J
Jay Wolf
Guest
Has anyone had experience with a tricked out 10-22 being more or less accurate than a Volquartsen?
Volquartsen is up their with rest of them
most of the 10/22 parts or gun maker are about equal 1/2 " group @ 50 is what they try to achieve some day one is better than the other .
what are you looking for in a 10/22?
Joe
J
Jay Wolf
Guest
10-22 Accuracy
I put together a 10-22 with Volquartsen trigger parts, bull barrel , big scope, thumb hole stock and it does shoot .5 at 50 yards
I found that cost wise ,I had almost as much in the 10-22 as if I had bought a Volquartsen. Are the Volquartsen rifles more accurate? The latest thing they are promoting is the 17 WSM caliber. I wonder if it is what they claim.
I put together a 10-22 with Volquartsen trigger parts, bull barrel , big scope, thumb hole stock and it does shoot .5 at 50 yards
I found that cost wise ,I had almost as much in the 10-22 as if I had bought a Volquartsen. Are the Volquartsen rifles more accurate? The latest thing they are promoting is the 17 WSM caliber. I wonder if it is what they claim.
The rifles no and the 17 wsm never shot one .
Dusty Stevens
Hollow Point Dispenser
I have an x ring by tac sol. It has a few very nice features like the 2 recoil slides so it doesnt bind like the single ruger design. As far as accuracy i cant tell it from my kidd supergrade and they are both above any other ones ive seen
A
ArtS
Guest
Accuracy is something that gets discussed a lot on 10/22 forums, but a lot of 10/22 shooters don't have a good handle on what is good. This isn't meant as a slam, but most of the shooters fall into the casual shooter category and are never exposed to really accurate .22 rimfires. It seems like everyone is really amazed when an upgraded 10/22 shoots a 1/2" group. The beauty of a 10/22 is that it can be upgraded, to a point, without the services of a gunsmith and with no real metal work being done. Basically, you use a Chinese Menu system of 1 from column A, one from B, one from C etc. Then you bolt the pieces together. This generally give a very trouble free gun that will shoot 1/2" center to center groups. However, since the aftermarket parts have to be designed to work with about any action, trigger etc, they are made to rather loose specs. If you want to go past that to a really competitive gun, hand work and fitting between parts will be needed, and the barrel will need to be hand finished. These are the same things and the same level of detail recquired in any other shooting discipline to reach the top level of accuracy. I scanned a target I shot two days before our state meet that was shot at the end of a session of ammo selection and tuner adjustment.
The two targets noted in the lower row are a 5 shot group (left) and a 10 shot group (right) with Lapua Midas, which this barrel prefers. This is a standard ARA target and the center bull is very close to 1/2". The 5 shot group measured 0.109" and the right group was ruined by poor trigger work but was still in the low to mid .2's. The other 9 shots were in the high .1's. That shows the level that 10/22's can achieve, which is very close to competitive bolt rifles.
The two targets noted in the lower row are a 5 shot group (left) and a 10 shot group (right) with Lapua Midas, which this barrel prefers. This is a standard ARA target and the center bull is very close to 1/2". The 5 shot group measured 0.109" and the right group was ruined by poor trigger work but was still in the low to mid .2's. The other 9 shots were in the high .1's. That shows the level that 10/22's can achieve, which is very close to competitive bolt rifles.
I'd bet they'd all be in the Top 100!
Well I don't know for sure but right now I am #2 in TEXAS and 48th Nationally and 66th on the A line ,Maybe if I bought a little better ammo other than that cheapo Center X ,I might be able to win that Ford King Ranch pick up
What do you think Linekin?
Lol
Joe
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Joe, I'd pass on the Ford
I think you've got your guns shooting great. But more importantly you're having fun. I saw that at the TC.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some of the 10-22s in the Top 25. There are other variables at play here other than the actions.
Correct me if I'm wrong Joe but isn't the 10 ring on the ABRA target smaller than the IR50 target? Given that, & your recent 200 I think anything's possible.
Keith
I'm not trying to be a smart butt it's about $2500 difference people build bolt guns for supposedly supreme accuracy but technology is catching up and I feel in the very near future there won't be much of a difference at all but when you look at the broad spectrum of things it's all in what you want to get out of these rim fire games what I am trying to do is making it more affordable for people to be able to play whatever game they want for less money and still be competitive
Joe
Joe
Pete Wass
Well-known member
How much is
A custom Autoloader, one of the new double pin support actions, trigger, barrel and stock? I only have about 2800. in the last bolt gun I had built.
Pete
A custom Autoloader, one of the new double pin support actions, trigger, barrel and stock? I only have about 2800. in the last bolt gun I had built.
Pete
Joe, how many of these guns, in your opinion, are competing at the upper evels of benchrest shooting? How much of an outlier do you think yours is? I assume with your time and effort that you have a better mousetrap.
Even though I may be of the opinion that it will be tough to consistantly run with the better bolt guns for a variety of reasons, this is the type of stuff that is simply good for the sport and good for participation.
Had no idea the price points were that reasonable, kind of like " bracket racing" if you will.
Anyway, good job, keep up the effort.
Even though I may be of the opinion that it will be tough to consistantly run with the better bolt guns for a variety of reasons, this is the type of stuff that is simply good for the sport and good for participation.
Had no idea the price points were that reasonable, kind of like " bracket racing" if you will.
Anyway, good job, keep up the effort.
