Static problems

L

londonhunter

Guest
Just wondering if it is only me

I have notice recently that I have a lot of static surrounding my reloading table

God know where the source is and is getting worse as the weather changes

Anybody experiencing similar ?

Especially with smaller caliber powder is adhering to the case mouth and not dropping through cleanly

I have tried plastic sheets and an earthing cable to a radiator

care to share your experience ?

Also powder sticking to the plastic side wall of my chargemaster as well is worse recently

I wonder if my wife is bugging me ............HAHA
 
Wow, grounding to the rad should help a lot...... I keep cables on the bench and just touching them to the offending area makes the powder drop.

Have you tried the dryer sheets? Like Bounce etc?

al
 
Yes what you are saying helps with powder sticking to the side of plastic funnels

Problem is only relevant with small calibers like 20 tactical

Recently powder seem to stick to the inside neck of the case and not dropping through

of course tapping it will eventually solve the problem but it is just another USELESS step
 
You wouldn't have any case lube residue inside the case mouth would you? Just asking. - nhk
 
I am guessing it is worse now in the colder weather like when you get "shocked" more touching doorknobs in the winter.
 
Make a solution of a few drops of Dish soap and 1/2 cup of water.

Wash the offending Plastic part / parts and let dry without rinsing,no more static.

Electronic Geeks use Grounded Antistatic mats,wrist straps and Antistatic fluid to keep static at bay.


Regards & good shooting,

Steve
 
Trying to eliminate your static issues by "grounding" , is a waste of time, and could, potentially be dangerous. There many industrial devices to rid manufacturing processes of static, all which are expensive and are something I would not suggest be used around powder. Some work similar to a bug zapper. There are some new products available that are for point of use or I should say for a work station, where assembly of elect component's takes place, but, again, they are pricey.

Get yourself a humidifier.
 
Desk-top Grounding mats:

There are grounded mats available that are used under computer keyboards to eliminate their static.They are made from black rubber and have a grounding cord on them. I use to have a link but bet they are easily found with GOOGLE.
 
Something to consider, do you ground a vehicle to a electrical service to protect from static while refueling or do you bond your vehicle to the refueling device? When you work on a computer you need to keep your body in contact with the computer housing, to prevent static damage to components.

Add plastic jugs and bottles to the mix and now you have to remove the source of the static as you have no means to discharge it.
 
TRA said:
Something to consider, do you ground a vehicle to a electrical service to protect from static while refueling or do you bond your vehicle to the refueling device? QUOTE]

??

Do you actually have any practical experience?

YES, tanker rigs are grounded for fueling/loading..... and NO you don't have to "keep contact with your computer housing." (WHO does this???) There are discharge devices of all sorts including wrist straps and touchpads but they're for YOU..... to keep YOU grounded. "Touching your computer housing" isn't an effective way to do this.


Ohhhh, and PRACTICALLY ...............(this means in the real world).................. you can watch the powder fall from the plastic surfaces when you properly ground your unit. HOW is this "not working?"

And furthermore, the units you refer to as "bug zapper units" are readily available from Radio Shack, cheap. And, no, thay're not "dangerous" in any way. They click, not zzzap, but whatever...they're not powered.

Soooo, unless you can explain how grounding doesn't work, please don't speculate. Static control around powder is a real issue and does have dangerous implications. These dangers have nothing to do with sparks igniting the powder. I do know (real, not speculative) of instances of static igniting BP and flash on the table but that's during open folding applications and of course the danger doesn't pertain to smokeless anyway.

al
Click to expand...
 
OK, al maybe you should try to understand the difference from an "electrical" ground and a bonding between that tanker and the apparatus that is refueling. In maintenance shops they usually have a tank with a pump to empty a vehicles fuel tank, it is bonded or to the layman "grounded" to the vehicle, but never to a buildings electrical service. When you fill a plastic fuel jug you set it on the ground, you would never "Ground" it to an electrical service.

Telling someone they should use their house or garage "Electrical" ground is foolish, you have no idea what the condition or even what type of power is in use when posting on the WWW.

This may shock you, but, A ground of an electrical service is not for personal protection. Many use the term " Ground" improperly, especially those that specialize in residential electricity. Any protection to a person is secondary to it's purpose. I've been shocked by many "Grounded" power tools, thankfully most are insulated now.

I would be concerned if I were to touch my electrical ground to a powder measure and have the powder fall from the plastic bottle.

AND I said "INDUSTRIAL" static control, certain ones will knock you on your ass

IF you claim to have a one wire cure for static, I'm sure the plastic industry will compensate you beyond your wildest dreams, I happen to know better.
 
Perhaps time to ask the question of Wittgenstein. He was the guy who said, essentially, if you want to communicate, you gotta look at the ordinary usage of words. A lot of arguments come about because people assume they both mean the same thing with a word, but as you poke, you find they don't.

