UBR target mis-sized, favors smaller caliber.

I started IBS score 22 years ago

I don't recall anyone saying that a 6 couldn't compete with a 30 in score shooting. But competing and having equal opportunity is different. I can't understand why no one will admit that the larger bullet gives the shooter an advantage. This is a lot like liberals refusing to answer Tucker Carlson's questions. Just admit it, it won't change a thing and it will only hurt a little. Come to think of it, are you saying that if the overwhelming majority of the 30BR shooters were better they could easily shoot 6s instead?

BTW- the longer this discussion goes on the more will see it. This is a lot like voters. I won't change IBS/NBRSA shooters minds and you won't change UBR shooters minds, but the people who are on the sidelines will see who's telling the truth and UBR will continue to draw interest and will increase. Thanks Pete.

Rick

with a 6PPC. I had it re-barreled with a Hart 6PPC chamber and another with a 30BR Hart. Shooting both I found the 30 to be much easier to tune and keep there than the PPC. I stuck with the 30 primarily for that reason and Randy Robinett's superlative 30 caliber bullets. I have occasionally dug out the PPC and nothing yet has changed my mind.
 
If'n

I basically quit shooting IBS matches 5 or 6 years ago. I decided to focus on IR 50/50, sold my CF rifles and replaced them with RF rifles. Since then, there have been a number of new faces show up at those matches. Some of we older folks, not so much any more but new people, some who just decided to try it. Some of them started with 6 PPC's and a couple have stuck with them. I don't think the caliber is the issue, there is plenty more for a new shooter to learn to deal with other than the caliber.

Looking back, it has amazed me all the new shooters in the North and South Carolina area. A new big range and chezam, a bunch of new shooters I had never heard of. I think and don't know for sure but it appears to me that Score Shooting is growing. As I said, I haven't really been interested in a long time until recently and may go back at it a bit more.

If there were UBR matches close to me I would likely try one, I have nothing against them but also see nothing wrong with IBS or NBRSA Score matches. A game is a game and if one decides to play, they are in for whatever the rules say. At the end of the day, the person with the best equipment, with the best memory for conditions and has put some time into shooting is likely to win. I just don't see UBR as a do all end all. It's a game like the others.I don't see it as a fairness issue and never have. I need 3 more IBS Agg patches to make 100. I doubt I will live long enough to luck into them :).

Pete

you don't shoot you won't..I'll guarantee you that!
 
2018 UBR Schedule

FWIW, I noticed the 2018 schedule is up. I don't know if it's complete yet or not and kinda doubt it is.
Anyway, here's a link. Find one a close to ya and ya'll come give it a try! If there's not one close by, contact me, Rick or Danny for info on how easy it is to get started. Danny's contact info is on the site or one of us can be reached on here most times.

http://ultimatebenchrest.com/upcoming-events
 
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FWIW, I noticed the 2018 schedule is up. I don't know if it's complete yet or not and kinda doubt it is.
Anyway, here's a link. Find one a close to ya and ya'll come give it a try! If there's not one close by, contact me, Rick or Danny for info on how easy it is to get started. Danny's contact info is on the site or one of us can be reached on here most times.

http://ultimatebenchrest.com/upcoming-events

Mike,
You are correct, it's not complete, but Danny thought it best to get something up. There are several ranges that have said they would be shooting matches this year but haven't sent in a schedule. I know of a couple in OH and maybe one or two in NC as well as another in KY. For those of us in the central south it would be easy to shoot a match every W/E beginning in March and going through October. I know there are more available than I can make.

Rick
 
recoil

I have read several comments over several years about the supposed advantage of a 30BR over the 6MM for score shooting and usually someone comments on “caliber neutral” targets. I am a long time NBRSA and sometimes IBS score shooter (and group shooter) but I must be missing something when it comes to caliber neutral targets. I have also heard several other NBRSA score competitors discuss the UBR “caliber neutral” target over the years and the general thought is that yes, the line spacing makes it a neutral situation for the bullet diameter but a caliber neutral target does not take anything into consideration about the increased recoil of a 30 caliber- and recoil is a clear disadvantage.

