Tuners!!!!

Tuner Mechanics

I copied this link from the Timo thread from Calfee's site.

It is a very well written article about tuners and tuning both centerfire and rimfire.

There is so much information in it I'm sure many will not agree with it all but if you keep an open mind, it is an opportunity to learn a few things.

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=660

Thanks, Timo for posting it.

TKH (4628)
 
Thanks for everybody's help regarding rimfire barrel tuners.

My local (Australian) tuner arrived and it is a well made piece of kit and it fits my Annie barrel perfectly.

However, apart from fitting instructions there are no instructions regarding abut how to dial in a tuner.

Any sensible and practical advice would be most welcome.

* doggie *
 
doghunter said:
Thanks for everybody's help regarding rimfire barrel tuners.

My local (Australian) tuner arrived and it is a well made piece of kit and it fits my Annie barrel perfectly.

However, apart from fitting instructions there are no instructions regarding abut how to dial in a tuner.

Any sensible and practical advice would be most welcome.

* doggie *
Click to expand...

doggie,

There are so many ways to find a good tuner setting. Much has been written about it. Some are included in this thread.

The one thing that I've never found is the absolute best place to set a tuner. If I keep shooting long enough, and keep dialing long enough, I can always find a place that seems better than the last.

I think tuners have done more for the ammo makers than anything ever invented.

One tip. If you are shooting groups, 3 shot or 5 shot, stop shooting that group as soon as one bullet goes far enough out to ruin the group.

The next shots can't close up the hole so it makes little sense to keep shooting good ammo.

Another tip is you can't set a tuner with anything but your best ammo. It is just a waste of time trying to find your best tune with ammo that you know isn't your best.

A tuner will not make bad ammo good.

Good luck to you mate.

TKH (4628)
 
Last edited:
But a bad position tuner can make good ammo look bad...
And that's a two sword blade...
As we don't shoot for groups, why shooting groups for tuning? Well, it's fast and easier to evaluate. However, when I found an ammo that does 3~4 good groups of 3~5 shots, I do lines. Then I draw an imaginary line across the center and if all bullets touch that line, I continue to evaluate, if not, either change settings or ammo.
 
It seems that if we are trying to control the vertical with the tuner it would make sense to shoot lines as Pedro said. Just keep moving the tuner until you get the flattest line possible. Theoretically that should be the best tune when you have controlled as much vertical as you can.
 
Thank you everybody for the great advice, I managed to tune in the Annie for no vertical, tried using Lapua Midas + and Eley Tenex.

Annie is a bit picky about her diet, prefers the Eley and on a calm day when the flags do not move the second shot just makes the first hole slightly larger.

Happy as a pig in sh*t

* doggie *
 
A rare day at the local range, 25 degrees C and the wind flags were hanging limp most of the time.

I figured out that my Annie 54 shot well with Lapua Midas + so what could she do with Eley Tenex? (Her favourite diet)

Left the Lowey tuner set as for the Midas +, groups not bad but then moved it in and out just by a few markings and found a sweet spot for the Tenex and shot 6 consecutive 3 shot groups that were tiny one holers. (@50m)

A mate took a photo, I was so pleased, not with the target but the fact that I had impressed somebody enough to take a photo. Never done that before.

Now a question.

I have recorded my tuner settings and input the results into a spreadsheet and plotted graphs from the results and a few nodes (group size) are apparent, consistent and repeatable.

Some graphs are quite peaky and some are flattish.

So, which node does one choose, and why?

* doggie *
 
doghunter said:
A rare day at the local range, 25 degrees C and the wind flags were hanging limp most of the time.

I figured out that my Annie 54 shot well with Lapua Midas + so what could she do with Eley Tenex? (Her favourite diet)

Left the Lowey tuner set as for the Midas +, groups not bad but then moved it in and out just by a few markings and found a sweet spot for the Tenex and shot 6 consecutive 3 shot groups that were tiny one holers. (@50m)

A mate took a photo, I was so pleased, not with the target but the fact that I had impressed somebody enough to take a photo. Never done that before.

Now a question.

I have recorded my tuner settings and input the results into a spreadsheet and plotted graphs from the results and a few nodes (group size) are apparent, consistent and repeatable.

Some graphs are quite peaky and some are flattish.

So, which node does one choose, and why?

* doggie *
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the flattish one's are where your best groups are? That's what I think I'd stick with as it would seem that is your "window".
Another thing I would look at on your perceived best settings is to find which are repeatable in very different conditions, i.e., weather, wind, etc. If so I'd stay on that setting.
I'm a twister though, so when shooting on a different day I may adjust it from there a few clicks at most in either direction to stay in tune with the condition difference from when it was tuned.
Others are steadfast to leave it alone. But they also may bring 2 or 3 lots of there best lots to see which shoots better that day. Tomato- t'am'ato
I envy those who never need move the tuner.
 
