Was anyone here aware that...

Guy Pike,
I have seen them burn before also. Just like anything else, if you don't maintenance them , you have trouble. Those NOS Stewart Warners could be worth a bunch now to the right people.
Butch
 
Concerning fuel for cars and trucks, I can't understand why there isn't more production of diesel powered vehicles. The use of bio-diesel adds considerate competition to pricing on light sweet crude . I read some research about bio-diesel and it is amazing the amount of raw products this fuel can be refined from. Waste oil, Corn, Soybeans, Algae, Peanuts and others; might make farming a viable career again.

Diesels are powerful and have a very long service life. They are dirty but the technology already exists for converters, particulate chambers with burn cycles to clean the soot from filter.

As for the health of capitalism, we are already on our way down that slippery slope. Examples: AIG, Merrill, Bank of America, Citi Group, US Airways, United, Delta, Fannie & Freddie, GM, Ford, Chrysler, This list could go on and on...
Stay tuned I wouldn't be surprised to see big oil cry poor and reference the proportional drop in prices this year as a giant killer that is putting them in jeopardy. Stick around, lets just see who comes to the trough ...Capitalism and free market my Butt!!!

This taxpayer is sick of corporate wellfare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Diesels I believe were actually designed to run on the now "bio-diesel" fuels back in the day. Big oil saw this and had to have their foot in it.

Just wait till we have to propose a stimulus package to bail out the oil companies :(
 
On my MSN home page today, AT LAST a "mainstream media" article that gets some facts right :D

( I say "some of the facts" because, alas, the footer under the pic still buys into the "roughly 105 mpg" misrepresentation. And the idea that a car will go 40 miles on 80 cents worth of electricity is not completely accurate. Some cars will also go 40mi on 80 cents worth of gas.... under the right conditions. Ask the hypermilers. but coming BACK they may well only do 20mpg. If only we all lived where it was downhill both ways......)

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/land...arch&topart=newcarresearch&icid=684&GT1=22018

Sorry all you electric car guys....moving mass takes fuel. Period.

Anyway, decent article IMO.

al
 
michaelb said:
Concerning fuel for cars and trucks, I can't understand why there isn't more production of diesel powered vehicles. The use of bio-diesel adds considerate competition to pricing on light sweet crude . I read some research about bio-diesel and it is amazing the amount of raw products this fuel can be refined from. Waste oil, Corn, Soybeans, Algae, Peanuts and others; might make farming a viable career again.
Click to expand...
You might find that the issue is the same as for ethanol. Production can only be achieved commercially when the vegetable product is diverted from a less rewarding option. Ethanol is said to be viable only because of government subsidy, otherwise the product used (corn, generally) would be more viable as a food crop. Considering we seem not to produce enough food now to support to the world population, there's a certain moral conundrum if we crop for fuel by that means. South Africa used sunflower oil for farm machinery during the years of commercial isolation of necessity but have reverted to mainstream since.

Here in Australia, there was once an expectation that ethanol would be distilled from sugar cane waste. As it turns out, it's more commercially useful either as a fuel for sugar refinaries or as stock food & market gardening products.

michaelb said:
Diesels are powerful and have a very long service life. They are dirty but the technology already exists for converters, particulate chambers with burn cycles to clean the soot from filter.
Click to expand...
I run a "clean" VW diesel myself & pay with marginally reduced economy. I think that you will find that state of the art particulate filtration & other diesel cleansing devices don't function with bio. It's a different product & clogs current filtration devices - not that you wouldn't expect the issue to be solved at some future time.
 
The difference in cost

between the diesel and gas engine also plays a big role. With diesel fuel costs at a buck more per gallon than unleaded, the initial cost of the diesel engine, the cost of oil changes, etc. etc. etc, you have to keep that diesel powered vehicle for a very, very long time just to pay for for the difference in cost.
 
Tim in Tx: all of the manufacturers know how to get incredible miles per gallon but will not due to the oil companies having locked in all patents to their advantage,i am talking 200 mpg in a large v8,i have wittnessed it .it is possible simply by vaporizing gasoline 100%.it has been done ,hcs are reduced to near zero,the main problem is how to vaporize the gas safely,heat was used at the time ,ultrasound was next, then the threats came and the whole project was shut down.the oil companies are the new mafia.there has been people never heard from again on this subject. tim in tx
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you also believe that aliens from another planet crashed in Roswell, and that Bigfoot runs loose in the woods, and Nessie swims in Scotland?

Of the three myths cited and yours, I think yours has the least credibility.
 
