water in the bore LOL

H

Hambone

Guest
Apparently after all the bulls crap nonsense about the impossible to achieve stopped muzzles, non existent parallel nodes, relaxed bolts, stressed actions etc the mistaken self proclaimed inventor of the MD says we now have the water in the bore. I'm not sure if that has any undue affect on vertical locking lugs. ROTFPMSL

If we didn't know better we would swear that it was all part of a Monty Python script about some bizarre alternative world where people talked out of their ass's. Jim Carrey has never been this funny...
 
Hambone said:
Apparently after all the bulls crap nonsense about the impossible to achieve stopped muzzles, non existent parallel nodes, relaxed bolts, stressed actions etc the mistaken self proclaimed inventor of the MD says we now have the water in the bore. I'm not sure if that has any undue affect on vertical locking lugs. ROTFPMSL

If we didn't know better we would swear that it was all part of a Monty Python script about some bizarre alternative world where people talked out of their ass's. Jim Carrey has never been this funny...
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I wouldn't laugh too hard at that point Hambone. Most of the combustion products do combine Hydrogen and Oxygen - forming water vapor - that will condense on any surface cooler than 212°F - and I'm pretty sure that the bore of a rifle barrel cools well below that shortly after the bullet leaves. It does take some time for all the remaining vapor to come into contact with the bore though.
The man knows how to do what he does, and he does it well, in spite of his lack of scientific backing. He may have some of his theories wrong, but his rifles generally shoot.
 
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Speaking of Water in the bore; I shot in a Centerfire match this summer on a very damp and muggy day. I noticed that there was black sludge sort of stuck to the crown face of the barrel. It readily wiped off so this made me conclude that, yes, barrels accumulate condensation; in this case, quite severely so.
 
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Hammy, you could make a killing as a reverse indicator. Here's an experiment even one with challanged abilities can perform. Next time you shoot, run 15-20 rounds down the bore then ASAP run a patch through. Touch patch to lips....wet isn't it. You should be charged for lessons.
 
Hambone

Hambone said:
Apparently after all the bulls crap nonsense about the impossible to achieve stopped muzzles, non existent parallel nodes, relaxed bolts, stressed actions etc the mistaken self proclaimed inventor of the MD says we now have the water in the bore. I'm not sure if that has any undue affect on vertical locking lugs. ROTFPMSL

If we didn't know better we would swear that it was all part of a Monty Python script about some bizarre alternative world where people talked out of their ass's. Jim Carrey has never been this funny...
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Terrence,
People tried to bust Bill's chops on this a few years ago. It backfired on them. Check out what Vibe said again, he is right about the vapor. JGEE posts here some. I know that on another forum on RFC, he posted pics he had taken while using his borescope. The pics showed the water droplets. It isn't even arguable. I don't know if he was aware that Bill had talked about condensation in the bore or not.

Lots of folks want to bash anything Bill says. They almost never have the character to apologize for the bashing when they are proven wrong. I am going to surprise you. I think you do have the character to apologize when proven wrong.

If I can get caught up on some necessary things, I will see if I can find JGEE's (Joe is his name) post with the pics of the water in the bore. The irony is that he isn't a Calfee fan. He may have made his discovery on his own, unaware that Bill had discovered it, too. Sadly, there were those who tried to bash Joe about this, if I remember right. Can't say for sure til I read the posts again. At any rate, I will try to find the pics for you in a day or few.

Take care,

Greg
 
Actually, I think that most of the flack has been over what words he chose to describe what he has observed. If he had simply written that when he did a particular thing, this is what happened, and that his reason for doing a particular thing was thus and thus result, with out all of the parallel node and stopped muzzle stuff, I think that about 98% of the flack would have never happened. Also, just because someone is right about 99 things does not mean that he is right about the hundredth, but it does mean that you should listen very carefully, and think a lot before discounting what has been said.
 
tim said:
Hammy, you could make a killing as a reverse indicator. Here's an experiment even one with challanged abilities can perform. Next time you shoot, run 15-20 rounds down the bore then ASAP run a patch through. Touch patch to lips....wet isn't it. You should be charged for lessons.
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Timbo

I'll leave the touching of lips to unsavoury things to you. Wet patches, ass's .You seem to enjoy that sort of thing. Pucker up nice now. LOL
 
Dave

I don't deny he has a cult following and some of what he builds in the right hands wins a match here and there. But then would that be any different for any other RFBR gun builder who had spent his last 35 years doing just one thing? I suspect not. I accept that what we shoot produces water vapour. But it is of such insignificant amounts to have no bearing on performance under normal circumstances. It just might if a match was shot in 90/90 climate conditions but when ever does that happen?

