Test indicators

C

coyotechet

Chet
I have test indicators of Interapid, Brown&Sharpe, Mitutoyo and Martest both in .0005 and .0001 long and short Stylus, but I can not find any long Stylus test indicators that read .0001 only in .0005. I read and hear all the time about smith’s using long Stylus indicators reading .0001.
My question is what brand of indicator are they using and where does one go to buy one?
Thanks Chet
 
i do not know, but do know that the markings
on my .0005 are so large that it is easy to read
to .0002.0003 or less.
putting a long stylus on a .0001 kills the .0001 because of the multiplication
of the stylus length.
 
coyotechet said:
I have test indicators of Interapid, Brown&Sharpe, Mitutoyo and Martest both in .0005 and .0001 long and short Stylus, but I can not find any long Stylus test indicators that read .0001 only in .0005. I read and hear all the time about smith’s using long Stylus indicators reading .0001.
My question is what brand of indicator are they using and where does one go to buy one?
Thanks Chet
Click to expand...

One of the best dealrs and repair shop for dial indicators is long island indicators.

Give them a shout



There is/was a firm in Germany that offered an electronic one.?? Fowler/Verdict??

With an Interapid with 1.5" dial and 0.0001" grads will get you pretty close.

.
 
Last edited:
Brown and sharp best test .00005 with a long stylus is what I use and trust. Don't ever assume that you can read a .0005 indicator any more accurate than .0005. just doesn't work that way. in most cases you will be lucky if you can even get .0005 accuracy. calibration and stylus location are often overlooked. The folks at long island indicators have taught me a lot about indicators. calling them would be worth the time for anyone. Lee
 
Chet,

To my knowledge, nobody makes a long-stylus, .0001 indicator. I think what most are doing is buying a tenth indicator, and changing the stock stylus for a longer one. And as mentioned below, when you do that, you change the resolution. Changing from a .500 stylus to a 1.000 stylus would cause the readings on your dial to double, i.e., from .0001 to .0002. I have a 3" stylus for my Interapid 312B-3, and if my math is correct, it turns a .0001 graduation into a .00043 graduation.

There are others who use a Mitutoyo .0001 indicator that is of small enough diameter that they can insert the stylus and body a goodly ways into the pre-bore of a barrel and indicate off of the throat area. I believe that is how Jackie does it.

As Jerry said, check out Long Island Indicator. Their website alone is a wealth of information.

Justin
 
Zebra13 said:
Chet,

To my knowledge, nobody makes a long-stylus, .0001 indicator. I think what most are doing is buying a tenth indicator, and changing the stock stylus for a longer one. And as mentioned below, when you do that, you change the resolution. Changing from a .500 stylus to a 1.000 stylus would cause the readings on your dial to double, i.e., from .0001 to .0002. I have a 3" stylus for my Interapid 312B-3, and if my math is correct, it turns a .0001 graduation into a .00043 graduation.

There are others who use a Mitutoyo .0001 indicator that is of small enough diameter that they ctan insert the stylus and body a goodly ways into the pre-bore of a barrel and indicate off of the throat area. I believe that is how Jackie does it.

As Jerry said, check out Long Island Indicator. Their website alone is a wealth of information.

Justin
Click to expand...

Yes, this is what I use.

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when you are driving down the road and the needle on your speedometer is between 55 and 60 , how fast are you going ?
no you cannot swear on a stack of bibles that you are doing 57 and not 56.
you know it is between 55 and 60 and your brain says it is closer to past the middle, so 57 or so.
same with an indicator with large gaps between hash marks.
i do not KNOW it is .0002 or .0003, BUT I DO KNOW IT IS LESS THAN .0005.
IT IS MECHANICAL.

skeetlee said:
Brown and sharp best test .00005 with a long stylus is what I use and trust. Don't ever assume that you can read a .0005 indicator any more accurate than .0005. just doesn't work that way. in most cases you will be lucky if you can even get .0005 accuracy. calibration and stylus location are often overlooked. The folks at long island indicators have taught me a lot about indicators. calling them would be worth the time for anyone. Lee
Click to expand...
 
