the end of general discussion

When I come to this site I use the new post feature. It bothered me that my favorite site was over run by hateful threads that continually popped up in the new posts.

Large kudos to Wilbur for cleaning up the site and steering it back towards a pure discussion of benchrest instead of a place for 80% of us to express our animosity towards the other 20% and vice versa.

The people taking part in these discussions were largely not benchrest shooters to begin with. There are plenty of other sites that encourage this vitriol. Try the Hummer H2 website for a great collection of insulting geniuses bent on slamming those on the other side of any issue.

Thank you Wilbur. It was long overdue. Please do not supply a venue for political bickering on what otherwise is a fine site. We can find enough to argue about anyway. Shouldn't we have different classes in short range benchrest? Does a muzzle stop with a tuner? Is a march scope worth the money? Should sporter class be eliminated?
 
Tracker said:
I still think it was not so much what was said, it was how it was said. Think of cars driving down the street in front of your house. Nice quiet evening. Normal traffic bothers no one. Bring on the squealing tires, loud pumping music and way to fast and the neighborhoods jaw tightens and the attitudes come out. It's all in the way its presented.
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I accept what you say as being accurate, but it applies equally to both sides of a debate. Personally, I don't feel my jaw tighten no matter what a person's opinions are until I am attacked. I have found those of the moderate liberal persuasion on this forum are attacked, maligned, insulted and even accused of being less than loyal to their country. I'm sure I have many times angered conservative members but I have never intentionally been uncivil with them. (The one exception was with you tracker when I was "tongue in cheek" giving you the bird during the time you were accusing me of lying. That's all water under the bridge!)

All I ever asked is that conservative members express their disagreements about politics, etc. with respect and courtesy for those they disagree with. As hard as it is to believe all guys that shoot, build hot rods, drive pickup trucks and wear a military uniform are not conservatives, but they are Americans! We need to start talking again in this country or we are in big trouble. It's a shame we can't do it on this forum.

I wish the moderators would just enforce civil, polite behavior instead of letting their own conservative leanings affect what is censored or deleted. Members should be warned about their uncivil, impolite and insulting language not whether or not it is too liberal and "UPSETS" some of the members. Members who are upset by political discussions should not be engaging in those discussions, yet they do!!!

The issue has always been about liberal ideas that upset members, while those who spout quite inflammatory far right ideas are tolerated.

The fact that Tracker and Mr. D can NOW talk to each other civilly as we are doing now is proof of the value of allowing politics to be discussed civilly enforced by "Impartial" moderators who only enforce rules of polite discussion, not people's political opinions. Things have improved on this forum which is just what we need to reunite this country!

Can you all not see that?
 
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Dennis Sorensen said:
I am sorry that your life was consumed by the political bickering that was posted. It sure did not add anything to Benchrest Central... and I am sure no one changed their political mind about by what they read here.

3 cheers for Wilbur as far as I am concerned.
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Good one Dennis.
Go to another site for political discussion- this was causing problems so it went away I hope.

Thank you Wilbur.


Glenn:D
 
Taken as a whole, we have a good bunch on this site. We have businessmen, farmers and ranchers, educators, technical experts and expert craftsmen. For the most part we are family men with responsibility. We are the tax payers who fuel governments.

You would think that we could disagree without being disagreeable. That may be a skill to be learned. Too often we post on this site with an excess of passion and others react with too much passion.

In the past, when we were into politics, there were some posts that were nothing short of someone bating a trap to let a few fall into. There have been some sharp cutting words, insults, thrown around and I have tried to cut these thing out without comment.

I will tell you that I have usually vote Republican and I like to discuss politics. I have never deleted anyone who honestly held the other view. that would not be fair. I have tried to cut out the bitterness. Most of those posts were written in haste anyway.

I feel that we have made progress. I have made many friends on this site and I hope to make many more. There is little doubt that Wilbur was correct in putting a stop on political discussion on this site and it is a shame that the conditions forced his action.

Concho Bill
 
I look at it like this. You can like this statement or not. But it is true as true can be. If all you care to talk about is politics here at a benchrest site, then you are at the wrong website.
 
Dennis Sorensen said:
Okay, you are wrong. :D
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Dennis,

You are a nice guy I am sure, but you are not objective in terms of liberal/conservative when it comes to being a moderator. I think that is very important. Obviously anyone who doesn't want to be offended or "upset" by political discussions never has to engage in them. They don't have to read the threads and argue and get upset, but they do while still complaining! So what is their complaint then? It is that they don't want any opinion other than their own expressed on this forum. They one a one party line with only their voice and opinions heard! Members should not have to choose whether to be shooters or have the freedom to talk about politics and religion. Who created that choice? This is America!

It is Wilbur's forum and property so free speech is not protected here! So you win and you have the support of many conservative members who want only one voice heard. So we'll follow the rules and not express any terrible, liberal opinions while conservatives may say whatever they wish as has been shown lately! Let's at very, very least be honest enough to admit what this really is, that is censorship rather than concerns about being uncivil and "upsetting" sensitive, conservative members!
 
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Show me..

In another life, I was taking the plant "walkthrough" part of a senior reactor operator license exam and failed to understand a question asked by the NRC examiner. He sensed that I didn't grasp the simplicity of the question and offered a hint. With that hint and some dancing around I was able to come up with a mildly satisfactory answer. Thought I got away with it until I read the evaluation report. The examiner wrote...."candidate recognized answer when shown." I live in that context more and more these days. Any wisdom I had has been consumed by confusion.

If you'll show me where I favor one over the other I'll try to fix it.
 
