Super Shoot and small groups

I am a nobody

When it comes to debating anything BR related. I know what I have learned in my short time at this game.

What I do know is I LOVE THIS GAME.

What I do know is financially I CANNOT AFFORD the cost of a March.

What I do know is that possibly because of that I will NEVER be a WINNER.

What I do know is a Leupy is LIFETIME Warranty to whoever owns it (transferable)

What I do know is I can have my Leupy sent for work and returned in UNDER 2 weeks if I ever needed to.

What I do know is that March is the ONLY optic that openly says there scope WILL NOT SHIFT POA. Oh from what I gather there warranty is only for 5 years and NON transferable. If it needs work it needs to go back across the pond.

What I do know is I have a Leupold/Bukys 45x, and it is the ONLY optics I trust. I would love to have another.

Anyway, yes the March may be perfect but to some of us it is like debating Chevy over Ford. In Canada what do you see more of when it comes to rusted out pickups................. FORD by far.

Maybe the lottery will kick and I will own a MARCH one day. Till then, I guess I am meant to feel like a peasant.

JMO
 
Looks like you've been on wiki. The engine may share a socalled w style motor, but it is only built by VW and that is the only thing it has in common with a VW. It is kinda like saying my wife's 5.0 Genesis is the same as a flathead V8. You might research engine design a little more than is written in wiki.
I am an Okie and proud of it. I did have to swim the Red River, so I guess I am a wetback.
This thread is about things pertaining to the Super Shoot and Small groups and not a VW.
 
Send Me One

Jim with all of this being said I had my wife talk to Hobie at the Super Shoot about the 36x-55x-52 with a 3/32 dot and if the deal still stands I will take one.

I have 2 March Scope's now and I will welcome the 3rd with open arms.

Email me at rains310@gmail and let me know.

Thanks,
Russell Rains
 
OK, I'm a nobody but I'm OFFENDED with phrases like "Jim you're a good salesman" and "Ford VS Chevy"....... Jim's NOT a "good salesman". Jim's convinced in his heart that March is BETTER.

Because it IS better.

Anyone who considers March VS Leupold (or "leupy"..... like "the leupy I screwed on my pet Remmy"...... ) to be a "Ford VS Chevy argument" simply doesn't know what March is....I've talked with several of the guys directly responsible for the March. The guys who flew over to Deon and met the scope nerds, the guys who said "can you?" and "how much" and "GET 'ER DONE!"

So I say again, this is NOT "Ford VS Chevy" as anyone with real gearhead knowledge would readily acknowledge.


"Ford VS Atom" maybe......


And from one businessman (successful) to another, the idea that Jim's gonna' get rich selling Marches is laughable, silly in it's face!

And, let me add, the dedication of folks like Lou and Eric, AND JIM (all the Kelbly's) to a money pit like BR is humbling to say the least. So Jim, here's at least ONE enormous THANK YOU!!!

I say "P!$$ ON THE HATERS!"

(because I CAN :) )

LOL

al
 
I too admire the commitment that it took to bring March scopes into being. Every one who owns one owes Lou a big thank you, since he put up the money needed to get Dion to make the first batch. Having said that, let me point out one encouraging fact from back in the day when he came up with a way to add adjustment locking screws to the Leupold competition scopes, that Don Nielson built and installed. During that time, Lou bought eight 45X Leupolds and tested them for point of impact shift caused by firing the rifle that they were mounted on. To do the test, he used a Hood scope checker, and a reference scope (36x Leupold)that was modified by Cecil Tucker, and which had a solid rod in place of the usual coil spring. The result of the testing was that half of the scopes showed point of impact shift, that did not always show up at first, but in some cases after a number of shots. The point of this story is that while half of the scopes had the problem, a .020 to .060 shift, HALF DID NOT. So for those who cannot afford a March, based on that sample, we have a 50-50 chance of getting a scope that stays put. There is no doubt that some scopes move, but evidently not all. Related to this are reports that I have heard that in many cases those that used the Hood checkers to check scopes found that their scopes were NOT moving. My conclusion is that if you have a problem, you should do something about, and if you do not.....
 
