Was anyone here aware that...

4

4Mesh

Guest
GM in the 90's built an electric car that worked?

I was not.

This thing was much more affordable than the current vehicles we drive today.

Could be charged 85% in 1 hour. (From a 110 outlet)

Had batteries that outlived the vehicle.

Did 0-60 in 3.8 seconds!

Had virtually no parts which required maintenance.

Had a range of > 100 miles (some later versions over 200 miles) per charge.

Even powered by coal fired electric plants, made 60% less emissions than current equivalant cars.

Oh, and they could make electric versions of all sorts of vehicles, not just little tiny matchboxes.

Look on Netflix for "Who Killed The Electric Car". It's a great documentary. Not only GM, but Honda, Toyota, Ford, Chrysler, all the big names, not only removed these cars from service, but shredded them to make certain there was no trace they existed.

I drive 11 miles to work each day and I think I could drive one of these! Especially one that would 0-60 as fast or faster than most Vettes!

Oh, and the battery technology rights were bought by.... none other than, Chevron...
 
yep the EV-1. big oil sure did away with that one fast. thanks G. B.
 
The battery technology has never been and still is not good enough for an electric car to survive... http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658544_1658535,00.html

Locally the modern gas/electric hybrids are a flop as well.

The thought that the technology was there and an oil company bought the rights and then stopped production is ridiculous... as ridiculous as the old story about 100 mpg carburetors that oil companies bought the rights to and then never produced.

Sorry to be so blunt but facts are facts and urban legends are fiction.
 
Gotta agree with Dennis. Batteries are improving all the time, and if a battery from 15 years ago was better than current Li-ion batteries someone would have been using it in cordless power tools. They didn't. The documentary sounds like the work of a Michael Moore acolyte to me.

I'm not a big fan of the oil companies, why is diesel around here running a buck gallon more than regular unleaded (40-50% more), for instance. But a car company that could sell a car that got double the fuel mileage of the others for even a higher price would be, and the licensee for whatever patents were used would be grinning all the way to the bank. Well, maybe the mattress the way the banks are doing now. :eek:
 
Took some pics of my siberian husky two weekends ago when the temp was in the 20's and was outside maybe 10 minutes or less and the red lights went off on my digital camera. I thought the battery died. Took the camera in the house and it dawned on me that the battery maybe just got cold. So as I sat here on the computer I put the battery between my leg and the chair and basically sat on it,after a few minutes I stuck it back in the camera and the camera worked just fine. That got me to thinking about what would happen if one owned a GM Volt and it sat in the parking lot at work in zero temps for 8 hours till I was done with work. I would not be going home in my Volt!

Tom
 
Tio, you need to move to CA or FL.... Of course the husky wouldn't like it, but you NEED a Volt.:D
 
Well, I don't know what percentage of the population lives where it get's to -20f, but, it's not very high. I live in Pennsylvania, and while it does get cold here, it's not like my car won't start or even complains. Go 3 hours south of here and sub zero temps are virtually unheard of.

It's not to say this is for everyone, but, If I could use one 9 months out of the year it'd suit me.

Dennis, these were leased and used till the lease ran out by many, many people. The cars were taken back with no option to buy, and no lease renewal. They weren't fiction.

PS. An electric motor generates a lot more power per input than does a gas motor. Example, a 1.5hp air compressor that makes the same CFM than a 12hp gas portable. When all the input power is used for physical motion rather than to generate heat, you don't need near as much input power.

Rent the video.
 
Chevrolet

Back around 1984, a friend of mine had a Chevy Sprint (or something like that) that got 52 miles to the gallon while driving on the freeway. If I remember correctly, the car was made by Suzuki. It was small and didn't have much power, it was a three cylinder. What is the best mileage car today?
 
AVanGorder,

I think that car was replaced with the Saturn Sky. It's a itty bitty little two seater thing about the size of a Miata and get's EIGHTEEN miles to the gallon city, 24 Highway. That's with a 2.2 Litre 4 cyl engine.