Experienced competitive shooters are aware that the more a rifle recoils the more that detracts from its accuracy. The general consensus of the discussions I have heard is that the increase in recoil of the 30-caliber would negate its bullet diameter advantage over the 6MM and smaller calibers. Since the inception of UBR I have never seen this mentioned or discussed on these online posts and do not understand why. A 30-caliber takes a lot of consistent discipline at the bench as compared to a 6PPC.

I just started reading this thread and a couple of other related posts about caliber neutral and I finally see a couple of others have commented; such as Francis’ post #27 and Jackie’s post #28 of this thread.

I read this website often but seldom get into these discussions as I do not want to argue with people, but others have commented about the 30BR recoil on this thread also: http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?98378-Thinking-of-building-a-LV-30br

Wayne Corley
 
I have read several comments over several years about the supposed advantage of a 30BR over the 6MM for score shooting and usually someone comments on “caliber neutral” targets. I am a long time NBRSA and sometimes IBS score shooter (and group shooter) but I must be missing something when it comes to caliber neutral targets. I have also heard several other NBRSA score competitors discuss the UBR “caliber neutral” target over the years and the general thought is that yes, the line spacing makes it a neutral situation for the bullet diameter but a caliber neutral target does not take anything into consideration about the increased recoil of a 30 caliber- and recoil is a clear disadvantage.

Experienced competitive shooters are aware that the more a rifle recoils the more that detracts from its accuracy. The general consensus of the discussions I have heard is that the increase in recoil of the 30-caliber would negate its bullet diameter advantage over the 6MM and smaller calibers. Since the inception of UBR I have never seen this mentioned or discussed on these online posts and do not understand why. A 30-caliber takes a lot of consistent discipline at the bench as compared to a 6PPC.

I just started reading this thread and a couple of other related posts about caliber neutral and I finally see a couple of others have commented; such as Francis’ post #27 and Jackie’s post #28 of this thread.

I read this website often but seldom get into these discussions as I do not want to argue with people, but others have commented about the 30BR recoil on this thread also: http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?98378-Thinking-of-building-a-LV-30br

Wayne Corley

UBR utilizes a caliber neutral SCORING system. You may shoot your 30 at velocities that equalize recoil but I wouldn't recommend it.

Didn't I read somewhere that a 30 owns the 100 yard small group world record?

Just sayin'.
 
After hearing about this conversation, I had to check in. When you fellows talk about new shooters and what it takes to keep them coming back, I would say to the IBS and NBRSA score shooters, particularly the “ experts “ on here to try and be a little helpful. There’s nothing more imtimidating to a new shooter than to have one of these judgmental, condescending, experts looking down there nose at you. The few IBS matches I’ve been to, if you weren’t in the click, you were ignored, then when a fellow comes over to this site with hopes to glean some help, we’ll let me just say, from most of the esteemed experts, the contempt is dripping from there reply’s, if they’re not completely ignored.
But it’s not that way with UBR. When you show up at a UBR match for the first time, your made to feel at home. They will make you feel wanted, and you will be encouraged. You’ll get help from strangers, you’ll get advise from people you’ve never met before, and you’ll be talked to like your expected to return. They are the nices people I’ve ever competed with, and I’m proud to be a part.
Last year, one of our prominent shooters spread the word that any new shooter who wanted to try out UBR need only to contact him and the new shooter would be provide with a competitive rifle, rest and ammo to try and see if UBR was something he would be interested in. Now this guy has a day job, and at times a full plate. But he was willing to go the extra distance in order to attract more new shooters. And that’s just one example.
When you go to a benchrest match, do you notice that most of the shooters are either retired or darn close? Other shooting sports require moving about, shooting from less than stable platforms, and are more fun to watch. Ever wonder what it is that benchrest has to offer that makes a new shooter want to try it out? The way I see it, we are the end all in the accuracy world. None of the equipment used in these other venues are capable of doing what ours can do, on demand. Raw accuracy. And everyone of you have been bitten by the bug. That’s why we’re here, it’s what we do. But our sport is withering on the vine because starting in this game of benchrest is intimidating. UBR is a humble way to push past all that.
So, to those of you who haven’t tried a UBR match, but are quick to denounce it, let me say thank you. Your closed mind, hateful demeanor, and misinformation, makes it that much easier to steal shooters from your sport. We’ll welcome them with open arms, and show them how score shooting always should have been.