P
PakRat
Guest
Hi Peter
Does your 2800 include the cost of the scope? Care to share the numbers
My little BR rig Sabre:
CST Action, Bolt, and Trigger group - 'bout 650 (Trigger that comes with the group is a Grand Master set to just under a pound)
Lilja Barrel - 400
Turner Stock- 300
Weaver 36X - 400
Action is bedded with single screw
Pro-X PRXII tuner
Could I have gone cheaper on a couple of things, probably, and still have a first rate gun.
Shooting some pretty good Center-X
Planning on sending it down to Joe for a tune up with all his hard learned accuracy improvements. Its already a shooter in its own right (Too bas it has me as an operator)
Given the right conditions, I believe these SA's will out shoot any bolt gun out there.
Have a great nite all
Tony Purdy
The Purdy Prescription (PRX)
Does your rifle shoot "Purdy Good?"
Does your 2800 include the cost of the scope? Care to share the numbers
My little BR rig Sabre:
CST Action, Bolt, and Trigger group - 'bout 650 (Trigger that comes with the group is a Grand Master set to just under a pound)
Lilja Barrel - 400
Turner Stock- 300
Weaver 36X - 400
Action is bedded with single screw
Pro-X PRXII tuner
Could I have gone cheaper on a couple of things, probably, and still have a first rate gun.
Shooting some pretty good Center-X
Planning on sending it down to Joe for a tune up with all his hard learned accuracy improvements. Its already a shooter in its own right (Too bas it has me as an operator)
Given the right conditions, I believe these SA's will out shoot any bolt gun out there.
Have a great nite all
Tony Purdy
The Purdy Prescription (PRX)
Does your rifle shoot "Purdy Good?"
Here is what you can Build one for
Parts
CST PRO-22 $630
Shilen 4G $300
Barrel work $300
stock $350
PRX II tuner $140
Total $1720
if you go a different barrel you can take off $300 on barrel work
Joe
Joe
Yes sir the 10 ring is 1/8" when we put this card together I wanted the difficulty to be in-between a 50/50 card and ara card I new we could build the guns to shoot it if every thing was right its a challenge .
Joe
A
ArtS
Guest
The relative accuracy has been discussed on Rimfire Central several times. I measured the targets and did the math before building a 10/22 and these numbers are close to what others have calculated. If you look at what I would call a "perfect group" requirement, then a group size of .349" could theoretically score a 200 on an ABRA target. A group of .276 could theoretically score a 2500 on an ARA target. Any gun shooting groups larger than these numbers can only luck into a perfect score.
I will say that about any modern benchrest bolt gun will shoot at least into a 1/4". The average Ruger kit gun will probably be able to shoot into the .35 sometimes, but .25 is a sometimes thing. With a little barrel work and tuning, it is pretty easy to get a gun that will shot .25. As Joe says, the barrel work is not excessive and isn't a huge addition to the total cost.
I don't want to put too fine a point on it, but the difference between auto bolt gun cost is the gunsmith cost.
Compare the two types.
You are talking the same barrels. A Kidd action and bolt with all the needed hardware is 350-375; a 10X XIII bolt action is 795.
A Don Stith stock is 300 no matter what; inletting/bedding is the same. A Jewell trigger is 175; the best Ruger triggers are 300.
Both guns use the same tuners.
Bottom line there is a parts difference of around $300. Difference being that the barrel work on the Ruger is, as quoted, about 300, and the smith work on a competitive bolt gun is four figures.
I think the reason you haven't seen more auto's in ARA etc is that there are a lot of good Rugers out there, but the culture hasn't advanced to the point where a large portion of the shooters will commit to that last $300 push toward a really exceptional rifle. When they do, scores will go up in ABRA and some may start to compete across the sanctioning bodies.
Another issue is that the bulk of the auto shooters do not come to the sport with a benchrest background. Their equipment choices, particularly in their stocks and triggers do not lend themselves to the application. That, coupled with a large lack of tuners hurts the effort. This is an educational issue, which appears to be improving by the month.
I will say that about any modern benchrest bolt gun will shoot at least into a 1/4". The average Ruger kit gun will probably be able to shoot into the .35 sometimes, but .25 is a sometimes thing. With a little barrel work and tuning, it is pretty easy to get a gun that will shot .25. As Joe says, the barrel work is not excessive and isn't a huge addition to the total cost.
I don't want to put too fine a point on it, but the difference between auto bolt gun cost is the gunsmith cost.
Compare the two types.
You are talking the same barrels. A Kidd action and bolt with all the needed hardware is 350-375; a 10X XIII bolt action is 795.
A Don Stith stock is 300 no matter what; inletting/bedding is the same. A Jewell trigger is 175; the best Ruger triggers are 300.
Both guns use the same tuners.
Bottom line there is a parts difference of around $300. Difference being that the barrel work on the Ruger is, as quoted, about 300, and the smith work on a competitive bolt gun is four figures.
I think the reason you haven't seen more auto's in ARA etc is that there are a lot of good Rugers out there, but the culture hasn't advanced to the point where a large portion of the shooters will commit to that last $300 push toward a really exceptional rifle. When they do, scores will go up in ABRA and some may start to compete across the sanctioning bodies.
Another issue is that the bulk of the auto shooters do not come to the sport with a benchrest background. Their equipment choices, particularly in their stocks and triggers do not lend themselves to the application. That, coupled with a large lack of tuners hurts the effort. This is an educational issue, which appears to be improving by the month.