Tuner on 30BR?

Apollo

Apollo

Jason Stanley
Lots of good reading lately on the use and reasons for tuners. Most of the time, assuming gets me into trouble, but I am assuming most of the tuners are for 6ppc's and group shooting. Does anybody have any research or experience with using tuners on a 30 BR for 100/200 yd score shooting?

As always, thanks in advance for any replies.

Stanley
 
The IBS Score 100/200 Nationals was won this year with a 30BR sporting a tuner. I see at least one at every Score match I attend.
 
Tuner/30BR

Jackie Schmidt asked me if I would like to "try out" his 30ppc
at our Aug VFS match in Tomball. Jackies VFS rig sports a
snubber style tuner designed by Jackie himself. Needless to
say I took him up on it.

The only trigger time I had with this rig was during the
"warm up, sight in session" before the match started.

When the match begain I did not feel comfortable with
the 30ppc. On the first target I didn't do so well scoring
a 50-2x. I finnally got a handle it and finished up with
a respectable 250-17x and finished tied for 2nd my first
time out with this rig.

This 30ppc rig equiped with a Schmidt tuner is capable
of groups in the mid 1's @ 100 yds. IMHO I think a 30BR
would do as well at 100 yds and better at 200yds with
a "battle tested" tuner.

What is a battle tested tuner? Its how well it peforms in
the competitive arena......

In the last three years at 27 matchs Jackie's tuner has
scored 16 teen aggs, multiple GCSYear awards, and a bunch of
2 gun champiomships. I would say at the very least that
Jackie's tuner has proven track record.

I know one thing. When my 30ppc goes to the line at the
first VFS match of the year it'll be sporting a Schmidt tuner.
 
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Tuner on 30BR

Jim Borden installed this Beggs tuner on a 30BR for Julia.
Tuner01.jpg


She shot it last weekend in Richmond, Virginia. She shot 250-22X giving her 2nd place.
Winners_1.jpg
 
I'm useing a Lambert/Davidson style tuner on my 30 Major(grendel)VFS gun now. It's still new to me, and frankly, I think it cost me second place in the 100 this past Saturday at Gallatin. I was shooting in a headwind and just didn't listen to what the gun was telling me to do as far as moving the tuner. I blamed a little vertical on the wind instead of being out of tune. I shot a 49-3 on the 4th target. I moved the tuner and finished with a 50-5(all wipeouts I think)on the last target. I hate it so much that I just ordered 4 more this week.:D.

I can make my gun shoot bugholes or about 5/8" with about a 1/4 turn of the tuner. The tuner works great and is simple as can be to use, really! I had it on the gun for about a week before the match and I feel like I can stay on top of it now. I am sure that there is a learning curve but it seems very short and easy to get use to. I am sold. :) Great product Butch! I'm not saying that his is or isn't better than the Beggs tuner, or others, but it is made the way I would have made it myself.
I also put the one on for Rick Fox. I think his feeling are the same on the tuner, but I'll let him respond if he wants. He sure shot well!---Mike Ezell
 
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Tuner Photos

That Beggs Tuner looks great!
Any more photos out there of the other tuners?
Any tuners that don't have to be gunsmithed on?
 
donjfred said:
That Beggs Tuner looks great!
Any more photos out there of the other tuners?
Any tuners that don't have to be gunsmithed on?
Click to expand...

I turned and threaded the barrel for mine and Rick's but you could open up the Lambert tuner and clamp or epoxy it on I guess.
 

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Tuner Pics

Thank yopu 333Smitty and mwezell for your replies and photos.

Is jackies Tuner a "clamp on" or does it need to be threaded to the barrel?

Is there an impact on performance if its not threaded?
 
donjfred said:
Thank yopu 333Smitty and mwezell for your replies and photos.

Is jackies Tuner a "clamp on" or does it need to be threaded to the barrel?

Is there an impact on performance if its not threaded?
Click to expand...

That's a controversial subject. My personal opinion is that it does not hurt the shooting to cut on the muzzle end some if you use good sharp hs tooling and don't induce too much heat. If you open the tuner and clamp w/o turning the barrel down some, you would have to cut the tuner with a taper to match that of the barrel taper. I can't speak for what it would do to clamp it on in terms of accuracy. If you epoxy it, you would have to open the tuner a bit oversize and somehow align it with the bore while the epoxy sets. MHO is to thread and forget it.---Mike Ezell
 
Jackie Schmidt Tuners

Jackie's tuners are threaded onto the barrel.

IMHO Threading the end of a "centerfire" barrel does not hurt accuracy.
 
Since Butch mentioned me, I'll try to share some of my limited experience with a tuner on a 30BR.

As related earlier Mike Ezell threaded my 30BR barrel and installed one of Butch's tuners two weeks ago. I spent the best part of a day at the 100 yard range (Gallatin TN) adjusting and shooting in switchy, gusty wind. I think I found that the tuner only needed to be moved a small amount to have an effect. I shot a 100/200 yard match at Gallatin last w/e and the rifle performed well. As Mike Ezell related, I too, probably would have shot better had I listened to what the barrel & tuner were telling me.

I have been shooting VFS matches for three years and the barrel I currently use has about 4000 rounds on it. Frequently, I have had unexplained vertical in 100 yard matches (always held in the mornings) and have, for the most part, shot better in the afternoon @ 200 yards. I now tend to believe I have been out of tune in the cool mornings and in tune later in the day.