Wayne
 
After hearing about this conversation, I had to check in. When you fellows talk about new shooters and what it takes to keep them coming back, I would say to the IBS and NBRSA score shooters, particularly the “ experts “ on here to try and be a little helpful. There’s nothing more imtimidating to a new shooter than to have one of these judgmental, condescending, experts looking down there nose at you. The few IBS matches I’ve been to, if you weren’t in the click, you were ignored, then when a fellow comes over to this site with hopes to glean some help, we’ll let me just say, from most of the esteemed experts, the contempt is dripping from there reply’s, if they’re not completely ignored.
But it’s not that way with UBR. When you show up at a UBR match for the first time, your made to feel at home. They will make you feel wanted, and you will be encouraged. You’ll get help from strangers, you’ll get advise from people you’ve never met before, and you’ll be talked to like your expected to return. They are the nices people I’ve ever competed with, and I’m proud to be a part.
Last year, one of our prominent shooters spread the word that any new shooter who wanted to try out UBR need only to contact him and the new shooter would be provide with a competitive rifle, rest and ammo to try and see if UBR was something he would be interested in. Now this guy has a day job, and at times a full plate. But he was willing to go the extra distance in order to attract more new shooters. And that’s just one example.
When you go to a benchrest match, do you notice that most of the shooters are either retired or darn close? Other shooting sports require moving about, shooting from less than stable platforms, and are more fun to watch. Ever wonder what it is that benchrest has to offer that makes a new shooter want to try it out? The way I see it, we are the end all in the accuracy world. None of the equipment used in these other venues are capable of doing what ours can do, on demand. Raw accuracy. And everyone of you have been bitten by the bug. That’s why we’re here, it’s what we do. But our sport is withering on the vine because starting in this game of benchrest is intimidating. UBR is a humble way to push past all that.
So, to those of you who haven’t tried a UBR match, but are quick to denounce it, let me say thank you. Your closed mind, hateful demeanor, and misinformation, makes it that much easier to steal shooters from your sport. We’ll welcome them with open arms, and show them how score shooting always should have been.

Wayne
First, I'd like to just say that I'm sorry you were made to feel unwelcome anywhere in the benchrest shooting community but I'm glad you've found a home with us in UBR.
UBR is just as much benchrest as either of the other organizations, group or score.

Welcome aboard!
 
It would be nice

you don't shoot you won't..I'll guarantee you that!

If there were a few more matches in Maine. When we started there were a lot more matches held in Maine. We got use to traveling I guess but I would rather not so much these days.I believe we had 3 matches every month back then and didn"t schedule against the Nationals, of course. I realize folks like to visit other clubs but - - - -

Pete
 
Lets talk about the UBR Factory Class for a bit

What are the prevailing rifle makes in the UBR Factory Class?

Pete
 
What are the prevailing rifle makes in the UBR Factory Class?

Pete

Nothing is very prevailing as of now. If anything, probably Savage, but there are Remingtons, Coopers, Savages, Rugers and I'm probably leaving some out.

I once had a Winchester M70 Heavy Varminter that would've been a very competitive factory class rifle. It was a 22-250 and wouldn't likely have lasted long, though. I'd love to find one that shoots like it did, in 222 or 223.
I don't shoot factory but if I had one like that one was, I'd probably have to give it a go. It was an honest to goodness .25 moa factory rifle.

It's the gun that got me into BR! Damn that thang! Lol!
 
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Savage LRPV in 6BR, Remington 40x, Older Sako in 6PPC, Cooper, Are the top factory rifles that I've seen do very well in factory over the past 6 years that I've shot UBR. Especially that Dam 40x Garry L, shoots,,,LOL. That's a Tough rifle to beat.
 
