Strange Things Going On at The Nationals in Arizona

P

Pardini

Guest
The Phoenix Club has added their "Own Rules" to the USA Open Class Rules.

They have banned guns with fore ends in excess of 3 inches, which are legal per the USA Open Class Rules.

Steve George is there and he won't defend or insisit that the Rules of his Sanctioning Body be enforced? He has let the Local Club over rule him? How can this match be considered a National, if the Sanctioning Body has deferred to "Local Rules".

I wonder if Chips Open Gun has been declared illegal, since the stock is not flat or convex.
 
I Agree

Doug Miller took my open rifle, they banned it, to wide in the front. I was told they were going to use their own rules, but didn't believe it because on their website for the Nats they state following existing rules of governing bodies. All I know it would have been a shame to make the drive and not been able to compete with a rifle that is legal.

I also heard that their backers in the wind will move quite a bit. That's to bad that Steve didn't enforce because they state following their rules for the other 2 classes.

Hopefully Chip will be okay and able to compete.

Regards,
Joe
 
Doesn't surprise me at all

Steven is just being Steven: wishy-washy. He has never been know for his decision making or enforcement skills, and this is just dotting the "i" on why I got so fed up with dealing with him.

Even though I have to commend Steven for his efforts on trying to get things organized, too bad he won't defend his organization now it's center stage. This one match could have made the difference of how things moved forward by inspiring new shooters, or those who had to miss it, but wanted to be there. And he dropped the ball - big time!

And what about garrison. Here he agreed to host the Nationals, which to all meant that the Rulebook would be the deciding factor on what is or is not legal. Then just this week he posted about making sure your equipment met with the Rules, but now has changed the Book for an entire Class of guns unbeknownst to anyone before their arrival.

Good luck to all those who are there, and enjoy it the best you can.

I look forward to reading all the posts once this thing is over. And, if Steven is that spineless to not defend his own organization he had better quite, because he's no longer ahead, and is starting to spiral out of control. But, given his history I'm not surprised in the least!

Dave Shattuck
 
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Very poor form if true .....

A friend has travelled all the way from South Africa to compete ..... have not heard from him but just hope his rifles were declared "legal" ...... they certainly were when he attended the worlds .....
 
If it had been held @ Joe's place

I would be there but there ain't any reason for me to ever return to Arizona. I had planned a summer trip around going to California but had to re-assess.

I think the competitors should refuse to shoot if the Match Director won't honor the Sanctioning Body's Rules. At least shooters could show some unity.

Pete
 
I agree 100% Pete.

The trouble is: after spending the tons of money to be there, and going through all the hype and effort, I know even I would shoot under the circumstances and just live with what was happening, then never do it again.

Dave Shattuck
 
Well

When the schedule for the event came out you knew there was something wrong.

It was the most unfair shooting schedule I have ever seen for a Major Benchrest Event.

I could be wrong and overall the match may be fine.

Kevin Kunkle
 
Dave Shattuck said:
I agree 100% Pete.

The trouble is: after spending the tons of money to be there, and going through all the hype and effort, I know even I would shoot under the circumstances and just live with what was happening, then never do it again.

Dave Shattuck
Click to expand...

Doesn't bode very well for a beginning, does it Dave? I don't understand how a Club can have their own rules and participate within a sanctioning body, competing against others who go by the real rules. If I were the King of that outfit, I would banish them when this is over. Talk about arrogance!

Pete
 
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Wannebe said:
Very poor form if true .....

A friend has travelled all the way from South Africa to compete ..... have not heard from him but just hope his rifles were declared "legal" ...... they certainly were when he attended the worlds .....
Click to expand...

Albert,
All my rifles passed the rules check and I am having a super time. Not sure what this is all about but I am sure LV and HV is as normal. Two days of pure enjoyment. Very friendly and helpful people. The matches are starting on time and keeping to the schedule. Excellent target crew. Even the relays that you are shooting is printed on your ID tag.

No clue on any results till Sunday night which means I cannot be influenced by any outcome till well after the last match. I kind of like it that way.

