Tuners and load developement: recommedned sequence ?
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Pete Wass
Well-known member
What I have done a number of times is load 15 or 20 cases with a load and seating depth that should work and use the tuner to make it shoot. If the best group is still ragged I then go to powder changing the load in .002 increments until I find a better hole.
I am beginning to change my mind about tuners. From what I am seeing, Tuners work and work well but once one installs one they have to be ready to do the work to know when to change it to keep the rifle in tune. I also believe the barrels become more sensative to tune once tTuners are installed. I am beginning to think that one is better off, with 30's at least, to simply find the best middle load with a naked barrel and go with it. I guess I am too old now to put in the time at the range to develop data to make a tuner work properly and bullets are too darn expensive to waste making a tuner work.
I am beginning to change my mind about tuners. From what I am seeing, Tuners work and work well but once one installs one they have to be ready to do the work to know when to change it to keep the rifle in tune. I also believe the barrels become more sensative to tune once tTuners are installed. I am beginning to think that one is better off, with 30's at least, to simply find the best middle load with a naked barrel and go with it. I guess I am too old now to put in the time at the range to develop data to make a tuner work properly and bullets are too darn expensive to waste making a tuner work.
jackie schmidt
New member
Pete, you might be on to something. At least, with 30's.
My HV 30BR is not that responsive to the tuner, in other words, I can tighten it up a little, but the POI does not change much at all.
My 30BR 10. 5 pound Rifle is another story. It seems just a slight tuner adjusmat goes a long way, It just 1/2 turn on the tuner, (that is just .014 advance), the POI can change as much as two bullet holes.
I doubt it is the barrel taper, my HV does not really have a true HV taper, it is simply a LV profile that I left all of the straight on. The LV does have a lot less "straight, as I had to cut it back to make weight. Probaly about 12 ounces difference in the weight.
I wish I could say more about the 6PPC Sporter, but it has been so darned long since I had a decent 6mm barrel, I can't tell much one way or the other..........jackie
My HV 30BR is not that responsive to the tuner, in other words, I can tighten it up a little, but the POI does not change much at all.
My 30BR 10. 5 pound Rifle is another story. It seems just a slight tuner adjusmat goes a long way, It just 1/2 turn on the tuner, (that is just .014 advance), the POI can change as much as two bullet holes.
I doubt it is the barrel taper, my HV does not really have a true HV taper, it is simply a LV profile that I left all of the straight on. The LV does have a lot less "straight, as I had to cut it back to make weight. Probaly about 12 ounces difference in the weight.
I wish I could say more about the 6PPC Sporter, but it has been so darned long since I had a decent 6mm barrel, I can't tell much one way or the other..........jackie
A
abintx
Guest
Adam ...
Here is the sequence I used for my 6PPC :
1. No Tuner attached to barrel.
2. Powder
3. Neck Tension
4. Bullet seated into the lands at various depths.
Once the barrel was tuned giving me no or almost no vertical,
5. Added tuner
I tried a tuner for a year, but was never very good in the fine art of exact tuning with it. And, I do believe it's an art. Today I only complete steps 2,3, and 4. There are two "Tune Masters" that I know and they are extremely good at it, Jackie Schmidt and Gene Beggs. I'm sure there are others.
Here is the sequence I used for my 6PPC :
1. No Tuner attached to barrel.
2. Powder
3. Neck Tension
4. Bullet seated into the lands at various depths.
Once the barrel was tuned giving me no or almost no vertical,
5. Added tuner
I tried a tuner for a year, but was never very good in the fine art of exact tuning with it. And, I do believe it's an art. Today I only complete steps 2,3, and 4. There are two "Tune Masters" that I know and they are extremely good at it, Jackie Schmidt and Gene Beggs. I'm sure there are others.
Boyd Allen
Active member
A couple of gems that I have heard about tuners...
Gene Beggs told me that for his tuner, given the length and pitch of the threads, that a node can be found at perhaps four places, with the same load, but that although each of these points zero out the vertical, it may be necessary to try more than one to tune out the horizontal...in the tunnel.
Another fellow, who has had great success with tuners, tunes to peak without the tuner, installs the tuner, and tunes with it to peak accuracy, and then locks the tuner, and never moves it, tuning from there conventionally. He has observed that for the 6PPC that the node seems to have been broadened with the addition of a tuner. (This is consistent with my small experience.)
One well known Australian shooter that I have corresponded with, plans to try preloading and doing it all with the tuner. I will be interested in how well this works for him. I think that the practicality of this approach may depend on how great the condition changes are that he has to deal with, but this is just a guess, based on Jackie's report that he cannot always get there by changing the tuner setting.
Jackie,
I think that the sensitivity of a given barrel to a given weight of tuner is a function of its stiffness. One fellow, who has done well with a Beggs tuner on his sporter, reported that it has no effect on his heavy. I think that your HV barrel may be more different in stiffness, as compared to your sporter, than you think. Are they both the same length?
On the barrel stiffness issue, in Precision Shooting, there was a picture of one of Calfee's rimfire, XP 100 conversion, pistols. It had the center of its barrel turned down a bit. My guess is that this was done to make the barrel more flexible, so that a lighter tuner could be used, for balance. In the past, stiffer was thought to be better. With tuners, some modification of this design goal may be in order. What do you think?
Boyd
Gene Beggs told me that for his tuner, given the length and pitch of the threads, that a node can be found at perhaps four places, with the same load, but that although each of these points zero out the vertical, it may be necessary to try more than one to tune out the horizontal...in the tunnel.
Another fellow, who has had great success with tuners, tunes to peak without the tuner, installs the tuner, and tunes with it to peak accuracy, and then locks the tuner, and never moves it, tuning from there conventionally. He has observed that for the 6PPC that the node seems to have been broadened with the addition of a tuner. (This is consistent with my small experience.)
One well known Australian shooter that I have corresponded with, plans to try preloading and doing it all with the tuner. I will be interested in how well this works for him. I think that the practicality of this approach may depend on how great the condition changes are that he has to deal with, but this is just a guess, based on Jackie's report that he cannot always get there by changing the tuner setting.
Jackie,
I think that the sensitivity of a given barrel to a given weight of tuner is a function of its stiffness. One fellow, who has done well with a Beggs tuner on his sporter, reported that it has no effect on his heavy. I think that your HV barrel may be more different in stiffness, as compared to your sporter, than you think. Are they both the same length?
On the barrel stiffness issue, in Precision Shooting, there was a picture of one of Calfee's rimfire, XP 100 conversion, pistols. It had the center of its barrel turned down a bit. My guess is that this was done to make the barrel more flexible, so that a lighter tuner could be used, for balance. In the past, stiffer was thought to be better. With tuners, some modification of this design goal may be in order. What do you think?
Boyd