Over the years, I’ve seen both 700s and 40-X Remington’s, some Savages, however factory class is limited to 13.5 pounds, so that eliminates the laminated stock savage BR rifles. Coopers have made a good showing as have a few Sakos in the PPC chamberings. There has been some real compitition in this class, so bring a good rifle and your A game.

Wayne
 
If there were a few more matches in Maine. When we started there were a lot more matches held in Maine. We got use to traveling I guess but I would rather not so much these days.I believe we had 3 matches every month back then and didn"t schedule against the Nationals, of course. I realize folks like to visit other clubs but - - - -

Pete

Pete. Chris Mitchell tried to get a UBR match up here at the Orrington range. He talked to Rick Fox about it as I understand but there are people up here that if it isn't IBS anything, they don't want it which is too bad. IMO that's the biggest thing that is holding this thing of ours is that people don't like change. As far as you go Wayne, that's not the norm that you didn't feel welcome at a match that you attended when you just started out. When I started everyone made me feel welcome and to this day are willing to help you out when you need an answer to a question or just about anything else. There is a gentleman up heAH named Orland Bunker who has probably gotten more shooters shooting in SR score in the IBS than anyone. He is one unique person that is an asset to the IBS score shooting venue.
 
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Because

but if there is no advantage to shooting a 30BR in IBS and NBRSA score shoots why is it dominated by that caliber? It certainly can't be because guys like the extra recoil.

I'm going to try to make a couple of these UBR matches this season. Far as I can tell, I can shoot two classes with my bone stock 22-250 and my old but new to me 6 PPC.

of great bullets, powder, brass and a relatively easy tune and it tends to stay there.
 
Jim

Pete. Chris Mitchell tried to get a UBR match up here at the Orrington range. He talked to Rick Fox about it as I understand but there are people up here that if it isn't IBS anything, they don't want it which is too bad. IMO that's the biggest thing that is holding this thing of ours is that people don't like change. As far as you go Wayne, that's not the norm that you didn't feel welcome at a match that you attended when you just started out. When I started everyone made me feel welcome and to this day are willing to help you out when you need an answer to a question or just about anything else. There is a gentleman up heAH named Orland Bunker who has probably gotten more shooters shooting in SR score in the IBS than anyone. He is one unique person that is an asset to the IBS score shooting venue.

Chris did make an effort to have Orrington hold a UBR match and talked to me several times about it. I told him I would help if he wanted to run it. I did not volunteer to run it because I have the IBS matches to arrange for and like to shoot skeet, trap, .22 rf fun shoots and still work 2 days a week. If Chris or anyone else wants to take the lead and let me know I will try and get it on the Orrington schedule and help with it if there are no other personal event conflicts.
 
It is good to see that my debauchery, of last week, initiated so many passionate and well articulated responses. I maintain my position,
that no BR discipline is either superior, or, inferior to any other discipline - just different. My poor math aside, there are more similarities than differences. Keep 'em ON the X! RG
 
It is good to see that my debauchery, of last week, initiated so many passionate and well articulated responses. I maintain my position,
that no BR discipline is either superior, or, inferior to any other discipline - just different. My poor math aside, there are more similarities than differences. Keep 'em ON the X! RG

Very true. It's still just shootin'. Thank you Randy!
 
It is good to see that my debauchery, of last week, initiated so many passionate and well articulated responses. I maintain my position,
that no BR discipline is either superior, or, inferior to any other discipline - just different. My poor math aside, there are more similarities than differences. Keep 'em ON the X! RG

I agree completely Randy. Also, I'll have to say that it pleases me to see that this discussion has stayed civil and hasn't deteriorated into name calling and hard feelings as these things sometimes do.

Rick
 
So, what bullets

Savage LRPV in 6BR, Remington 40x, Older Sako in 6PPC, Cooper, Are the top factory rifles that I've seen do very well in factory over the past 6 years that I've shot UBR. Especially that Dam 40x Garry L, shoots,,,LOL. That's a Tough rifle to beat.

does one shoot in an 8 twist 6MM?
 
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