James A. Kelbly said:
I know it is hard to find out so I will just tell you, 3 of the 4 small groups at the Super Shoot were shot using March Scopes. Allen Arnette's very pretty 200 yard group of .098 was a March. Dean Ekstrom's .062 which tied Super Shoot record at 100 yards in 13.5 class was a March and Bart Sauter's 13.5lb 200 yard .161 group was also a March. Only Renard Alexander's .064 at 100 yards was a non March Leupold. This to me proves again the quality of the March scopes and less point of aim shift between shots. We have noticed around the world many small groups today are shot with March Scopes. Remember when building a custom rifle why not use a custom scope instead of those high production scopes many of the top shooters have abandoned. Shoot the best shoot a March!

Jim
Click to expand...

Dont want to get into March vs Leupold, Chevy vs Ford etc. they all make a good product that have there place.

The problem with this post is arrogance........"Shoot the best shoot a March!" from the only U.S. supplier.

Let someone else pat you on the back, patting yourself on the back is awkward for everybody.
 
Arrogant?

I see no arrogance in the practice of a manufacturer or distributor recommending the use of a specific scope for use in Benchrest Competition. The March scope was purposely designed and built to address a recurring problem. I’ve owned five since they were introduced for sale. Never had issues with POA shifts. In this society, Freedom of choice is the rule rather than the exception. “You buys what you like”

1zyvmnm.jpg
:D




Glenn
 
UncleB said:
Dont want to get into March vs Leupold, Chevy vs Ford etc. they all make a good product that have there place.

The problem with this post is arrogance........"Shoot the best shoot a March!" from the only U.S. supplier.

Let someone else pat you on the back, patting yourself on the back is awkward for everybody.
Click to expand...


"Arrogance?"

"ARROGANCE???"

And here we find that, as per usual this is really a POLITICAL argument!

Maybe in my heart of hearts the reason I'm siding w/Jim is because I KNOW he didn't vote for the guy :)

And because I KNOW that better is BETTER...... and that "they all make a good product and have their place" is an oversimplification.

"arrogance"

HA!

al
 
UncleB said:
Dont want to get into March vs Leupold, Chevy vs Ford etc. they all make a good product that have there place.

The problem with this post is arrogance........"Shoot the best shoot a March!" from the only U.S. supplier.

Let someone else pat you on the back, patting yourself on the back is awkward for everybody.
Click to expand...

Agreed. What I found odd about the whole thing was that this thread was initially brought up to bring to our attention that March's were responsible for 3 of the 4 small group awards in the 2014 SS under the banner to "shoot the best, shoot a March". Yet, Leupolds took the majority of the wood, including the most important trophy there, and most of the agg and grand agg trophies. These are the facts, and arguing with facts only makes one look dumb. Most competitors I know (myself included) would rather have an agg or grand agg trophy any day over a small group trophy.

To proclaim that March's are the best....well, the stats don't support that claim yet. I can see where that may appear arrogant for sure. But I think "unwise" would be a better adjective. I personally think it was unwise denigrating 80% of the people who just patronized your event because they shoot something other than a March. Especially when those same folks won the majority of the wood at that event!

Bottom line:
Benchrest is a sport of finding out what works best for you. If that includes a March...great. If it includes a Leupold...great.
If Leupolds were junk, they would not be at the top of the winners list, and they wouldn't be in use by so many folks. Which begs the question, if I'm winning wood with my Leupold, why should I switch to a March?
 
Last edited:
CYanchycki said:
When it comes to debating anything BR related. I know what I have learned in my short time at this game.

What I do know is I LOVE THIS GAME.

What I do know is financially I CANNOT AFFORD the cost of a March.

What I do know is that possibly because of that I will NEVER be a WINNER.

What I do know is a Leupy is LIFETIME Warranty to whoever owns it (transferable)

What I do know is I can have my Leupy sent for work and returned in UNDER 2 weeks if I ever needed to.

What I do know is that March is the ONLY optic that openly says there scope WILL NOT SHIFT POA. Oh from what I gather there warranty is only for 5 years and NON transferable. If it needs work it needs to go back across the pond.

What I do know is I have a Leupold/Bukys 45x, and it is the ONLY optics I trust. I would love to have another.

Anyway, yes the March may be perfect but to some of us it is like debating Chevy over Ford. In Canada what do you see more of when it comes to rusted out pickups................. FORD by far.

Maybe the lottery will kick and I will own a MARCH one day. Till then, I guess I am meant to feel like a peasant.

JMO
Click to expand...


No Calvin, you're not a nobody! That title is reserved for somebody who self proclaimed it a bit after you did.;) You compete (I know 'cause I've seen you at the matches) and therefore, you are not a nobody in my book.:)

And you make some mighty good points!

