Thinking About F Class

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pendennis

Guest
One of the guys at our club has been after me to try F Class, particularly F/TR. Over the winter, I'll completely make up my mind, but I'm leaning heavily toward trying the sport.

I currently own a Remington XR100, chambered in .308 Winchester. For those who may be unfamiliar with this rifle, it's a non-catalogued rifle offered by Gander Mountain. Catalogued versions were chambered in .204 Ruger, .223 Remington, and .22-250 Remington. It has a thumbhole stock, XP100 action, 26" barrel, and Remington XR trigger.

My particular rifle has a .308 barrel with a 1-10" twist. Out of the box, it's one of the most acccurate rifles I've ever owned. Mounted on top is a Bushnell 4200, 8-32x40 scope. For starters, it seems like enough rifle to be competitive.

I've also been looking at the Savage F-Class F/TR, and I've also fired my friend's, chambered in .308, and it's quite a nice rifle, especially that it's competitive right out of the box.

My question about the Savage concerns the barrel twist. The catalogue shows a 1-12" twist, a bit slower than my Remington. At greater distances, with heavier bullets, it would seem that the Remington has the edge. Am I over-thinking the differences? My plan would be to use 168 gr SMK's.

Follows is a picture of a recent group fired at 200 yards. The load is a 168gr SMK, 41.5gr IMR 8208 XBR. The group is .212" and .101 moa (center-to-center). The max size of the group is .507" and .242 moa (On Target Precision Calculator software). So, the rifle is capable of excellent accuracy. (This group was off the bench, and not prone. I have shot 100, 7x with this rifle from a bipod)

RemingtonXR10010282010.jpg
 
pendennis...Your group is FANTASTIC!!! Please advise as to whether your group is 3 shots or 5 shots. Either way it is AWESOME!!!
 
nice group..

You'll go alright with groups like that - plenty good enough to give F Class a try anyway
 
First - shoot what you have now and enjoy t he sport. Except the 168 gr SMK will NOT shoot out to 1000 yards as it goes subsonic before there. You will need to shoot 175 gr SMK's.

Second, the Savage F/TR stock is an abomination. The add-on cheek rest is plastic held in place by two wood screws. If you look at the Savages, look at the BR model as the stock is MUCH better.

Third, If I were to want a Savage for F/TR, I would buy a LRPV action and an aftermarket barrel such as a Pac-Nor and go to Savage Shooters Supply and get a stock from them. You will save money and end up with a better rifle.

I shoot Savages (have a bunch) and love them all. My current F/TR gun is a 110 BVSS rebarrelled with a Krieger 30" barrel and smith by Mr Larry Racine ( http://www.lprgunsmith.com/index.htm ). He is a great fellow to get to know and have Savage work done.

George
 
168 gr

I'm shooting 168 gr Hornady A-max in a Remington 1:10 twist .308 Win and it will hold a 1 MOA waterline at 1,000 yards. I'm using 45.5 grs of Varget (2800 fps), Federal GM210M primers and Lapua Brass at 2.94" OAL. Now if I could just figure out the wind :) - nhk
 
you will need a diferent scope if you are going to shoot 1000 yards, the Bushnell 4200's have good glass and are clear, but do not have enough elevation adjustment. they have app. 24 moa adjustment total, and you will need app. 30-35. even if you shim your base to use all 24, you will still be short, if you plan on 600 you might be fine.


also, the 168 smk won't make a 1000 supersonic, a better choice would be 175 smk or 175 or 185 berger, all these should work fine in either twist barrel you mentioned
 
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Elevation

Jeff T said:
you will need a diferent scope if you are going to shoot 1000 yards, the Bushnell 4200's have good glass and are clear, but do not have enough elevation adjustment. they have app. 24 moa adjustment total, and you will need app. 30-35. even if you shim your base to use all 24, you will still be short, if you plan on 600 you might be fine.
Click to expand...

Sounds right. I have a 20 MOA base and with a 200 yard zero my come up for 1,000 is 28 MOA. - nhk
 
my son in law wins all the time witha 6-24 4200 bushnel scope. often against others that are more expensive. pedennis- you need to go shoot in match. that is more than enough accuracy . quite a few whoo shoot 308 shot either a 175,185 , or a 155. i do not shoot F-TR because i like to shoot of of a pedistal not a bi-pod. roninflag
 
You are shooting well enough to compets in Mich, if you were from Minnesota I would have told you F-class was recently outlawed by the state as I would not want to compete with (lose to) you as you really are shooting well.