In a special disciplines -- like science -- words can take on a technical, limited meaning. That's just fine, as long as everybody's playing with the same deck.

The term "grounded" has an everyday usage, which varies some from user to user. It has another, more precise, more limited meaning in engineering.

What's really at stake is the difference in potential between two -- or multiple -- things. Yes, you can construct a circuit where there is potential in the "ground." You can also construct a circuit where there is none.

I imagine everyone would agree that if you took a 3-foot copper rod and drove it into the ground (earth), then ran a wire from the body of whatever devices were involved directly to that rod -- with good connections -- you could say they are properly grounded. Whether or not the "ground" in your house has ground loops is another question.

So then the question becomes, what if everything in the loading room had a wire running directly from the body to one point that is suppose to be a "ground" in your house or shop. I believe that's fine, even if there could be a potential difference between two so-called "ground" connections in the house -- AKA ground loops.

I know from small signal work that getting rid of ground loops in an existing setup can be a major PITA. But we're talking about very low signal levels. Still, if it bothers your sleep, pound that copper rod into the ground and use that only for your loading room.
 
So, the wire to the Rad Al spoke of - - -

Charles E said:
Perhaps time to ask the question of Wittgenstein. He was the guy who said, essentially, if you want to communicate, you gotta look at the ordinary usage of words. A lot of arguments come about because people assume they both mean the same thing with a word, but as you poke, you find they don't.

In a special disciplines -- like science -- words can take on a technical, limited meaning. That's just fine, as long as everybody's playing with the same deck.

The term "grounded" has an everyday usage, which varies some from user to user. It has another, more precise, more limited meaning in engineering.

What's really at stake is the difference in potential between two -- or multiple -- things. Yes, you can construct a circuit where there is potential in the "ground." You can also construct a circuit where there is none.

I imagine everyone would agree that if you took a 3-foot copper rod and drove it into the ground (earth), then ran a wire from the body of whatever devices were involved directly to that rod -- with good connections -- you could say they are properly grounded. Whether or not the "ground" in your house has ground loops is another question.

So then the question becomes, what if everything in the loading room had a wire running directly from the body to one point that is suppose to be a "ground" in your house or shop. I believe that's fine, even if there could be a potential difference between two so-called "ground" connections in the house -- AKA ground loops.

I know from small signal work that getting rid of ground loops in an existing setup can be a major PITA. But we're talking about very low signal levels. Still, if it bothers your sleep, pound that copper rod into the ground and use that only for your loading room.
Click to expand...

The pipes and heating system in his house may provide enough potential to suck up the static as could other sources if one hooked to them?
 
Maybe this helps? Voltage, static or otherwise, is measurement of charge between two things. It is always relative. Far as I know, there is no "absolute zero" of voltage. But that's awkward, so to be practical, we say the Earth (AKA ground) is zero.

Usually the plumbing is grounded -- same potential as the earth. If you want to be absolutely sure, use what I've always called a ground buss. One point, itself connected to "ground," that everything else is directly connected to (not in series).

This is really simple guys, just hard to say. If this doesn't explain it, it'll take someone else.
 
Resistance-to-ground

Sorry but; I do not know anyone that loads with one and I was wondering if the concerns were - static charge develop, static discharges or is it purely load development?


Ken
 
In Quebec

Unfortunately it is cold and damp but, no snow as of yet. I haven’t shot since St. J in October and can feel cabin fever setting in. I’ve been trying to talk myself into making the driving down to Camillus or Canastota but so far I am not there yet. Come on Dunham’s Bay……..

This ES keeps coming up every now and again and I can’t help but think that there is something to it.


Ken
 
K Hope said:
Unfortunately it is cold and damp but, no snow as of yet. I haven’t shot since St. J in October and can feel cabin fever setting in. I’ve been trying to talk myself into making the driving down to Camillus or Canastota but so far I am not there yet. Come on Dunham’s Bay……..

This ES keeps coming up every now and again and I can’t help but think that there is something to it.


Ken
Click to expand...



I wish you a good Winter and Happy Holidays Ken. I am bound for the South Land on or about the 29th for 4 months. Shoulda gone sooner this year. Tis cold here allready.

Pete
 
Pete

Thanks and the same to you.

Enjoy…………. Don’t forget to think about all your friends up north. This winter when I get my first static shock I’ll be thinking of you in that hot humid south. :)

Ken
 
TRA said:
OK, al maybe you should try to understand the difference from an "electrical" ground and a bonding between that tanker and the apparatus that is refueling. In maintenance shops they usually have a tank with a pump to empty a vehicles fuel tank, it is bonded or to the layman "grounded" to the vehicle, but never to a buildings electrical service. When you fill a plastic fuel jug you set it on the ground, you would never "Ground" it to an electrical service.