I will add a few more to the list:

I've seen March's go back for problems. And it wasn't pretty. And it wasn't quick. And it wasn't free.
There are even folks on this forum who've had March's go bad, and they were ridiculed like sub-humans for even suggesting that their scope may be having issues.:(

If you buy a Leupold and it is a proven a lemon, you can send it to Buky's or Brackney and you'll have lemonade for equal or less than a March.

If it has tires, tits, nuts, or bolts.....it can go bad at some point, and without warning.

Mass production is unavoidable. Our barrels are mass produced (as is the steel they're made of), our brass is mass produced, our powder is mass produced, our jackets are mass produced, our lead is mass produced, heck, even parts of our custom actions are mass produced! The point is, Benchrest is a game of troubleshooting and eliminating problems. We must examine every part of the process that puts bullets through the paper. Once you've found a combination of things that works, does it matter that most of the things that got you there are mass produced? I say no. The only thing that matters is that it's working for you!

If Leupy's were as bad as some say, then statistically, anyone using any other brand of scope would always beat them. We'd never see a Leupy above a March on any equipment list. But in fact, the stats speak for themselves....Leupy's dominated the SS.

I've talked with Tony about his scopes, and about scope shift problems, and what he told me personally trumps anything someone who is selling something could ever say.

Anyone can call us peasants........but as long as we're peasants standing there at the awards ceremony with a stack of wood in our hands, why wouldn't we continue using what works for us?! Some folks might say, "yeah but you could have won by a larger margin if you'd been using a March". Well maybe, but that's pretty hard to prove!

Good shooting!
 
Last edited:
Smart axx

Jim say intelligent ass,,, you're much to smart to say smart ass. Us's still luvs you iff'n yoo iz dat way.(smart ass) I would love to have a March, but by the time I could afford one, the name would be August or September Scope.
James A. Kelbly said:
I am sorry but could not resist, I noticed this on your forum name listing

"wishIwasabettergrouper" Maybe that March scope would help. Sorry again just the smart ass in me as many of you know me as.


Jim
Click to expand...
 
Okay, my last attempt at clarity. I shot with a March scope and won the LV 100 yard leg and the LV Grand.
In this instance I beat Tony in both the 100 and 200 LV yard aggs
He was using a Leupold on his LV rifle.
In the heavy varmint 100 and 200 he beat handily! However, I believe that he was using a NightForce, unless he changed it recently.
This is not to say that he can't beat me using the bottom of a coke bottle for a scope.
The important thing is that I do not have to check my scopes, send them to the factory for yearly checks or worry about it. Makes my choice EASY: MARCH !
 
Never had a March scope

Never had that much cash on hand or I would have one or two!

I did figure out how to keep the postage nearly zero on my Leupolds. When I thought one was going bad, I put it on my rail gun. That seemed to fix it every time. Actually, my rail has fixed countless scopes now that I think about it......maybe I ought to start fixing scopes and buy a March with the money.
 
Wilbur said:
Never had that much cash on hand or I would have one or two!

I did figure out how to keep the postage nearly zero on my Leupolds. When I thought one was going bad, I put it on my rail gun. That seemed to fix it every time. Actually, my rail has fixed countless scopes now that I think about it......maybe I ought to start fixing scopes and buy a March with the money.
Click to expand...

You do have a mighty fine shooting rail gun! I too fixed a couple of old Leupolds with my rail gun and even fixed a variety of other scopes by changing barrels or bullets.:)
On the more serious side the lower recoil of a rail gun does not bring out the true crap a bad scope is capable of.
So are you going to any matches this year? Sure would like to see you . Your sense of humor is still in form.:rolleyes:
 
Dusty Stevens said:
Wilbur- you can fix most by putting them on a heavy too. Ive never fixed one by putting it on a light gun tho.
Click to expand...

As it turns out, I just kept swapping scopes back and forth from my rail to my bag gun....and it seemed to work. Once, I sent a scope to Leupold and I think they just swished it around in some cleaner and sent it back with a canned letter. Pretty sure I didn't use that one until I forgot which one it was.
 
Larry

I planned all year to go to this year's Super Shoot....and you see how that went...didn't go. I plan all sorts of things! In fact, I'm planning to go to the next Super Shoot right now.

Truth is, I'm all to hell and can't walk very far. Having pushed a few wheelchairs over time, I'm sure that's not a good reason but it gets to be a real problem sometimes. Plus, I lost that will to win and just spent my time loading and shooting...not really caring what happened. We all know how that works out!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top