What a group!!

B

bob hardy

Guest
I was at the range yesterday with my midshipman grandson and his mid friend to shoot some trap, pistol, and centerfire. The centerfire rifle is an original Ruger M77, 30-06, I bought in 1973. I gave this rifle, and a brand new Leupold 3x9/40 VX II, to my grandson for a HS graduation gift. I also gave him about 400 rds. of Bulgarian mil surp. ammo I bought about 15 years ago. It must have been about 50 years old when I bought it. The cardboard boxes were falling apart. After the mids shot a few, all of the shots were going about 2 o'clock, and I took over to confirm same before making scope adjustments. I then shot a 3 shot group at 100 yds that measures .4". This is with a std. Ruger hunting rifle and cheap ammo. I was amazed. That kind of accuracy just doesn't happen with a hunting rifle. The mids wondered why I was so excited. The bottom line is "that gun can shoot." If that had been done with a high $ brand new rifle in any of the shooting mags, it would have made a great story line for that mfr. I always knew that gun would shoot, but this was something special.
Bob
 
It's nice and it's a start but one 3 shot group is not conclusive.

With the same ammo and taking your time so you don't get the barrel too hot, try shooting 5 separate 5 shot groups and averaging them... or even 5 separate 3 shot groups for that matter.

If can keep the average under an inch then it is shooting quite well for a Ruger and factory ammo.

Just my thoughts...
 
Bob

bob hardy said:
I was at the range yesterday with my midshipman grandson and his mid friend to shoot some trap, pistol, and centerfire. The centerfire rifle is an original Ruger M77, 30-06, I bought in 1973. I gave this rifle, and a brand new Leupold 3x9/40 VX II, to my grandson for a HS graduation gift. I also gave him about 400 rds. of Bulgarian mil surp. ammo I bought about 15 years ago. It must have been about 50 years old when I bought it. The cardboard boxes were falling apart. After the mids shot a few, all of the shots were going about 2 o'clock, and I took over to confirm same before making scope adjustments. I then shot a 3 shot group at 100 yds that measures .4". This is with a std. Ruger hunting rifle and cheap ammo. I was amazed. That kind of accuracy just doesn't happen with a hunting rifle. The mids wondered why I was so excited. The bottom line is "that gun can shoot." If that had been done with a high $ brand new rifle in any of the shooting mags, it would have made a great story line for that mfr. I always knew that gun would shoot, but this was something special.
Bob
Click to expand...

I think that 3 shot group was conclusive. Don't change a thing. Savor that day with your Grandson and talk about that rifle and group forever. No reason to shoot another group and spoil things in my book. It don't get no better than that.

Later
Dave
 
Thanks Dave. That day will be special for my grandson and I as are all of the great times we have together. To the gloomy Canuck, the first 3 shots I took with that gun way back in '73 were covered with a nickel. That gun can shoot. I don't care if this doesn't meet your "standard", we're happy.
Bob
 
bob hardy said:
Thanks Dave. That day will be special for my grandson and I as are all of the great times we have together. To the gloomy Canuck, the first 3 shots I took with that gun way back in '73 were covered with a nickel. That gun can shoot. I don't care if this doesn't meet your "standard", we're happy.
Bob
Click to expand...

I'm not gloomy.. I have some great 3 shots groups too... I am not saying your experience or memories are not valid... Or that your rifle is not a great shooting rifle. Hang on to them. I am happy for you.

But you have come on to a short range Benchrest website where accuracy is measured in aggregates shot... not just an occasional 3 shot group. I was just stating that an aggregate would be a more definitive test.

I remember my last 3 shot group quite well... my hunting rifle.. already sighted in and fouled from the previous week. Just checking it before going on a hunting trip. I came into the range, one other fellow was there. We set up targets and I fired my first 3 shots into less than 1/2 inch on the center line 2 inches high... and then I left.

All those 3 shots proved was it was sighted where I wanted it and it shot very well. I never have "agged" that rifle either.
 
Dennis Sorensen said:
I'm not gloomy.. I have some great 3 shots groups too... I am not saying your experience or memories are not valid... Or that your rifle is not a great shooting rifle. Hang on to them. I am happy for you.

But you have come on to a short range Benchrest website where accuracy is measured in aggregates shot... not just an occasional 3 shot group. I was just stating that an aggregate would be a more definitive test.

I remember my last 3 shot group quite well... my hunting rifle.. already sighted in and fouled from the previous week. Just checking it before going on a hunting trip. I came into the range, one other fellow was there. We set up targets and I fired my first 3 shots into less than 1/2 inch on the center line 2 inches high... and then I left.

All those 3 shots proved was it was sighted where I wanted it and it shot very well. I never have "agged" that rifle either.
Click to expand...