Vibe said:
I wouldn't laugh too hard at that point Hambone. Most of the combustion products do combine Hydrogen and Oxygen - forming water vapor - that will condense on any surface cooler than 212°F - and I'm pretty sure that the bore of a rifle barrel cools well below that shortly after the bullet leaves. It does take some time for all the remaining vapor to come into contact with the bore though.
The man knows how to do what he does, and he does it well, in spite of his lack of scientific backing. He may have some of his theories wrong, but his rifles generally shoot.
Click to expand...
 
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404tbang said:
Terrence,
People tried to bust Bill's chops on this a few years ago. It backfired on them. Check out what Vibe said again, he is right about the vapor. JGEE posts here some. I know that on another forum on RFC, he posted pics he had taken while using his borescope. The pics showed the water droplets. It isn't even arguable. I don't know if he was aware that Bill had talked about condensation in the bore or not.

Lots of folks want to bash anything Bill says. They almost never have the character to apologize for the bashing when they are proven wrong. I am going to surprise you. I think you do have the character to apologize when proven wrong.

If I can get caught up on some necessary things, I will see if I can find JGEE's (Joe is his name) post with the pics of the water in the bore. The irony is that he isn't a Calfee fan. He may have made his discovery on his own, unaware that Bill had discovered it, too. Sadly, there were those who tried to bash Joe about this, if I remember right. Can't say for sure til I read the posts again. At any rate, I will try to find the pics for you in a day or few.

Take care,

Greg
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Greg

I'm always happy to apologise when I'm wrong. Out of curiosity does Bill ever admit he's wrong? If you can post those links I'm be sure to read them.
 
Boyd Allen said:
Actually, I think that most of the flack has been over what words he chose to describe what he has observed. If he had simply written that when he did a particular thing, this is what happened, and that his reason for doing a particular thing was thus and thus result, with out all of the parallel node and stopped muzzle stuff, I think that about 98% of the flack would have never happened. Also, just because someone is right about 99 things does not mean that he is right about the hundredth, but it does mean that you should listen very carefully, and think a lot before discounting what has been said.
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I agree 100%. But when the bulls crap is stacked up so high its hard to take any of it seriously.

Still its got him his own forum. provided by a few of the dedicated followers.
 
Hambone said:
Dave

I don't deny he has a cult following and some of what he builds in the right hands wins a match here and there.
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I'm fairly confident that I'm not included in the cult roster. Or in just about anyones guess of who those members might be. :D

Hambone said:
B I accept that what we shoot produces water vapour. But it is of such insignificant amounts to have no bearing on performance under normal circumstances. It just might if a match was shot in 90/90 climate conditions but when ever does that happen?
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Sorry. I might have agreed with you a decade ago - but the shoot a few, wait a while and shoot another test is a bit too consistent to totally discount. It does make sense that the condensing steam affects the wax lube in the bore over time. Ever see a ring on your finely waxed furniture under a sweating tea glass? Wax does not completely repel water - hot water even less so. I don't believe it because Bill said so, I have come to believe it because it's repeatable. And because I have no other explanation that makes more sense.
 
OK - Bill Calfee concepts can surely be discussed here - but not Bill Calfee. It's a fine line I'm aware but try to grasp what I'm sayin'.
 
who me?

Vibe said:
I'm fairly confident that I'm not included in the cult roster. Or in just about anyones guess of who those members might be. :D
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I'm pretty sure you're not on the guest list, I doubt I ever will be either. I'm sure Slick Willy could put some names in the hat. He seems to keep tabs on folks in either camp better than most.


Vibe said:
Sorry. I might have agreed with you a decade ago - but the shoot a few, wait a while and shoot another test is a bit too consistent to totally discount. It does make sense that the condensing steam affects the wax lube in the bore over time. Ever see a ring on your finely waxed furniture under a sweating tea glass? Wax does not completely repel water - hot water even less so. I don't believe it because Bill said so, I have come to believe it because it's repeatable. And because I have no other explanation that makes more sense.
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Thats OK. If you think there's some science behind it I'm happy to go along. Although I'm not convinced that any "condensation" in a rimfire bore is that hot.I also believe that under 99% of standard shooting conditions any "condensation" that might be there is of insufficient quantity to have any effect, be it negative or positive. If it did the position guys with their long, long barrels would have been crawling all over it by now.

I just wanted to add. I find your node thread on RA brill.
 
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Wilbur said:
OK - Bill Calfee concepts can surely be discussed here - but not Bill Calfee. It's a fine line I'm aware but try to grasp what I'm sayin'.
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Wilbur:

Just so that I do not cross into forbidden territory, has Bill Calfee been banned from this website and is mentioning his name against proper ediquette..

Thanks

Dave
 
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