When looking at the specs for this thing, I thought it must have a built in leak to use that much gas.

AHhh haaa. I stand corrected. They musta squeezed some more economy out of it. Now it's rated at 19/25 :D The 09 has a 2.4L, not a 2.2. And the Turbo version at 260hp is a 2.0L, not a 2.2 as was the case in 08. It get's much better fuel economy where in 08, the two were identical. Seems they must be working on making them use less gas nowadays cause the price went up.

Still obscene.

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/vehicles/sky/overview.jsp

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/vehicles/sky/pricing.jsp

My LT1 Forumla 5.7L V8 get's exactly this mileage and it's ready for the boneyard.
 
4Mesh said:
Dennis, these were leased and used till the lease ran out by many, many people. The cars were taken back with no option to buy, and no lease renewal. They weren't fiction.
Click to expand...

I am not saying the cars or the attempt to make them work successfully is fiction... what is fiction is the "bought out by the gas companies" story... they cars were called back while they were still operative... it looks much better than if they were all out there when the batteries died... which they would have.

The problem has always been the batteries... very expensive, heavy, an actually short lifespan with a very expensive replacement cost.

Electric power has fantastic torque at all speeds... if they ever are able to make an inexpensive light high capacity long life battery with a power grid able to supply enough power to recharge millions of them, then electric cars may be successful. Think of the black outs that may occur...
 
1950-60

I ownen a little but practicle Renault, that got 35 mph on the hiway and a 28 in town. The mileage hasn't gotten better in 50 years, with new technology. A 54, V8 Ford Crestline that got 24MPG on the highway, don't know about the city, because I comuted 100 miles RT everday. Makes you wonder.
 
chevy

Had a guy at work who leased an all electric chevy in the late 90s.He commuted about 60 mi. a day,the car was unreliable, sometimes it wouldn't make it to work.Chevy said it had battery problems he turned it back in because you couldn't buy it,which worked out well for him.We live in Ca. so it wasn't to cold.

Rudy Manuel
 
Thank you Dennis :)

I was just about to get all political again there! :D

al


BTW I remember going to a gunshow with a buddy of mine in about '83. Two of us and 20-30 guns-n-stuff.......Volkswagen, diesel loaf (I think it was called the Vanagon??) and we got over 40mpg. This rig would get up to 52MPG under the right conditions. What I remember most was that driving it was kinda' like flying a starship, just as you got up to speed you'd be flipping over and decelerating for your next change of direction. This thing was AGONIZINGLY slow unless you drove tandem dump trucks for a living. Getting onto I-35 was just gut-wrenching, two miles in the breakdown lane looking for a merge....

Anyway, no secrets here, it just had a motorcycle motor bungee'd into a van chassis.

They'd never pass safety/pollution standards today, the REAL reason that cars are getting less mileage than they once were, govt mandates.

al


BTW about the batteries. I lived in MN for 10-12yrs, I remember all the garbage about "oil stiffening up" and "engines tightening up" in cold weather. "Engines won't crank in the cold because they're so bloomin' stiff"..........Block heaters, tank heaters, rad heaters, special oils, tarps and lanterns and heaters Oh-My.

What a CROCK!

Just before I moved away battery blankets began to be used. Holy COW!!! That motor just cranked like summah'time eh!

So the last few cold country trips we've taken (with our warm-weather west-coast cars.... no plug-ins :) ) I've just gotten into the habit of taking the battery inside overnight.

Hmmmmmmm, car cranks over just like home. At 35 below. BTW, when you live where it actually gets cold, like 35-50below........ even diesels are not fun to own.

This brings me to another fun observation. Out here in yupster country you can't hardly find a place to park for all of the hiked up diesel 4X4's all cross-jacked into the parking lots....... sitting at Safeway sounds like a mudbog....... but back in Truck Country, even just East of us over the hump and into farming country you see nothing but 2-wheel drive gas trucks, maybe with duallies ................ working ;)


And Dennis, this is for YOU :D:D:D From a Canuck who gets it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDY6bWT5oTM
 
Hmmmmmm.....battery tech rights......

bought out by Chevron.......something like BP/Amoco going wholehog into solar????
Dennis, have you ever heard of National City Lines???? Interesting subject, particularly how much they got fined for conspiracy.....
 
