Vudoo V22S SS/F Class Action

Hi Mike,

If there's ever an occasion where you're travelling down I-80 in Nebraska in transit to UT or CT, stop at my facility and we'll try to gather enough data to determine if your platform (configured as it arrives and with the best ammo you can find for it) may be competitive in RFBR.

I certainly don't know about you, but most of those outside of our discipline aren't really aware of the level of precision required to be competitive. Over decades of testing and research, I've become somewhat familiar with how to gather quality data, and more importantly, how to analyze it.

Just a thought you can ponder and you have an open invitation,
Landy
 
Landy, You might look at Mike's company. Vudoogunworks.com at this point in the life of rimfire I am going to say they are the largest custom manufacture of rimfire rifles in the US. In the 22lr prs and NRL22 game they are king. While the accuracy level does not have to be at pro BR, more and more shooters are requiring that it is. I have shot my 18" Vudoo at a number of ABRA shoots with a bipod and bag and have national agg of 193 and a NON-sanctioned BR shooting ARA targets I pulled off 2050, 2200 and 2350 all scored worst edge. While I know these are not great scores they are all done with a bipod and bag. This is my first 6 months of BR and I am enjoying it. My main game was NRL22 but am moving more into SmallBore F-class and will be shooting more BR once my new V22-S is ready. Right now they are catering to the fastest growing rimfire sport on the planet with over 1000 members and 90 matches a month. I am happy they are looking to expand into the Single feed market since the smallbore f-class is starting to really take off. I feel it's an exciting time for everyone in the rimfire world!
 
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marks_a18138 said:
Mike don't worry, you keep doing what you have been doing! Ruling the 22 PRS world with 1000's of top of the line rifles in peoples hands! Now the 2nd fastest growing rimfire sport in the Nation is Smallbore F-class that requires BR accuracy and you guys will fill that gap!
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BR accuracy????
That statement is based on what exactly, some bulls..t you read on Snipers Hide ?
If you post on a BR forum it really helps if you have a clue what you're posting.
 
DEFTI RIMFIRE said:
Well, first, it's not a rabbit hole, it's an actual design and not just something I did because others do it or because someone arrogantly says it has to be a certain way. I happen to have my own barrels that are .900 and recently received a shipment of Muller blanks and can get any other barrel I want, and yes, they're .900 also. I'm not particularly concerned about the other barrels not fitting my action and I don't want them to; I'm sure they'll do just fine on the few other actions that use the smaller tenon.

Thanks Tony,

MB
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Mike, not to push you're information time schedule but based on the above may we assume you incorporate some type of bushing for barrel tenon ?
 
HuskerP7M8 said:
Hi Mike,

If there's ever an occasion where you're travelling down I-80 in Nebraska in transit to UT or CT, stop at my facility and we'll try to gather enough data to determine if your platform (configured as it arrives and with the best ammo you can find for it) may be competitive in RFBR.

I certainly don't know about you, but most of those outside of our discipline aren't really aware of the level of precision required to be competitive. Over decades of testing and research, I've become somewhat familiar with how to gather quality data, and more importantly, how to analyze it.

Just a thought you can ponder and you have an open invitation,
Landy
Click to expand...

Hey Landy,
I really appreciate the offer. I've followed you over the years and have deeply considered a lot of what you openly share, it's golden and of benefit to many. I'm aware of what's required, which has been part of why I've jumped so deeply into testing some very interesting things. I'd like to catch up with you at some point as I believe you'd find it interesting as well.

Thanks,
MB
 
tim said:
Mike, not to push you're information time schedule but based on the above may we assume you incorporate some type of bushing for barrel tenon ?
Click to expand...

Hey Tim, I don't feel pushed at all. The current tenon is larger than typically found in BR. I've had no plans of offering a bushing, but in an effort to avoid being completely close minded, I'll take a look at the possibilities/merits of doing so.

MB
 
tim said:
BR accuracy????
That statement is based on what exactly, some bulls..t you read on Snipers Hide ?
If you post on a BR forum it really helps if you have a clue what you're posting.
Click to expand...