You missed a step..... not only are the two vehicles bonded together to ensure that no "potential" builds in either unit, THEY'RE ALSO GROUNDED. That is, a solid connection to the earth (ground) to drain any potential from the system. I don't recall saying anything about "hooking to the building's electrical system?"


Telling someone they should use their house or garage "Electrical" ground is foolish, you have no idea what the condition or even what type of power is in use when posting on the WWW.

HUHHH??

Where did this come from? I verified that hooking to the rad "should make a big difference" and used the term "properly grounded" in the next post just in case this didn't work... Nowhere did I suggest "hooking to the building's "Electrical" ground." (not that it's a bad idea)

This may shock you, but, A ground of an electrical service is not for personal protection. Many use the term " Ground" improperly, especially those that specialize in residential electricity. Any protection to a person is secondary to it's purpose. I've been shocked by many "Grounded" power tools, thankfully most are insulated now.

A'gain, who suggested anything about "personal protection???" One should ground oneself against building electrical potential ("static") when rooting about inside delicate electronic instrumentation so as not to pollute readings which is where the wrist straps ref'd come into play.... but so what? In response to your assertion that the house ground "is to protect people"...... Are you perhaps getting mixed up with "GFI" or "GFCI" circuits? These interruptors (the term is "circuit breaker") ARE for personal protection but their function is to SEVER the flow to the "ground..." The "third wire" or "grounding circuit" or "ground prong" on an American AC system isn't there to keep you from being shocked.

I really have no idea where you're going with this.


I would be concerned if I were to touch my electrical ground to a powder measure and have the powder fall from the plastic bottle.

I guess I don't know how to answer your concerns here. Some folks are concerned with global warming, some are scared of heights..... but if you run a liddle wire from your powder thrower to the liddle screw in the center of a switchplate it'll make your powder drop nicely. And it's not "dangerous."


AND I said "INDUSTRIAL" static control, certain ones will knock you on your ass

again, not sure where you're going wi' dis.....


IF you claim to have a one wire cure for static, I'm sure the plastic industry will compensate you beyond your wildest dreams, I happen to know better.


" a one wire cure for static" ........... well OK, Yup, I have a one wire cure for static. I don't hope to get rich off it, but YUP, I've got it! Just one teeensy-weeensy wire running from my Harrell powder thrower to the ground is a wondrous thing.... not MAGIC, just wondrous. Keeps me safe.
Click to expand...


So, I'll try to clarify my position.


"Static"....... as in "static electricity," also called "electrical potential," is just electricity with no where to go.

The jug of fuel mentioned is "potential" or "static" fuel. It's just setting there. By the same token a jug of water is "static water." A crick gurgling down a slope is running water..... BOTH are just water. Electricity just IS, like water.... "static" electricity is simply a jug of electrical potential, just setting there. "Static electricity" is no different than electrical current, give it a drain hole and it becomes "running electricity" and generates a "current" just like water.

Now, to be perfectly clear, static buildup in a powder measure creates a peripheral problem. The "static" isn't the problem. Nor is the discharge of this "static." The PROBLEM is that it gums up the works, leads to inconsistent throws of powder. Sometimes dangerously inconsistent. The answer is simply to drain off the charge by giving it a place to run to. YES, it's that simple in the case ref'd by the OP.


The source is friction...... friction generates electricity which is stored in insulated objects like people and powder measures. "Grounding" or "earthing" is like poking a hole in a jug of water, like opening a petcock.... The powder measure becomes a little electrical generator and the electricity has nowhere to go. The person running the powder measure generally adds even more energy to the system so you "ground" it.

YUP, you just give it a little wire to the nearest conductor which is hooked to the earth. A radiator is generally a very capable "ground." There are many others.

Technically Pete, what the radiator provides is a DRAIN down which the electrical charge can pour so that it doesn't build potential. Note here that "potential" is perhaps the word that's getting us all into trouble. A large vat or open tub on your house roof has the "potential" to cave your roof in when it's raining.... the water (static, not moving) that collects in the tub gets heavier and heavier (potential) until it could "potentially" cave your roof in...... so you put in a drain, let the water trickle out (current) and it can't "build potential."

clear as mud???

Only if you've got some DIRT in the tub......

but that brings us into 'dirty' electricity and ..... well, I'll just STOP there. It's an imperfect analogy anyways.

LOL

BTW londonhunter, IMO nhkeuhl is onto something....... are we SURE there's nothing in the casenecks? Are you using an expander ball? If the necks are clean you could try a wrist strap, just touch an earthed wire to the case and if the powder drops you've found your chokepoint.

al
 
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