is taken to bottom in the case pocket. While in this condition, the primer to seat is set between the dial tip and a landing it indicates off. Then the dial is zero'd.
Now the primer is dropped off the land, the stem cleared of the case, and normal seating is performed with those 2 components measured.
During calibrated seating the dial at 0 means the primer has just touched the pocket bottom. Further seating is crush.
This operation is repeated each time, so it takes about twice as long as unmeasured seating.
I edited the above implication that uniform pockets don't matter.
It does, and is our best process toward consistant strike.
I haven't been uniforming Lapua or Norma brass, but I probably should.
In operation, the seating stem is taken to bottom in the case pocket. While in this condition, the primer to seat is set between the dial tip and a landing it indicates off. Then the dial is zero'd.
Now the primer is dropped off the land, the stem cleared of the case, and normal seating is performed with those 2 components measured.
During calibrated seating the dial at 0 means the primer has just touched the pocket bottom. Further seating is crush.
This operation is repeated each time, so it takes about twice as long as unmeasured seating.
I edited the above implication that uniform pockets don't matter.
It does, and is our best process toward consistant strike.
I haven't been uniforming Lapua or Norma brass, but I probably should.