I keep seeing a lot of reference to a Sako extractor in a 700 style action and this led me to asking this. Jim Borden is a well respected 'smith and I know he went the route of installing a Sako type extractor in his Alpine/Timberline actions. Why did he go this route instead of a Rem. style extractor? This is not brought up to bash his actions as I purchased one and I think they look great. I'm just curious why he went this route. Stiller has done the same thing in his TAC/Predator actions.
"Three Rings of Steel" Question/Discussion
- Thread starter crb
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Con Cross
Guest
Mr. Robertb, would you belive, that perhaps cost had something to do with it?
Con
Con
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
Sako style extractors are in custom actions... and they do not cause a cartridge to blow up... but they also do not contain the cartridge as well as a original 700 does. It is the conversion of a 700 to a weaker design that is the point of this thread. Custom actions are often set up differently than a 700 conversion. ... and any 3 lug action is different again... The point is the three rings of steel is not theory.. it is fact.
longshooter
New member
Reading this thread has caused me to wonder how a m98 Mauser action would compare in gas and debris blowback with similarly overpressured rounds. If not going too far off the topic, it would be good to know the m98 faults. Any input?
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Con Cross
Guest
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Butch Lambert
Active member
What's your point Mr. Con? Do you just like to see yourself in print?
Butch
Butch
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
I think comparing the extractor systems of 3 lugs actions and 2 lug actions is meaningless...
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Jay Idaho
Guest
I think that the Gilkes has a full diameter bolt that traps the extractor in the front of the receiver if things go awry. The Krico-902 has the extractor in the bottom of the locking lug recess when in battery affectively containing it between the two nearest lugs in the event of high pressure gas coming from the chamber area rearward.
Am I thinking correctly?
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J. Valentine
Guest
The Rem extractor by it'self is inferior to the Sako extractor however the slot that you need in the bolt to have a Sako extractor makes the settup not as strong as the Rem 3 rings of steel design.
People who opt for the Sako extractor feel that the loss in strength is less of a potential problem than the weaker original extractor.
Simple matter of personal choice.
People who opt for the Sako extractor feel that the loss in strength is less of a potential problem than the weaker original extractor.
Simple matter of personal choice.
MColeman
Club Coordinator
I've heard others say this but in my 40+ years of experience w/Remingtons I've never encountered extractor failure except when I welded, excuse me, I meant to say some idiot welded a ruptured case into the bolt face. Once I got the brass out with my Dremel tool the extractor worked perfectly.
jackie schmidt
New member
Many are missing the point
It is not a "strength" thing. Cutting the slot that holds the Sako Extractor in a 700 does not "weaken" the bolt so that it is liable to fail. The problem is in the event of a catostrophic case failure, there is nothing what so ever in the way of keeping that 3/8 inch long piece of steel from exiting down that right raceway.
The next time you pick up a Rem 700 with a Sako conversion, close the bolt, and look down that right bolt raceway. A "picture" is worth a thousand words.
But, as we have said. Problems can only occur in the event that the shooter does something really careless, or stupid. In all other circumstances, the Sako is probably superior to the standard Factory offerring......jackie
It is not a "strength" thing. Cutting the slot that holds the Sako Extractor in a 700 does not "weaken" the bolt so that it is liable to fail. The problem is in the event of a catostrophic case failure, there is nothing what so ever in the way of keeping that 3/8 inch long piece of steel from exiting down that right raceway.
The next time you pick up a Rem 700 with a Sako conversion, close the bolt, and look down that right bolt raceway. A "picture" is worth a thousand words.
But, as we have said. Problems can only occur in the event that the shooter does something really careless, or stupid. In all other circumstances, the Sako is probably superior to the standard Factory offerring......jackie
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
What do you base that on?
I can hang a few hundred pounds on a 700 extractor and it does not break... I have only seen a few broken or malfunctioning 700 extractors in 40 years of gunsmithing and they were fixed with no great problem. I have seen as many problems with all makes of commercial and military rifles...
ultramagmed
JKM
Good One!!!!
Mr. Lambert, exactly what I was thinking.
Would you believe that perhaps everyone feels this way?
In my own technical mind this is what I think.
JKM
Mr. Lambert, exactly what I was thinking.
Would you believe that perhaps everyone feels this way?
In my own technical mind this is what I think.
JKM
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Con Cross
Guest
Mr. Longshooter, would you believe, that you only can get the best answer if you buy a cheap ex military 98 Mauser rifle and do some remotely fired serious experiments.
Con
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j mckinnie
Guest
What?
Con Peter PPPMMM.you dont know the answers wow?Who will we rely on now?
Con Peter PPPMMM.you dont know the answers wow?Who will we rely on now?
longshooter
New member
I was thinking more along the lines of smiths and members responding with known documented cases of mishaps associated with the Mauser action. As I do not have disposable income, it would preclude me from doing as you have suggested.
As I will be accurizing and sporterizing a 1937 Mauser over the winter, this subject has merit for me, as I could incorporate any suggested mods during the work.
Nonetheless, thank you for your reply.
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Mike Bryant
Active member
Looking at an old Siamese Mauser that I have, it looks like it would be very unlikely for an extractor to be blown out of a Mauser. There is a ring of steel the encircles the front end of the bolt with only the extractor fitting through a slot on the outside of the ring. An overload would have to shear the extractor at the extractor lip, where it fits in a groove at the front of the bolt and at the spring ring that holds the extractor to the bolt. I wouldn't worry about the extractor on a Mauser.
The only good reason I could forsee the need for sako extractor if you wanted to open up the boltface to accept a larger base.
Is there any other reason people go to the sako on a 700?
I'd save the money and put it in a barrel or optics or something that adds significant performance.
Ben
Is there any other reason people go to the sako on a 700?
I'd save the money and put it in a barrel or optics or something that adds significant performance.
Ben
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henrya
Guest
You can also open up a Remington bolt and install a new Remington extractor for the larger size. The result is no degradation of the enclosed bolt head safety feature. I have one done this way and have had several others. Works perfectly if well done. Used to be a .222 face now a .308 face.
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J. Pendergraft
Guest
Hard to do without a CNC Mill isn't it?