Mr. D said:
Dennis,

You are a nice guy I am sure, but you are not objective in terms of liberal/conservative when it comes to being a moderator. I think that is very important. Obviously anyone who doesn't want to be offended or "upset" by political discussions never has to engage in them. They don't have to read the threads and argue and get upset, but they do while still complaining! So what is their complaint then? It is that they don't want any opinion other than their own expressed on this forum. They one a one party line with only their voice and opinions heard! Members should not have to choose whether to be shooters or have the freedom to talk about politics and religion. Who created that choice? This is America!

It is Wilbur's forum and property so free speech is not protected here! So you win and you have the support of many conservative members who want only one voice heard. So we'll follow the rules and not express any terrible, liberal opinions while conservatives may say whatever they wish as has been shown lately! Let's at very, very least be honest enough to admit what this really is, that is censorship rather than concerns about being uncivil and "upsetting" sensitive, conservative members!
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Oh Mr D. lighten up...

You ended your post with the statement - "Tell me I'm wrong."... so as a joke, not meant to be anything else I quoted your "Tell me I'm wrong" and immediately under it I said, "Okay, you're wrong. :D"

I would have thought the majority of people would have realized my statement was not to be taken seriously.
 
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MrD

Mr. D said:
You are a nice guy I am sure.

Obviously anyone who doesn't want to be offended or "upset" by political discussions never has to engage in them.[/U][/B]
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MrD
I heard a rumor that Dennis once kicked a puppy so your first line above may need to be detracted after you research the allegation.

As to your second point quoted above you are 100% correct.I like many other gun enthusiasts and competitors come to Benchrest Central just so we don't have to engage in politics hence the name given to the website-Benchrest Central.I would like to freely discuss guns without politics coming into
play and I would like to not have to pick and choose which threads I choose to observe because something political may be inside.This site is a politics free zone and should remain that way.

If anyone would like to discuss politics such as yourself you can easily do a google search for "Politics Central" and have your civil discourse over there no matter your political bent.
As this is indeed Benchrest Central we can freely and openly discuss any gun related topic you care to talk about free of worry about ones political background.In fact when we are talking about guns and gun related topics we don't want to know your political affiliation and it should never even come up as we are that free here.
Lynn
 
...great post Brad

brad541thb said:
I look at it like this. You can like this statement or not. But it is true as true can be. If all you care to talk about is politics here at a benchrest site, then you are at the wrong website.
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I think that nailed it. The baiting and trolling was just getting old.

pf

<><
 
Wilbur

Which nuke plant did you work in?
 
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Importance of some news items

I have found that every so often, a poster brings up some news item of importance and interest that is unknown to me. This is especially relevant with regards to the 2nd Amendment issues. For this reason, I request that these type items be given open display on this forum.
As for the gas and windbags, I prefer to avoid them.

best and thank you Wilbur,

nrb
 
My view

I subscribe to the idea that there were several options available to those who did not like the political threads. One was Vinny's favorite--hit the IGNORE button for those people you did not appreciate.

Or, don't read the political threads if they upset you.

Like most here, I think the rude, crude, insulting stuff had to go, but I thought that was the job of the moderators? It seemed to me the hard core rude and crude guys should have been given three strikes and then been called OUT! I mean banned after fair warning.

As I posted previously, I enjoyed the political banter, learned a few things, and even changed my mind a time or two. Maybe others learned something from me?

I am sad that a few hard core types ruined it for all the rest of us. Some people absolutely, positively think the only true and correct views are their own, and anyone who disagrees is obviously a "liberal" and wrong no matter what they say. And they just can't help insulting and name calling to refute what they find offensive.

Wilbur--I request giving us a third chance to engage in political discussions with some basic rules of conduct that if violoated will result in expulsion from the forum. Please!
 
I can remember

the problems and delays caused by the "snail darter" there.
 
Dennis Sorensen said:
Oh Mr D. lighten up...

You ended your post with the statement - "Tell me I'm wrong."... so as a joke, not meant to be anything else I quoted your "Tell me I'm wrong" and immediately under it I said, "Okay, you're wrong. :D"

I would have thought the majority of people would have realized my statement was not to be taken seriously.
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Dennis,

I like your sense of humor.. I was thinking the same thing.
And he took the bait, which made it all the better.

Here fishy fishy :)

Ben
 
Dennis Sorensen said:
Oh Mr D. lighten up...

You ended your post with the statement - "Tell me I'm wrong."... so as a joke, not meant to be anything else I quoted your "Tell me I'm wrong" and immediately under it I said, "Okay, you're wrong. :D"

I would have thought the majority of people would have realized my statement was not to be taken seriously.
Click to expand...

I did take it as a joke, but felt I needed to make the point anyway. It wasn't meant as a big personal attack, but just an attempt to get you to take a look at whether you are being objective. I know being a moderator is not an easy job, but it's easy for people like me to be critical.

I think the General Discussion Section provides a very important service for shooters to air their frustrations and begin to come closer to those "hated liberals". That was working after Wilbur told us to mind our manners and I hate to see you and Wilbur give up on a positive thing. Those that don't see its value should just not get into the discussions and then they will not be upset!
 
MrD

Mr. D said:

Those that don't see its value should just not get into the discussions and then they will not be upset!
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MrD as has been pointed out several times this is a shooting forum.If you wish to discuss politics simply find yourself a different forum.Telling viewers on a shooting forum to avoid political posts shouldn't even be mentioned or a concern.Would any of us go to a political forum and ask for help setting up a lathe or bedding a stock? I don't want to sound bitter but politics simply doesn't belong here and maybe the people seeking to bring it up on every post need to look in the mirror and ask themselves why they feel the need to disrespect Wilbur's wishes.
Lynn
 
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