It is so easy to complain

I drive an 08 Cadillac CTS with a little V6 under the hood. This car is not sold as an economy car by any means but at 70 to 75 MPH I get slightly over 30 miles per gallon. In town we are getting between 18 and 20. Even with it's puny little V6 it will run a hole in the wind and it will not waist much time doing it. I think we don't give our automakers near enough credit when they build what we want.

I am sure the same can be said of many of the newer cars.

Concho Bill
 
Larry Elliott said:
Tio, you need to move to CA or FL.... Of course the husky wouldn't like it, but you NEED a Volt.:D
Click to expand...

Larry, my youngest daugther bought a Scion TC back in Dec of 04 and the dealer would only give her $1000 for her 99 Neon on trade, told her not to trade it in I'll buy it from you. Parked my 4x4 Dakota for the most part and have been driving the Neon since. This car averages just over 32mpg for all around driving, that's double the Dakota's mileage. The Neon may not ride the best, doesn't have all the doo-dads of the newer cars, but it gets me where I wanna go, it's good in the winter time and it's saved me a chunk of money over the past few years.
 
I am intrigued by automobile electric propulsion and have done a lot of reading and surfing. I also used to be heavily involved in electric powered RC airplanes. From the mid 90's onward there were quantum leaps made in the technology of motors, batteries, chargers, structures and the electronic controls for the motors and flight surfaces.

Lithium polymer batteries, brushless - sensorless electric motors, carbon fiber composites and miniaturization have caused the typical E-powered RC plane to go from an 18 + oz sluggish performer to a 9 oz or less craft with nearly unlimited vertical performance.

When this technology is applied to an automobile you end up with something like the GM EV-1 [ aka the Impact, almost as good a name as a "KIA" :rolleyes: ]. The problem with mass producing a state of the art Epowered car is that the owners don't have any idea how to properly use the thing and the dealer's are totally lost on marketing, education and service.

For someone with a 20 mile or less drive to work [ one way ] you can build an Epowered vehicle using 50's technology that will give you the equivalent of 100+ MPG [ depending on the price of gas of course ]. Lead acid golf cart batts, a brushed DC motor and a relatively simple controller will suffice. With an onboard batt charger you just plug it in at work and at home. Recharging cost is just pennies.

You will have to replace the lead acid golf cart batts and this cost is figured into my '100+ mpg' estimate. The batt pack will cost you between $1000 and $2000 [ lipo would be $6000 to $10,000 ]. If you abuse the batt you could kill it in 6 months to a year. Proper use and care could extend this to 5+ years.

AC as we think of it is probably out in a homebuilt. The heater wouldn't be as effective. It would require pretty regular checking of the batt electrolyte level, 2 or 3 times a month.

I need to quit typing !!:D

For the guy with the 11 mile commute Epower is ideal. The performance would astound you. Google White Zombie to see what a group of knuckleheads are capable of [ knuckleheads because there are NO thoughts to what might happen if this short wheelbased machine went out of control at 100+ MPH. No rollbar, inadequate battery racks, etc :eek:].
 
Mileage

Gasoline vapors are far more explosive than raw gasoline. Carbs and fuel injection all attempt to atomize the fuel. The resultant tiny droplets mix reasonably well with air and then ignite. We proved as kids that a cottonball soaked in gas and left in a gallon vinegar jug in the sun for about 2hrs would produce a giant explosion. Ma wasn't happy nor were the neighbors! European Volkswagens used gas vapor heaters for years. One of these burned up at a gas station in the late sixties in my town. The owner just wasn't up to speed on the workings of such! Vaporized fuel could give incredible increases in economy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top