So, if you are "twisting" your tuner to "stay in tune", are you moving it to known numbers based on data that you have acquired? Or, are you guessing?
 
pikedrop said:
So, if you are "twisting" your tuner to "stay in tune", are you moving it to known numbers based on data that you have acquired? Or, are you guessing?
Click to expand...

Data? No, I don't have any data. When I said twisting what I meant was willing to move it. I have a base tune I'm comfortable with for example. At the beginning of a target when shooting sighters if I see what seems to be a little vertical, I'll go up to a horizontal line on top of the target where I certain of my aim point & shoot 2 or 3 shot groups. If I'm seeing any vertical still I'll TWIST the tuner a couple clicks in either direction. If I feel the temps are much higher than when I'd tuned the rifle I'll TWIST it in. Colder TWIST it out. Again no more than a click or two at a time & don't ever recall moving it in/out more than 5/6 clicks from my base tune. Usually making an improvement, but NOT always.
Sometimes I'll just be chasing my tail, go back to the original setting & hope for the best. You can always go back!
I look at a tuner as a tool to use throughout the tools life. Not a 1 time use thing. Others, well accomplished never touch it again, & some lie about never doing so. To each their own imo
Keith
 
linekin said:
Data? No, I don't have any data. When I said twisting what I meant was willing to move it. I have a base tune I'm comfortable with for example. At the beginning of a target when shooting sighters if I see what seems to be a little vertical, I'll go up to a horizontal line on top of the target where I certain of my aim point & shoot 2 or 3 shot groups. If I'm seeing any vertical still I'll TWIST the tuner a couple clicks in either direction. If I feel the temps are much higher than when I'd tuned the rifle I'll TWIST it in. Colder TWIST it out. Again no more than a click or two at a time & don't ever recall moving it in/out more than 5/6 clicks from my base tune. Usually making an improvement, but NOT always.
Sometimes I'll just be chasing my tail, go back to the original setting & hope for the best. You can always go back!
I look at a tuner as a tool to use throughout the tools life. Not a 1 time use thing. Others, well accomplished never touch it again, & some lie about never doing so. To each their own imo
Keith
Click to expand...

This is almost exactly how I use a tuner. If you're moving it much at a time, you'll chase your tail. Testing shows the value of each mark or marks on the target and that's what tells me what I need to do to the tuner to bring it back into peak tune. Good post Keith!
 
OK, since this tuner thread has bumped back currently, I have a question.
For those with guns tuned with ELEY, what, if any, adjustments made for Lapua ? Seems like some don’t readjust…..many/most seem to.
 
tim said:
OK, since this tuner thread has bumped back currently, I have a question.
For those with guns tuned with ELEY, what, if any, adjustments made for Lapua ? Seems like some don’t readjust…..many/most seem to.
Click to expand...

Let's cover one thing at a time and why being very methodical matters greatly. We'll start with a pic of a test target. You can clearly see group shape, size and poi changes.
For now, let's address poi. You can see a very clear sine wave on the target and a sweet spot very near both top and bottom of the sine wave, which is physically barrel swing. More later...
 

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mwezell said:
Let's cover one thing at a time and why being very methodical matters greatly. We'll start with a pic of a test target. You can clearly see group shape, size and poi changes.
For now, let's address poi. You can see a very clear sine wave on the target and a sweet spot very near both top and bottom of the sine wave, which is physically barrel swing. More later...
Click to expand...

Yeah Mike that’s swell. I know how to tune a rifle. With all due respect, I asked a specific question which you did not address.
 
mwezell said:
Let's cover one thing at a time and why being very methodical matters greatly. We'll start with a pic of a test target. You can clearly see group shape, size and poi changes.
For now, let's address poi. You can see a very clear sine wave on the target and a sweet spot very near both top and bottom of the sine wave, which is physically barrel swing. More later...
Click to expand...

Mike, can you explain what the numbers at the bottom of your target are?

Thanks,

RFS
 
tim said:
OK, since this tuner thread has bumped back currently, I have a question.
For those with guns tuned with ELEY, what, if any, adjustments made for Lapua ? Seems like some don’t readjust…..many/most seem to.
Click to expand...
Brand is no different than lot changes. I'll get to it, if you care to listen. It goes without saying that we can count on you for your reply, so I was reluctant to offer an answer at all, for that reason. You're welcome to read along but keep in mind...this is MY method with pics and explanation of what the pics will show. IOW, why and how my method works. I'm glad you know how to tune a rifle, so there should be nothing for you to add to MY method. You can do that later or in a different thread. I think there are a number of people who will see the approach that I will describe and the logic behind it to be logical and beneficial. More so without arguments before I'm even started good. In the end, you do you.
 
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