I use the same indicator as Jackie. I do have a tenth Interapid indicator with a long stylus, but I don't like it when it is jumping over the lands.
 
Butch Lambert said:
I use the same indicator as Jackie. I do have a tenth Interapid indicator with a long stylus, but I don't like it when it is jumping over the lands.
Click to expand...

Butch I also use the Mitutoyo 513-504 .0001 same as Jackie and it reads very smoothly with know jumping of the stylus or needle as it move over the rifling.
I also have the Interapid 312B-3 .0001 short stylus and I agree the it dose not repeat very good at all as it moves over the rifling. I have a Interapid 312B-15 .0005 with the 2.750 long Stylus and it repeats very smoothly. Three of four years ago I bought and tested 4 Interapid 312B-15 to get one that would repeat smoothly as it moved over the rifling sent the other three back. I made this deal with the dealer first after having a new one that did not repeat well at all. I check all of my test indicators by how smoothly they repeat moving over the rifling. Brown & Sharpe Bestest are my favorites.

You say you have a Interapid that reads tenths with a long stylus can you give me the model number of it. I just like indicators and want one at reads tenths with a long stylus.
Thanks to all for all the kind words and help.

Thanks Chet
 
coyotechet said:
You say you have a Interapid that reads tenths with a long stylus can you give me the model number of it. I just like indicators and want one at reads tenths with a long stylus.
Thanks to all for all the kind words and help.

Thanks Chet
Click to expand...

I have a few of the 1.5" dial Interapids and some of the #74.111958 (2.75" long) with the 0.080" carbide ball. You will find the larger ball is best when indicating an irregular surface like a rifled barrel bore.


.
 
Jerry, Will the .080" ball touch the bottom of the groove?
I have several B&S Bestest and they are good for what I can use them for.
 
Cmair
you are incorrect! Contrary to what most believe. Myself included at one time until i was taught otherwise from a man who designs and repairs indicators. A .0005 indicator at its vet best will not be any more accurate than .0005, ever!! When i decided i was going to learn all i could about indicators, and how they work, it changed my thoughts and practices. Do some reading, or better yet call and talk to one of the engineers at long island indicators. you will be glad you did.
One of the best indicators on the market, or should i say one of the more precise indicators on the market is the brown and sharp best test .00005 I have a long stylus on mine and with the long stylus its probably reading around .0002 to .0003 You also need to learn where the position of the stylus has to be to get the most out of them.
I guess the bottom line is that you are most likely fine with whatever indicator you are using, but if you want the absolute best possible it will take a little effort and education on the subject. Lee
 
so you are telling me there is magic involved.
indicators ONLY WORK CORRECTLY WHEN ON A HASH MARK ?
they do not work correctly as they move from hash mark to hash mark .

skeetlee said:
Cmair
you are incorrect! Contrary to what most believe. Myself included at one time until i was taught otherwise from a man who designs and repairs indicators. A .0005 indicator at its vet best will not be any more accurate than .0005, ever!! When i decided i was going to learn all i could about indicators, and how they work, it changed my thoughts and practices. Do some reading, or better yet call and talk to one of the engineers at long island indicators. you will be glad you did.
One of the best indicators on the market, or should i say one of the more precise indicators on the market is the brown and sharp best test .00005 I have a long stylus on mine and with the long stylus its probably reading around .0002 to .0003 You also need to learn where the position of the stylus has to be to get the most out of them.
I guess the bottom line is that you are most likely fine with whatever indicator you are using, but if you want the absolute best possible it will take a little effort and education on the subject. Lee
Click to expand...
 
Butch Lambert said:
Jerry, Will the .080" ball touch the bottom of the groove?
I have several B&S Bestest and they are good for what I can use them for.
Click to expand...

On 6mm and larger and up to 6 groove, yes. On an 8 groove 6mm or 6 groove 22 probably not.
And it's according to the groove ratio and configuration.