Dennis, this is not only a short range benchrest website, there is a 600/1000 yard forum and factory/hybrid forum as well and last I checked this is General Discussion
 
My first comment was:
One 3 shot group is not conclusive.

... and I gave some suggestions... and stated:

... that an aggregate would be a more definitive test.

.. and repeated that again later...

I am not knocking or attacking the experience the family has had nor the memories they enjoy. I was only trying to point out a more definitive test of accuracy. I believe just about any rifle is capable of shooting a small 3 shot group on occasion. I know of one factory 700 that shot a .167" 3 shot group and it never came close to that again.

I'm sorry if I have offended anyone with my suggestions.
 
Listen to Dennis.

Yes, this is the General Discussion Forum, but, it is still Benchrest.com, with a capital BR.
 
degmon said:
Listen to Dennis.

Yes, this is the General Discussion Forum, but, it is still Benchrest.com, with a capital BR.
Click to expand...

who really gives a hoot whether its a capitol BR or not? and if its still benchrest.com, its still a general discussion forum, accuracy and firearms related. Is it that hard to let a guy talk of his day shooting? without testing and proving? its a old Ruger 77, old ammo, and a grandad and kids.
It sounds like fun to me.
 
In my opinion

there is nothing wrong with anyone talking about his experience in this general discussion forum. By the same token there is nothing wrong with anyone pointing out the obvious that a single 3 shot group does not determin a rifles accuracy. I have shot single 3 shot groups in the ones from my 25-08Improoved. That doesnt say that is the accuracy potential of the rifle, I would say it is more like between .500-.750 which is very accurate from a hunting rifle. But in this measurement I am counting each and every shot.

On the other hand I can totally relate to the nice experience of going out shooting having a quality time with family and friends. The group in question is no doubt exceptionally small, but it is just what it is a very nice 3 shot group.

BA
 
Hi Bob
That will make a great memory for both you and your grandson!
Way to go!
Kim
 
Dennis Sorensen said:
It's nice and it's a start but one 3 shot group is not conclusive.
Click to expand...

The latest VARMINT HUNTER magazine has a great article on analyzing group size based on the number of shots per group. It has a table of conversion factors for 3, 4 and 5-shot groups--if a 3-shot group measures "X" you can estimate the size of a 4 or 5-shot group, "Y." And it shows just how badly you can get misled by a single group (especially a 3-shot group) as an index to the average group size of a given rifle.

Dennis is right--one 3-shot group is not conclusive. In this case, instead of 0.4 inches it could have just as likely been 1.4 inches. But no one writes about those groups!
 
no gloom here...

Sounds like a good shootin ole' Ruger to me...nuthin like a lil' "general discussion"....grin....I too have a son in the Navy and cherish the moments we have together.....and OBTW...listen to Ron Tilley...he is a seasoned NBRSA "B"enchrest shooter who has competed in many organized "B"enchrest events ,,and has had his targets measured by event officials for him,and knows you dont have to have thousands of rounds of load development to proove how good a 30-06 shoots ....
I aplaud the info....when you find a combo that shoots it makes the day worth while....but bein with sons/grandsons makes the day perfect....Have a great day ....Roger (NBRSA competitor too ...but alas not very special)
 
How did the Acid Test become

5 shots? Why not 6 or 7, even 10 ? The more shots fired the more oportunity for shooter error, aye? I think we should decide right here and now that THE standard for Factory rifles is 3 shots and then we will have a fair standard for them to shoot at. Whadda ya think?

Gotta have FUN during the Winter :D
 
New factory accuracy standard

Yeah, 3-shot group with the added caveat : it must consistently shoot the group size claimed ( let's say it all together now).............."ALL DAY LONG.":D
 
Amen Brother

LHSmith said:
Yeah, 3-shot group with the added caveat : it must consistently shoot the group size claimed ( let's say it all together now).............."ALL DAY LONG.":D
Click to expand...

The idea that 5 shots is any kind of test or THE standard is only a figment of our imagination. We can make any Standard we want. This IS AMERICA, after all!
 
even a blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn

bob hardy said:
I The centerfire rifle is an original Ruger M77, 30-06, I bought in 1973. I then shot a 3 shot group at 100 yds that measures .4". This is with a std. Ruger hunting rifle and cheap ammo. I was amazed. That kind of accuracy just doesn't happen with a hunting rifle. The mids wondered why I was so excited. The bottom line is "that gun can shoot."
Click to expand...

Any functioning firearm with proper ammo "can shoot". How well is the question. That question remains for your rifle, unless you think one three-round group is conclusive. :rolleyes:

That kind of accuracy happens regularly with a hunting rifle. Probably once in every couple of dozen groups or so. Such regularity doesn't cut it for some shooters. That's their prerogative, as it is yours to be thrilled about such an occasion.
 
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