Really Tim, I could give one rats ass what you say. You are one of the problems with new shooters coming into the BR game. I have seen you crap on people asking question on a lot of forums. While I have NO nationals titles like you do in BR, I do have a number National titles in other shooting discipline's. But I welcome everyone even if they ask dumb question or not. Tim I am also very seldom a negative person and truly hope to meet and shoot with you some day! But there is nothing I have said here that is not correct...22lr PRS and NRL22 IS the fastest and largest growing precision rimfire sport! Prove me wrong! 2nd F-class is another sport that officially started back around 2014 is now growing quickly, does it require BR accuracy yes it does since the xring is smaller then the ARA bull at 50 and we already have shooters cleaning the courses of fire at 50 using BR rifles. You are not shooting from a bench with a one piece rest, you are shooting prone on top of the rifle with a bipod or a 2 piece rest with a bag rear. I in NO way believe it's harder then BR, it just a different game requiring accurate rifles! So Tim just calm down and enjoy a new world of rimfire and I hope new people migrate into the BR game.
 
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DEFTI RIMFIRE said:
Hey Tim, I don't feel pushed at all. The current tenon is larger than typically found in BR. I've had no plans of offering a bushing, but in an effort to avoid being completely close minded, I'll take a look at the possibilities/merits of doing so.

MB
Click to expand...

The only reason I asked was the reference to barrels being used and given your action......the required stepdown.
Since I shot a Swindlehurst for years, a proper bushing was the elegant solution rather than the oft problematic multiple contour barrel.
 
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marks_a18138 said:
Really Tim, I could give one rats ass what you say. You are one of the problems with new shooters coming into the BR game. I have seen you crap on people asking question on a lot of forums. While I have NO nationals titles like you do in BR, I do have a number National titles in other shooting discipline's. But I welcome everyone even if they ask dumb question or not. Tim I am also very seldom a negative person and truly hope to meet and shoot with you some day! But there is nothing I have said here that is not correct...22lr PRS and NRL22 IS the fastest and largest growing precision rimfire sport! Prove me wrong! 2nd F-class is another sport that officially started back around 2014 is now growing quickly, does it require BR accuracy yes it does since the xring is smaller then the ARA bull at 50 and we already have shooters cleaning the courses of fire at 50 using BR rifles. You are not shooting from a bench with a one piece rest, you are shooting prone on top of the rifle with a bipod or a 2 piece rest with a bag rear. I in NO way believe it's harder then BR, it just a different game requiring accurate rifles! So Tim just calm down and enjoy a new world of rimfire and I hope new people migrate into the BR game.
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FWIW, you have NEVER seen me crap on people for questions, ever.
I will when somebody clueless asks a question and then proceeds to argue about info without benefit of any actual knowledge, or saying something obviously stupid and frankly, I have helped more shooters then you, likely have met in your short career so when you make public statements, maybe stick to what you actually know.
I am quite familiar with F class, RF and CF, not my particular cup of tea, but hey, whatever you like.
 
tim said:
The only reason I asked was the reference to barrels being used and given your action......the required stepdown.
SinceI shot a Swindlehurst for years, a proper bushing was the elegant solution rather than the oft problematic multiple contour barrel.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, makes sense. The barrels I'm using have a 1.2" breech cylinder prior to machining the tenon and a single "step down" to .900, which runs to the muzzle as a single diameter.

MB
 
tim said:
FWIW, you have NEVER seen me crap on people for questions, ever.
I will when somebody clueless asks a question and then proceeds to argue about info without benefit of any actual knowledge, or saying something obviously stupid and frankly, I have helped more shooters then you, likely have met in your short career so when you make public statements, maybe stick to what you actually know.
I am quite familiar with F class, RF and CF, not my particular cup of tea, but hey, whatever you like.
Click to expand...

You are a funny guy Tim. I happy to hear you have helped people. I guess my 30 plus years of competition shooting makes a short career, then I guess am a rookie!

Thanks Tim, Like I said hope we get to meet sometime and shoot together.
 
DEFTI RIMFIRE said:
Thanks Hozzie, I appreciate your words here and I get the skeptical part, I'm a huge skeptic myself, which is why I go down the paths I do. However, the important part about being skeptical is not failing to have a desire to understand. A skeptic that doesn't ask valid questions is someone that never grows. The absence of this desire leads to what I've seen and experienced and admittedly, I'm now jaded to a community that tends to put themselves on a pedestal.

Yes, I understand "everything" has been tried in BR, but to what extent? How many variables have been taken into account and what data exists that can effectively communicate an outcome? And, if there is data, what does the data identify that can improve an outcome? What technology and processes that exist now can influence performance in a positive way? These are the areas I focus on, but doing so and communicating it is what has brought about the arrogance I speak of.