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michaelb said:
Concerning fuel for cars and trucks, I can't understand why there isn't more production of diesel powered vehicles. The use of bio-diesel adds considerate competition to pricing on light sweet crude . I read some research about bio-diesel and it is amazing the amount of raw products this fuel can be refined from. Waste oil, Corn, Soybeans, Algae, Peanuts and others; might make farming a viable career again.
Click to expand...
The reason Michael is that Diesel has far greater emissions than does gas. Or at least that's what we're told. This is why it's near impossible to get a VW Diesel here in the states. According to our Govt, the Diesels are not clean enough.

Al, Great article above. The one about Electric, myth or reality. It pretty much avoids taking either side in the issue and yes, that thing there is incredibly expensive. If you were to watch this video I recommended above, it mentions there that the plug in hybrid is the natural choice of cars to go into production, and of course, now, it'll happen.

I wasn't aware of how far back they were producing these animals was all and with my driving habits, other than going to the shooting range, I have no trouble with a car that goes even 40 miles on a charge.

The other thing nobody here is considering is that if you go to work and plug the car in there, you can get a nice employee theft perk outa the deal! Lol. I bet lots of companies would do this just cause they pay so much less per Kwh for electric, and just write it off as a "benefit"
 
With current [ and near term future ] technology an electric vehicle can be nothing more than a specialized, short range, warm weather, flat terrain :LOL: transportation appliance to be owned by an EV enthusiast who also owns an infernal combustion powered vehicle for longer drives [ or who would rent a car for these needs ].

Trying to have 100+ mile dependable range plus all the bells and whistles we are used is counter to the proper application of Epower, imo. Make a 50 mile range, 75mph commuter for $10 or $12K and you might see some sales. Simple, cheap motor and drivetrain when compared to IC. Simple electronic motor controls and battery monitoring when compared to IC FI, Ign, electronic trans controls, etc. Lead acid or Nickle based batts.
 
I think there is.......

a newer VW Diesel out there, supposed to get 150MPG, but not allowed here, too "dirty"! Yeah, right, like the 1693TA CAT, & all its varients were, w/each shift under a load, you'd only see a light puff of smoke, nothing thick, you'd have to actually LOOK for it to see it, the lovely EPA legislated it off the road while others out there were smoking their a**es off. Yup!! Better mousetrap free marketry!! Best gu'mint munny kin' by!! For a look at new ideas, look at what some foul-ball FU kids did w/a hybrid car they built at West Philly High. I spoke to their sponsor....not ONE automaker came to see them, not one!!! And they put together a hybrid that'd go 0-60 in 3.8 & get 50-60MPG!!! The future.....well, now Fiskers Auto is putting out something similar, at 40K a pop! The future of electric?? Weeeell, look at Rasertech, except....Dick Carlucci of the Carlyle Group is involved, another insider, like ol' Ted Shakley, (we get it, or NOBODY gets it). Talk about free markets, didn't a guy named TUCKER believe in that VERY same thing?????
Hey!! Dennis, didja look into National City Lines, yet???? What's keepin' ya?? Cya.
 
brian roberts said:
a newer VW Diesel out there, supposed to get 150MPG, but not allowed here, too "dirty"! Yeah, right, like the 1693TA CAT, & all its varients were, w/each shift under a load, you'd only see a light puff of smoke, nothing thick, you'd have to actually LOOK for it to see it, the lovely EPA legislated it off the road while others out there were smoking their a**es off. Yup!! Better mousetrap free marketry!! Best gu'mint munny kin' by!! For a look at new ideas, look at what some foul-ball FU kids did w/a hybrid car they built at West Philly High. I spoke to their sponsor....not ONE automaker came to see them, not one!!! And they put together a hybrid that'd go 0-60 in 3.8 & get 50-60MPG!!! The future.....well, now Fiskers Auto is putting out something similar, at 40K a pop! The future of electric?? Weeeell, look at Rasertech, except....Dick Carlucci of the Carlyle Group is involved, another insider, like ol' Ted Shakley, (we get it, or NOBODY gets it). Talk about free markets, didn't a guy named TUCKER believe in that VERY same thing?????
Hey!! Dennis, didja look into National City Lines, yet???? What's keepin' ya?? Cya.
Click to expand...

Where's the linky to the FU kids? At least I'd know what you were talking about.......