Gert
 
Sighters said:
Albert,
All my rifles passed the rules check and I am having a super time. Not sure what this is all about but I am sure LV and HV is as normal. Two days of pure enjoyment. Very friendly and helpful people. The matches are starting on time and keeping to the schedule. Excellent target crew. Even the relays that you are shooting is printed on your ID tag.

No clue on any results till Sunday night which means I cannot be influenced by any outcome till well after the last match. I kind of like it that way.

Gert
Click to expand...


Hi Gert, very nice to meet you!

I am not sure what the hoopla is about, there where some things that could probably have been smoothed out, but the matches has run like clockwork as far as I can tell.
I read all the rules they posted from the Rimfire rulebook (WRABF & ERABBSF)
http://www.phoenixairgun.net/Phoeni...WRABF & ERABSF Rimfire RULEBOOK 2012-2013.pdf

Unless I am mistaken(possible), it states that openclass guns cannot be wider at any point on the stock than 3"

Anyway, we are all having a blast here during the Nationals. I am sorry if something has caused anyone any grief.


Tom
 
Sighters said:
Albert,
All my rifles passed the rules check and I am having a super time. Not sure what this is all about but I am sure LV and HV is as normal. Two days of pure enjoyment. Very friendly and helpful people. The matches are starting on time and keeping to the schedule. Excellent target crew. Even the relays that you are shooting is printed on your ID tag.

No clue on any results till Sunday night which means I cannot be influenced by any outcome till well after the last match. I kind of like it that way.

Gert
Click to expand...

I did not know you went over for this Gert, good on you and good luck.
 
Viking said:
Hi Gert, very nice to meet you!

I am not sure what the hoopla is about, there where some things that could probably have been smoothed out, but the matches has run like clockwork as far as I can tell.
I read all the rules they posted from the Rimfire rulebook (WRABF & ERABBSF)
http://www.phoenixairgun.net/Phoeni...WRABF & ERABSF Rimfire RULEBOOK 2012-2013.pdf

Unless I am mistaken(possible), it states that openclass guns cannot be wider at any point on the stock than 3"

Anyway, we are all having a blast here during the Nationals. I am sorry if something has caused anyone any grief.


Tom
Click to expand...

Yes, appendix G states the forearm may not exceed 3" and the portion of the buttstock that contacts the rear bag may not exceed .98".

So no one is adding their "own rules" it's just different than what some are familiar with.

This is my third benchrest match, and I had fun shooting the open 25 yard portion with my Daystate Air Ranger. I am lucky enough to live 30 miles from the match, and shoot previously at this range. It's always windy!
 
Joe,

I will only reply to you on this thread. It is simply another example of airing dirty laundry on a public forum.

There will 2 guns that were challenged for the 3 inch fore end width. One shooter simply made a cut and was approved. He appeared to have anticipated this outcome and had no problem with the solution.

With your gun, I discussed the situation with Garrett and his team. They wanted very specific requirements and reverted to the WRABF rule book when USARB rules might have been too "wishy-washy". It was my decision NOT to overrule the local match director on a single issue and undermine his authority when everything else was so spectacular. I will call you to fill you in on other details that have no business here.
 
azoutdoorsman said:
Yes, appendix G states the forearm may not exceed 3" and the portion of the buttstock that contacts the rear bag may not exceed .98".

So no one is adding their "own rules" it's just different than what some are familiar with.

This is my third benchrest match, and I had fun shooting the open 25 yard portion with my Daystate Air Ranger. I am lucky enough to live 30 miles from the match, and shoot previously at this range. It's always windy!
Click to expand...

Those are World/European Rules. There are no such restrictions in the US Open Class Rules. So, yes someone did add Rules to the US Open Class and yes they are different than what you are familiar with.

Here are the US Open Rules so you can become familiar with them. Six rules, There are not any appendix's.

USA Open Class

.177, .20 and .22 calibers are allowed.
Up to a maximum of 35 FPE.
Up to a maximum of 25 pounds.
International scoring rules will apply.
Target distance will be 25 meters or 50 yards, at the discretion of the match director.
One piece rests are allowed.
 
Pardini,

There are problems with the current rule selections that must be addressed by USARB and match directors.

I have put together suggestions and will post them on a separate thread this weekend for discussion.

Regards,
Joe
 
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