A tuner isn't magic, but so far it appears that I can tune out the vertical and get truer wind reading than before. Last week's match was maybe the first time I was able to be reasonably consistent in reading the wind and shooting conditions.

I don't have a lot of free time to spend at the range trying different loads for different conditions. I always go to a match preloaded. It looks as though I will be able to tune the barrel to fit the temperature. That's my early impression, but it's early in the game. Along with good wind flags, it looks like a tuner is a viable tool.

Hope this helps,
Rick Fox
 
threading The End Of Barrel does NOT hurt Accuracy

A while back, a famous shooter stated that he had concluded that threading the end of a barrel was a sure fire killer of accuracy. After he published his so called "test" to prove this, it was obvious that some outside source, (perhaps a bottle of Jack Daniels), was involved in the procedure.

The tuner I use has 2 inches of .900 36 tpi on the barrel,the tuner has a corresponding thread. The split alllows two 6-32 pinch bolts to lock the tuner. It also incorporates a "dampenning" feature, which I believe widens the tune window. The design is also very "user friendly" at the line, no small matter if you decide adjustments are called for.

One reason I favor the very fine thread is that it is easy to lock the tuner with very little pressure, and you can fine adjust it, 1/4 turn is only about .007 inch advance.

One of the problems we have with this subject is there are shooters who interject opinions into the discussion who know very little about 100-200 yard Benchrest, and do not test their ideas in the only lab that counts, The Competitive Arena.

Personally, I have no stake in what shooters do. While I have built a few tuners for close friends, I have no desire to produce them. I just get an idea, build something, try it in Competition, and report to this Forum what I have found out. Shooters can sift through all of the claims and figure out what works.........jackie
 
This seems to support

jackie schmidt said:
A while back, a famous shooter stated that he had concluded that threading the end of a barrel was a sure fire killer of accuracy. After he published his so called "test" to prove this, it was obvious that some outside source, (perhaps a bottle of Jack Daniels), was involved in the procedure.

The tuner I use has 2 inches of .900 36 tpi on the barrel,the tuner has a corresponding thread. The split alllows two 6-32 pinch bolts to lock the tuner. It also incorporates a "dampenning" feature, which I believe widens the tune window. The design is also very "user friendly" at the line, no small matter if you decide adjustments are called for.

One reason I favor the very fine thread is that it is easy to lock the tuner with very little pressure, and you can fine adjust it, 1/4 turn is only about .007 inch advance.

One of the problems we have with this subject is there are shooters who interject opinions into the discussion who know very little about 100-200 yard Benchrest, and do not test their ideas in the only lab that counts, The Competitive Arena.

Personally, I have no stake in what shooters do. While I have built a few tuners for close friends, I have no desire to produce them. I just get an idea, build something, try it in Competition, and report to this Forum what I have found out. Shooters can sift through all of the claims and figure out what works.........jackie
Click to expand...

What Gene Beggs has been saying of late. One can pretty much use theperature to tune their barrel. It surely will simplify the process if that proves to be true. What I am wondering is if a tuner will turn a small cloverleaf into a round hole. I find sometimes that I can not make holes round no matter what I do. If a tuner will do this it will make powder choice a lot broader and easier I think.
 
I shot this target a little while ago in about a 15mph wind from 4 o' clock with an untested load. They ain't too purty but they did respond to the tuner adjustments. I started with the tuner set at "0" and moved two numbers at a time to "8" starting with target #1 and going to 5. I then adjusted the tuner to "3" and shot on the sighter. Eight marks represent a 1/4 turn of the tuner. I thought it was interesting that targets 1 and 5 are just about mirror images of one another,1/4 turn apart...both ugly though.----Mike Ezell
 
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What I was talking about - -

mwezell said:
I shot this target a little while ago in about a 15mph wind from 4 o' clock with an untested load. They ain't too purty but they did respond to the tuner adjustments. I started with the tuner set at "0" and moved two numbers at a time to "8" starting with target #1 and going to 5. I then adjusted the tuner to "3" and shot on the sighter. Eight marks represent a 1/4 turn of the tuner. I thought it was interesting that targets 1 and 5 are just about mirror images of one another,1/4 turn apart...both ugly though.----Mike Ezell
Click to expand...

was being able to tune out the small cloverleaf holes like you have there. from my experience, it is difficult to make a barrel that shoots groups like this to shoot any better. I was hoping that tuners might do that thus making so-so barrels usable.
 
Pete Wass said:
was being able to tune out the small cloverleaf holes like you have there. from my experience, it is difficult to make a barrel that shoots groups like this to shoot any better. I was hoping that tuners might do that thus making so-so barrels usable.
Click to expand...

Pete, The barrel shoots pretty good. The load was an "untested" load and didn't shoot very well but did respond to tuner adjustment. I think that the tuner will help get the potential from a given combination, not make a bad combination good. What I surmise from this target is that in the condition I was shooting(pretty bad), that this load(and shooter)would do no better than mid to high
.2's in my gun. I think a tuner does exactly what you are asking in regard to takeing big groups and making them better,and the other way around,predictably. It can also make a good combination look bad just by turning it a small amount. Again, predictably. I think that's the key. Look at the sighter. I set the tuner to "3" after shooting the other five targets. The first two went into a little hole and the other is straight with condition. (let up)The point of shooting this target was not to shoot the smallest groups but to prove the tuner changes them in a predictable way. A 1/4 turn on my gun takes it to two extremes.
Personally, I hope no one else uses one.;)
 
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