As far as the "150mpg but too dirty" motors............ I can't get with you on that one A'tall. Gener'ly more mpg means MORE efficient, can't help but be.

al
 
But guess what......

it ain't available here...I think its the new Rabbit. On the kids, I'd look for something like: West Philly High Hybrid or something like that, I saw them on 60 Minutes a year or so ago, then they were on Jay Leno's show a month or so after that. There's an issue of JL's Garage coming up in Dec. I think, on CRYO SMAKDOWN!!! Nope, actually on PROPER cryogenic processing, & the benefits thereof.
 
The new VW and Mercedes diesels are available here, even in CA I believe, but they sell so many diesels in Europe that we only get the leftovers. I'd considered a diesel Jetta until gas prices went down. Regular unleaded is under $1.75/gal here, but diesel is nearly a dollar more. A diesel would have to get more than 50% better mileage than the gas engine which it doesn't. Most Americans in the past have not been interested in noisy, smelly, underpowered diesel engined cars either. The new diesels are a lot quieter and more powerful than the old ones.

The "environmentalists" who are pushing ethanol on us generally don't like diesels either, don't bother 'em with modern technology like common rail, direct injection, turbocharged diesels they ain't interested. They're also not interested in turning the abundant coal in Montana and Wyoming into liquid fuels either. I'd be for just about anything that would give the oil people in the Middle East and Venezuela a large glowing moon.... :eek::D:D
 
brian roberts said:
it ain't available here...I think its the new Rabbit. On the kids, I'd look for something like: West Philly High Hybrid or something like that, I saw them on 60 Minutes a year or so ago, then they were on Jay Leno's show a month or so after that. There's an issue of JL's Garage coming up in Dec. I think, on CRYO SMAKDOWN!!! Nope, actually on PROPER cryogenic processing, & the benefits thereof.
Click to expand...

Ohhh, you mean THIS:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/0...-phillys-hybrid-attack-makes-other-high-scho/

I guess if you find this junk 'meaningful' then you've made your point. :confused:

al
 
My dad has the Jetta TDI and the LOML has the gasser, she gets 25-28 he gets 48-52 or better since he nurses it, 300-310 per fillup, or 680-700 per fillup, I think a buck a gal more is worth it.
 
Actually, Al......

NO......IIRC it was TWO years, or so, ago; and they used a modified V-8!! But I spoke w/Mr. Hauger(HAW-ger) back around 2006, these kids have been able to accomplish quite a bit. Hey, if GM, Chrysler, even Saturn, can't seem to do it, then maybe they OUGHT to take a look at what these kids are capable of; after all, with their money, & the ingenuity of these kids, people would buy something like this, there are people who want to drive something w/enough power to get out of its own way, & it can obviously be put on any platform desired, Roadster; SUV; Van; or Pickup. The REAL question is: In light of the needed BAIL-OUT, why don't the big three put their remaining money where their mouths are & bring out something GOOD?? There have been people UNsatisfied w/their products since the 60s, & its continued to the present day, this is why people have voted w/their pocketbooks. As one caller said on a talk show"......if the heads of the big 3 wanted to see what people wanted in a car, let them get in a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, they'd only have to drive it AROUND THE BLOCK!!!!!!! to see the difference!!" Do you know that now, if you call a GM dealership & ask for a part number, they have been instructed BY CORPORATE, NOT to give you that number, "...because we know you'll get it cheaper(or better)somewhere else." , But hey! Maybe the auto industry HAS to die in this country, maybe, just maybe, that has to happen, after all, it'll only hurt you & me, not the "Golden Parachutists", Right?? DO-do DO-do DO-do DO-do DO-do "....Picture if you may, a tired commuter about to experience......"
 
brian roberts said:
NO......IIRC it was TWO years, or so, ago; and they used a modified V-8!! But I spoke w/Mr. Hauger(HAW-ger) back around 2006, these kids have been able to accomplish quite a bit. Hey, if GM, Chrysler, even Saturn, can't seem to do it, then maybe they OUGHT to take a look at what these kids are capable of; after all, with their money, & the ingenuity of these kids, people would buy something like this, there are people who want to drive something w/enough power to get out of its own way, & it can obviously be put on any platform desired, Roadster; SUV; Van; or Pickup. The REAL question is: In light of the needed BAIL-OUT, why don't the big three put their remaining money where their mouths are & bring out something GOOD?? There have been people UNsatisfied w/their products since the 60s, & its continued to the present day, this is why people have voted w/their pocketbooks. As one caller said on a talk show"......if the heads of the big 3 wanted to see what people wanted in a car, let them get in a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, they'd only have to drive it AROUND THE BLOCK!!!!!!! to see the difference!!" Do you know that now, if you call a GM dealership & ask for a part number, they have been instructed BY CORPORATE, NOT to give you that number, "...because we know you'll get it cheaper(or better)somewhere else." , But hey! Maybe the auto industry HAS to die in this country, maybe, just maybe, that has to happen, after all, it'll only hurt you & me, not the "Golden Parachutists", Right?? DO-do DO-do DO-do DO-do DO-do "....Picture if you may, a tired commuter about to experience......"
Click to expand...


