Trick 10-22 VS Volquartsen

Looks like somebody needs to win a bunch of matches shooting against those expensive bolt guns to cause folks to see the light. Is that a possibility?
 
With the scope Tony,

PakRat said:
Hi Peter

Does your 2800 include the cost of the scope? Care to share the numbers

My little BR rig Sabre:

CST Action, Bolt, and Trigger group - 'bout 650 (Trigger that comes with the group is a Grand Master set to just under a pound)
Lilja Barrel - 400
Turner Stock- 300
Weaver 36X - 400

Action is bedded with single screw

Pro-X PRXII tuner

Could I have gone cheaper on a couple of things, probably, and still have a first rate gun.

Shooting some pretty good Center-X

Planning on sending it down to Joe for a tune up with all his hard learned accuracy improvements. Its already a shooter in its own right (Too bas it has me as an operator)

Given the right conditions, I believe these SA's will out shoot any bolt gun out there.

Have a great nite all

Tony Purdy
The Purdy Prescription (PRX)
Does your rifle shoot "Purdy Good?"
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It comes out to around $2600.

Action: Myers $1100. Including scope bases

Shilen Ratchet Fitted$550

Stock: McMillin fitted around $800.

Trigger : Re-built Jewell $100.

Weaver Scope: $350.

Scope Rings: $50.

Tuner $160

Total: $3110

YIKES! No wonder I'm Poor! So, it's about what I said in the beginning. I have since replaced the barrel with a Wilson which I fitted myself :). The Ratchet is just so-so.

Pete
 
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I would agree on the Gunsmith Costs, BUT

ArtS said:
The relative accuracy has been discussed on Rimfire Central several times. I measured the targets and did the math before building a 10/22 and these numbers are close to what others have calculated. If you look at what I would call a "perfect group" requirement, then a group size of .349" could theoretically score a 200 on an ABRA target. A group of .276 could theoretically score a 2500 on an ARA target. Any gun shooting groups larger than these numbers can only luck into a perfect score.

I will say that about any modern benchrest bolt gun will shoot at least into a 1/4". The average Ruger kit gun will probably be able to shoot into the .35 sometimes, but .25 is a sometimes thing. With a little barrel work and tuning, it is pretty easy to get a gun that will shot .25. As Joe says, the barrel work is not excessive and isn't a huge addition to the total cost.

I don't want to put too fine a point on it, but the difference between auto bolt gun cost is the gunsmith cost.

Compare the two types.

You are talking the same barrels. A Kidd action and bolt with all the needed hardware is 350-375; a 10X XIII bolt action is 795.

A Don Stith stock is 300 no matter what; inletting/bedding is the same. A Jewell trigger is 175; the best Ruger triggers are 300.

Both guns use the same tuners.

Bottom line there is a parts difference of around $300. Difference being that the barrel work on the Ruger is, as quoted, about 300, and the smith work on a competitive bolt gun is four figures.

I think the reason you haven't seen more auto's in ARA etc is that there are a lot of good Rugers out there, but the culture hasn't advanced to the point where a large portion of the shooters will commit to that last $300 push toward a really exceptional rifle. When they do, scores will go up in ABRA and some may start to compete across the sanctioning bodies.

Another issue is that the bulk of the auto shooters do not come to the sport with a benchrest background. Their equipment choices, particularly in their stocks and triggers do not lend themselves to the application. That, coupled with a large lack of tuners hurts the effort. This is an educational issue, which appears to be improving by the month.
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Not may people do their own, me having been one of them. I will be doing mine in the future if I ever do another. If one looks at it from this point of view, any of us will pay $60. to, at some Auto Dealerships, in excess of $100. per hour to get our cars worked on. Would it take me 3.5 hours to fit a barrel to a Rifle? Probably the first couple might take more. Bedding; yeah, I've done a few pillar and bedding jobs but none of them were pretty. So, if we want good stuff and can't do it ourselves, we have to pay for what we get.