.
 
which long stylus do you have the double aprox 1" or the 1 7/16" ??
for the record the .00005 has an accuracy of .0001.
when you double the contact length, the reading goes up.
.0001 becomes .0002 and with the 1 7/16 to aprox .0003.
since the indicator is not calibrated for these, how do you know where you
are ?
skeetlee said:
Cmair
you are incorrect! Contrary to what most believe. Myself included at one time until i was taught otherwise from a man who designs and repairs indicators. A .0005 indicator at its vet best will not be any more accurate than .0005, ever!! When i decided i was going to learn all i could about indicators, and how they work, it changed my thoughts and practices. Do some reading, or better yet call and talk to one of the engineers at long island indicators. you will be glad you did.
One of the best indicators on the market, or should i say one of the more precise indicators on the market is the brown and sharp best test .00005 I have a long stylus on mine and with the long stylus its probably reading around .0002 to .0003 You also need to learn where the position of the stylus has to be to get the most out of them.
I guess the bottom line is that you are most likely fine with whatever indicator you are using, but if you want the absolute best possible it will take a little effort and education on the subject. Lee
Click to expand...
 
CMaier said:
so you are telling me there is magic involved.
indicators ONLY WORK CORRECTLY WHEN ON A HASH MARK ?
they do not work correctly as they move from hash mark to hash mark .
Click to expand...

No magic, it's just how they work. The "transmission" is designed around the marked increments (the hash marks). The best analogy I can think of is the second hand on a wall clock. You can see it move from second to second, but the middle of that space between one second and the next is not 0.5 seconds. It's simply calibrated to start moving soon enough to 'arrive' at the next second, or hash mark, at the appropriate time.
 
Just because analog clocks and indicators both have dials does not mean that what is true of one, is true of the other. If you think about how the second hand is powered, what sort of input powers the gear train, and add to that the consideration that indicator dials are movable, so that they can be zeroed you might want to reconsider what you wrote. Indicators measure distance, and clocks measure time. The requirements for these are different, as are the imputs to gear trains.
 
The real problem is something called "hysteresis" not calibration. Think of trying to take readings with a fishing rod......the longer a thing is, the more it flexes. And the more moving parts and interacting surfaces, the more built-in error.

This is specifically why indicators like the one Jackie posted exist, they're "long reach" but using shorter parts. You put all the levers into the housing, hang a short, stiff pickup lever off the end and then build a rigid housing to extend into the bore of the part in the hope that this rigid housing will stay firm. The downside of the long reach is that, even with shorter levers you've still got to transmit over double the distance, mechanically, using a transfer rod or bar.

Anyone who's ever messed with the trigger on an XP-100 has experienced this....in the pistol or bullpup configuration the finger or "pickup lever" of the trigger gets moved far-far-away from the actual trigger mechanism. Trying to make a crisp, light trigger pull is very hard and it's never as good as one where the pickup bar (trigger) hangs right off the mechanism.
 
"hysteresis" only show when the indicator changes direction.

Dial indicator designs often have sprung gearing to limit the effects of the required clearance of gear teeth to operate.

Inventions have a very long history of using gears and screw threads to allow for finer and finer measurements.

Just about everyone has seen the 'play' in machine tool feeds.

While not commonly seen there are laser interferometer systems than allow for movement to be controlled by fractions of a wavelength of light.

And then we use shorter and shorter wavelengths to improve the performance.

I have worked on ultra fine positioning systems that use voltage applied to quart crystals to move things in tenths of a wavelength of UV light.
 
Boyd Allen said:
Just because analog clocks and indicators both have dials does not mean that what is true of one, is true of the other. If you think about how the second hand is powered, what sort of input powers the gear train, and add to that the consideration that indicator dials are movable, so that they can be zeroed you might want to reconsider what you wrote. Indicators measure distance, and clocks measure time. The requirements for these are different, as are the imputs to gear trains.
Click to expand...

I didn't say they worked the same way, I said it was the best analogy I could think of (that is, relating something that is clearly not understood (why that middle ground isn't really usable) to something that is (wall clocks). I stand by what I said. The dial _is_ movable, but you're only going to move it to a point at which the needle sits at rest.

GsT
 
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