We seem to get a little mixed up when the term 168 g SMK comes up. It is well known that the 168 SMK does not do well at 1,000 yards when fired out of a 308, that does not mean that other 168 gr bullets will not perform well at that range. Physics does not mind that the 168 SMK weighs 168 g what it does not like apparently in the angle of the boattail, so other 168 g bullets are probably not cursed with dreadful LR results. The 175 SMK is a great performer in the 308 and can reach 1,000 yards supersonically easy with a barrel of 22 inches or better. The 175 g SMK is even reasonably well behaved is many guns as it transitions between faster and slower than the speed of sound.

wade
 
168 gr bullets

wadebrown said:
We seem to get a little mixed up when the term 168 g SMK comes up. It is well known that the 168 SMK does not do well at 1,000 yards when fired out of a 308, that does not mean that other 168 gr bullets will not perform well at that range. Physics does not mind that the 168 SMK weighs 168 g what it does not like apparently in the angle of the boattail, so other 168 g bullets are probably not cursed with dreadful LR results.
Click to expand...

I knew about the 168 gr MK and wanted to shoot a 168 gr bullet, that's why I went with the A-Max. Cost was a factor too. Actually I wanted to shoot the 155 gr Palma bullets, which I already had left over from another rifle, but the throat was too long on my new .308. - nhk
 
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Shoot what you have first!

A few years ago I decided I wanted to try high power. I had a custom space gun built by one of the best gunsmiths in the US. Turns out that even with a lens I could not see the target at 600 yards. Sold the gun and stopped shooting for a couple of years, Bought a Savage F-12 and tried F-Class and just love it. The point is if I would have tried high power without spending all that money I would have quickly realized I could not do it.

So don't spend a lot of money until you have tried it.

-Chip-
 
nhkuehl said:
I knew about the 168 gr MK and wanted to shoot a 168 gr bullet, that's why I went with the A-Max. Cost was a factor too. Actually I wanted to shoot the 155 gr Palma bullets, which I already had left over from another rifle, but the throat was too long on my new .308. - nhk
Click to expand...

I've managed to hold 2.880 OAL with the Sierra 155 PALMA bullet, Savage throats are long also.
 
Seating depth, length

Taildrag15X said:
I've managed to hold 2.880 OAL with the Sierra 155 PALMA bullet, Savage throats are long also.
Click to expand...

My 168 gr A-Max bullets are jumped 0.015" for an OAL of 2.940". The bearing surface of the 155 gr Palma bullets was in only in the neck about 1/8" and I wasn't comfortable about that or shooting a bearing surface that short in relation to the throat. It may just be my opinion, but I think that would lead to accelerated throat erosion. I would normally crimp a bullet in that short or if I was jumping it over 0.015", but I've been advised of the error of my ways. - nhk
 
While the 175gn SMK will work at 1,000yd, there are very much more efficient (higher BC) bullets available for 800yd and beyond - why risk losing extra points every time you get the wind a bit wrong? The 175 and 185gn Berger BT Long-Range models are very good performers in F/TR. The older but still very effective 190 and 200gn SMKs are excellent long-range performers too and over here at any rate are cheaper than the Bergers. IMHO, the 185gn Berger BT L-R is the best F/TR bullet for .308W. Many American Fullbore Rifle shooters prefer the 175gn version though - it shoots almost as well in the wind as the 185, but produces less felt recoil which is more of an issue for them than for Effers.

On the basis of the 168gn SMK group you've posted go with this rifle and scope and get the experience in.

Laurie,
York, England
 
If you are using the duplex reticle in the 6-24x Bushnell, then you will get by. I used the higher duplex for around 100yds, then I used the cross hair with the elevation just about bottomed out (about 1moa up), then with the scope all the way up I made 900yds. For 1000yds I used the bottom duplex. I used the Burris signiture rings to get my elevation and windage exactly right.
 
I finally settled on a scope. I'm replacing the Bushnell 4200 Elite 8-32x40, with a Leupold Benchrest 45x45 (from The Optic Zone). I had a chance last week to take a serious look at several different scopes, including a Nightforce NXS 12-42x56. The Nightforce was a beauty, but the Leupold was a bit closer to my budgeted amount for a scope. The rings and base are Leupold rings along with a long-range Leupold base with 20 moa built in.

This is going to be a several weeks-to-months program. The weather is a bit cold, not getting out of the low thirty's, with really cold winds. I'm going to have the stock bedded within the next four weeks, and start to build up some load data to study and try. I have access to a sheltered range, but it only goes to 200 yards, barely enough to zero the scope. However, it's a start, and the first matches begin in mid-March.
 
Nikon

I have two different Nikon Monarch scopes and the optics are clear, but neither track as reliably as my Leupolds. I sent one back under warranty and it's no better. Even the fine adjustment for zero can be challenging. I've put them on hunting rifles zeroed at 200 and don't touch the knobs. - nhk
 
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