It will be interesting to see how popular this segment of the Sport becomes. Other than the initial $650. the ammo costs are going to be about the same and here in lies the real cost of this Sport. I have an acquaintance who is a Professional Water Skier. He told me he has two GPS controlled tow boats and spent $1500. on gas for them last year. Its all a matter of what one's perceived worth is, eh. I wouldn't hazard a guess as to what those two boats cost but I'll bet is was way more than the $16 grand I have in Benchrest rifles, etc.

Pete
 
Pete Wass said:
Not may people do their own, me having been one of them. I will be doing mine in the future if I ever do another. If one looks at it from this point of view, any of us will pay $60. to, at some Auto Dealerships, in excess of $100. per hour to get our cars worked on. Would it take me 3.5 hours to fit a barrel to a Rifle? Probably the first couple might take more. Bedding; yeah, I've done a few pillar and bedding jobs but none of them were pretty. So, if we want good stuff and can't do it ourselves, we have to pay for what we get.

It will be interesting to see how popular this segment of the Sport becomes. Other than the initial $650. the ammo costs are going to be about the same and here in lies the real cost of this Sport. I have an acquaintance who is a Professional Water Skier. He told me he has two GPS controlled tow boats and spent $1500. on gas for them last year. Its all a matter of what one's perceived worth is, eh. I wouldn't hazard a guess as to what those two boats cost but I'll bet is was way more than the $16 grand I have in Benchrest rifles, etc.

Pete
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Pete

I too do my own, because I like doing it. Most of my work has been custom bolt hunting rifles for a lot of years. I appreciate how hard a pro gunsmith works for his money. My point was that there are a lot of people who do their own with autos. I think the disconnect comes when they don't spend just a few hundred more getting some fine tuning done which they can't do because they don't have a lathe and tooling. The work could be done on the barrel for $200-300. On the other side of the fence, 90% of the bolt guys hire it all out. Back in the summer, I wanted to get a barrel threaded and chambered for an action, since I didn't have the reamer I wanted to try. I contacted several smiths who do a lot of target rimfire rifles. I finally gave up, because I told every one what I wanted, and was told by all of them that they would be glad to "build my rifle". They simply would not address the fact that I just wanted a barrel threaded and chambered. They all had a list of requirements that included bringing ammo and the tuner so they could set the gun up. That paradigm is why there is such a difference in bolts and autos.

That said, I have to admit that I don't think autos will ever absolutely equal bolt guns, just due to the practical issue of the vagaries of an auto. However I do believe that autos can be developed to he point that they have the ability to score competitive targets in the current benchrest associations. Once they reliably shoot in the teens, they have the ability to score on all the current targets.
 
Very well stated ArtS

ArtS said:
Pete

I too do my own, because I like doing it. Most of my work has been custom bolt hunting rifles for a lot of years. I appreciate how hard a pro gunsmith works for his money. My point was that there are a lot of people who do their own with autos. I think the disconnect comes when they don't spend just a few hundred more getting some fine tuning done which they can't do because they don't have a lathe and tooling. The work could be done on the barrel for $200-300. On the other side of the fence, 90% of the bolt guys hire it all out. Back in the summer, I wanted to get a barrel threaded and chambered for an action, since I didn't have the reamer I wanted to try. I contacted several smiths who do a lot of target rimfire rifles. I finally gave up, because I told every one what I wanted, and was told by all of them that they would be glad to "build my rifle". They simply would not address the fact that I just wanted a barrel threaded and chambered. They all had a list of requirements that included bringing ammo and the tuner so they could set the gun up. That paradigm is why there is such a difference in bolts and autos.

That said, I have to admit that I don't think autos will ever absolutely equal bolt guns, just due to the practical issue of the vagaries of an auto. However I do believe that autos can be developed to he point that they have the ability to score competitive targets in the current benchrest associations. Once they reliably shoot in the teens, they have the ability to score on all the current targets.
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I agree with you 100% on everything you have said.

Thanks for writing this.

Pete
 
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