Brian......we're so bloody far apart here that I can't even BEGIN to answer this post! :):)

It's thinking like this that makes me understand that We The People REALLY DID elect Obama............we really did, no chicanery involved.

just WOW......

:)

al
 
I read this whole thread and I can't recall a single informed opinion in the whole mess. I heard what people had read and what people supposed and lots of suspicions and even some conspiracy theories.

The info about the ev1 was incorrect. They did not do 0-60 in under 4 seconds or charge to 85% in an hour.

The problem with thermal efficiencies is not due to incomplete combustion. The energy losses range from the percentage of energy converted to heat all the way to mechanical friction and the inherent inefficiency of the otto cycle engine. The otto cycle is good at producing low end torque but does so at the expense of overall thermal efficiency. The atkinson cycle is more efficient but has less power at low rpms. That is why they use a version of the atkinson cycle engine in the prius where the anemic low end power curve is supplemented by the electric motor that performs well at low rpms.

The auto industry has improved on the efficiency of their engines continuously for the last 3 decades but their fleets average almost the same mileage until recently. The improvements have been used to get more power, speed and vehicle size from the same gallon of gas. We are to blame for demanding 0-60 in 6 seconds or a suburban sized vehicle in every driveway.

The batteries that are available today are way beyond what we had in 2005. The new generation of LiOn batteries will make fully electric vehicles common and a joy to own. Charging them at night up to a certain number of vehicles will simply use the excess generation capacity that we have at night. This will help the power companies to balance the grid, especially if it is done with the latest generation of power demand controllers that allow the power companies to deliver certain circuits power only when it is available. That way you could plug the car in when you got home and the power company could decide when it supplied the power as long as it supplied x amount of Kwh by y time at no greater than z rate.

That technology is very close in some parts of the country and in the meantime you could just use a timer to charge the car between 2 and 4am or whatever the power company recommended. Charging a lower rate at night, as is done in many areas would encourage the use of these timers.

Electric vehicles could also and do use towable generators to extend their range. Though this would not be as efficient as a gas car, but it would make the electric vehicle more versatile and the generators could be rentable for the odd long trip or a vehicle with a gas engine could be rented for these rare times.

I drive a prius and average in the mid 50s on my daily 31 mile commute. On the highway at 80 mph and loaded down with people and gear, I only get 41 mpg. I enjoy it much more than the f150s I drove for 20+ years. I have 111,000 miles on the car with no problems whatsoever and have saved around 13500$ so far in fuel costs. The car will more than pay for itself in fuel savings. Many of my conservative friends are now driving them. After taking Arnold Jewell to CO for a prairie dog hunt last May, he went from calling it my toy car, to falling in love with it and planning a purchase of one in 2009.

The best reason among the many, to switch to electric vehicles is because it will allow for more flexibility in supplying the fuel source for our vehicle fleet. Wind, solar, nuclear, coal, and certain biofuels can relieve the strain on oil and natural gas. A further advantage of central generation is the ability to to sequester carbon, more effectively scrub the emissions, and improve efficiency by utilizing co-generation. This is a process that captures the waste heat from electrical generation to provide heat for buildings and industry. The japanese use this process to achieve greater than 50% efficiency which is far greater than what can be achieved by internal combustion engines.

This discussion is very complex and there are many responses available to what I have said here. There are many great sites on the internet where the worlds experts freely share their knowledge. Those sites are a terrible place to discuss the importance of neck turning to accuracy on a factory chamber.

This is the site for those discussions. This thread is not related to guns, accuracy, or benchrest. It is more appropriate that it be moved to the hidden section for political debate. That's what it is.
 
Brian,
Where did you get that crap about GM and their part numbers?? I deal with their part numbers on a daily basis and it makes it easier for both the GM parts guys and myself. I have all of it on my shop DVDs also.
Perhaps you have had to much vino. I have heard of all this stuff about the oil companies and car companies doing this and that until I could just puke! Seems this whole world is a conspiracy and I am too dumb to know it. Being in the car business for 40 years I have seen my customers try every one of the magic potions. Guess what, they ain't no magic except in the pockets of the people that market them.
Butch
 
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