In short, I don't like being sideways with anyone and I have A LOT of respect for TKH, but I was asked no questions relative to the early posts in this thread. Instead, it jumped right to the place it always jumps to and that is, no desire to understand why something was done differently. So, how does this help advance anything? Basically, it doesn't, because the community demands to be understood before seeking to understand. I've watched it for a long time and can say, while it may appear I have excluded a certain community, it can also be said that a certain community has excluded others that would love to be a part of BR because of "skepticism." So, yes, it goes both ways and I'm the type to call it out.

TKH, I apologize for coming across in an arrogant way, it's not how I like/prefer to communicate. My hope is, we all learn something from this as we move on.

MB
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I completely agree with you that skepticism shouldn't preclude any desire to learn and understand. I actually think most would love to better understand, but the reality is most of us aren't engineers and may not be able to fully appreciate the real technical details. While it certainly doesn't apply to all, I do think most people ask questions based on their personal experience with components, etc and have no technical idea why maybe one version of a component works better for them than another. I can also appreciate that it must be frustrating trying to justify your decisions to someone who is not technical and may not fully appreciate the effort to find the data you do.

While you can't control the questions asked, maybe one option is to address the answer in relation to why you chose what you chose based on the question asked, good or bad. I don't expect you to give away any trade secrets, but maybe your explanation can move the discussion in the right direction. For example, when asked about changing to a 3/4-16 barrel tenon, maybe explain why you chose the tenon size you did. I am sure you have a reason and most I think would be open minded to your view if you are able to share your reasoning. I don't even mean actual data, but something as simple as saying in your testing you maybe found the extra rigidity of the larger tenon to be advantageous for this or that reason.

At the end of the day I agree that I hope we can all try to be more optimistic about the intention of questions and remarks. For as much as the forums give us access to information like never before, it also has the negative side of no way to read body language.

Thanks again for posting your information and opinions. I have respect for anyone that sticks up for their position even if not popular.

Jamie
 
DEFTI RIMFIRE said:
Hey Landy,
I really appreciate the offer. I've followed you over the years and have deeply considered a lot of what you openly share, it's golden and of benefit to many. I'm aware of what's required, which has been part of why I've jumped so deeply into testing some very interesting things. I'd like to catch up with you at some point as I believe you'd find it interesting as well.

Thanks,
MB
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Mike,

Thanks for the kind words....I appreciate it. And yes, at some point I'd enjoy visiting with you.

Of some interest to me, and off the top of my heard, are some comments you've made that aroused my curiosity regarding angular deflection, barrel length and twist.

I feel like I must be missing something because I've been unable to reconcile your thoughts on the subject with ballistic theory as I understand it. I can understand how and why it's relevant for CF jacketed projectiles, but I'm not so sure it holds true for RF due to Cg offsets that likely cause considerable increases in dispersion at the target regardless of range.

Anyway, I don't want to discuss it here, but like I said it caused some curiosity and piqued my interest.

Landy
 
HuskerP7M8 said:
Mike,

Thanks for the kind words....I appreciate it. And yes, at some point I'd enjoy visiting with you.

Of some interest to me, and off the top of my heard, are some comments you've made that aroused my curiosity regarding angular deflection, barrel length and twist.

I feel like I must be missing something because I've been unable to reconcile your thoughts on the subject with ballistic theory as I understand it. I can understand how and why it's relevant for CF jacketed projectiles, but I'm not so sure it holds true for RF due to Cg offsets that likely cause considerable increases in dispersion at the target regardless of range.

Anyway, I don't want to discuss it here, but like I said it caused some curiosity and piqued my interest.

Landy
Click to expand...

Landy, this is cool and exactly the type of conversation I've been looking for as it relates to getting outside the box. What I originally saw in my testing relates exactly to what you're trying to reconcile, and you're not wrong. After I changed another variable, I was quite pleased and the testing since with additional barrels of the same specs have yielded the same results at the target.

We should talk soon.
MB
 
These are fresh off the 5 Axis....I'll be prepping and sending out for finish really soon....


The first ones off the machine are RB,LP. When I design at Vudoo, the SolidWorks models have every configuration from the beginning. Meaning, when I design a right handed part, I also design a left handed part, so there's no long, unnecessary wait for left handed versions of what we do. In the day and age of technology we live in, not having a left handed version at the time of intro is just plain silly.

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Remember, we're not taking orders yet, but you can get on a contact list by calling the shop and letting Greg, Jill or Lisa know you'd like to be on the Single Shot list.


MB
 
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