Sometimes it is just plain old Ignorance!!

Here is a new one - fresh from the range...

A Sako 7 mm Rem Mag... first he fired a .308 Winchester in it...

Then after getting the .308 brass out chambered and fired a 7mm Rem Mag at which point he created the results in this picture. The "bolt guide" is bent as well. Shooter uninjured.

I have not been able to inspect it yet, I just received the story and the picture by email and phone. I'll have it next month.

Sako%20damaged.jpg
 
If ignorance is bliss, I can only assume that there are some very happy people in this world.
 
kansasvet

We said exactly the very same thing on Westburne Drilling rig 34 many years ago.

Along with:
"Common sense should be called uncommon sense because less than 10% of the population has it !"

Dennis

This one should be quite interesting .
I wonder just what you have to do to a Sako action and this happens.

Glenn:D
 
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Wow, after reading this I'm wondering if I really want to try my hand at reloading after all!? :eek:

Cheers,

Mark
 
Mark;
In this case reloading was not the issue. The issue appears to be a "gun owher" that knew very little about the gun he owned. Basic rule: If you don't know something to be safe, don't do it. We had a local rifle shooter that didn't see why there should be a difference between Winchester 760 and Winchester 296. His reply after I explained the difference was:"That's B.S. They're both Winchester". I am usually never amazed at how little actual knowledge people are willing to try to get by with.

Mike Swartz
 
Wow, after reading this I'm wondering if I really want to try my hand at reloading after all!? :eek:

Cheers,

Mark

Mark,

Gotta agree totally with Mike. The people who have trouble with handloading are people who don't want to learn and pay attention. Can a person do something that can hurt himself and his gun, you bet! On the other hand a lot of us have been enjoying handloading for several decades without harm to ourselves or our guns except for shot out barrels and deafness.... :eek: :D

Larry
 
Wow, after reading this I'm wondering if I really want to try my hand at reloading after all!? :eek:

Cheers,

Mark

The best way is to find an experienced handloader that has a good reputation for safety and sensible ideas to get you started with good safe loading techniques .
If you are shown good habits from the start you will have no dangerous problems in the future .
Reloading is not a spectator sport. So don't do it with a bunch of mates all talking and messing about or family members watching on and asking questions.
While you are learning the only person looking over your shoulder should be your mentor.
 
Mentoring as payback

J. Valentine

In a perfect world a safe experienced and patient mentor in a one on one enviroment would be best. Next best would be the same instructor in a small class.

To all:

Have you volunteered to be a mentor? Does your club put on classes in firearms safety, basic reloading, advanced reloading, load development, benchrest shooting or even basic target shooting?

This is the time of year that we all rehash the horror stories. Like some of you, I've been a range safety officer at our club during the "sight-in" days for the deer hunters (this year 52 days and 2900 of them). I have enough horror stories to do a book. Instead I and the other volunteers do boresighting, minor repairs, assist when asked and patch a lot of "scope-eye" cuts.

In the winter we also put on basic and advanced reloading classes for small groups and some individual mentoring. In the spring and summer I and a few others do individual mentoring in firearms safety, target/bench techniques and other topics requested.

My mentors gave a lot to me in my 57 years of shooting enjoyment - I'm just trying to pass on what I've learned to the next generations of shooters.
 
J. Valentine

In a perfect world a safe experienced and patient mentor in a one on one enviroment would be best. Next best would be the same instructor in a small class.

To all:

Have you volunteered to be a mentor? Does your club put on classes in firearms safety, basic reloading, advanced reloading, load development, benchrest shooting or even basic target shooting?

This is the time of year that we all rehash the horror stories. Like some of you, I've been a range safety officer at our club during the "sight-in" days for the deer hunters (this year 52 days and 2900 of them). I have enough horror stories to do a book. Instead I and the other volunteers do boresighting, minor repairs, assist when asked and patch a lot of "scope-eye" cuts.

In the winter we also put on basic and advanced reloading classes for small groups and some individual mentoring. In the spring and summer I and a few others do individual mentoring in firearms safety, target/bench techniques and other topics requested.

My mentors gave a lot to me in my 57 years of shooting enjoyment - I'm just trying to pass on what I've learned to the next generations of shooters.

I agree completely , that a small class situation with a good teacher would be excellent also.
I spend 20 % of my range time helping , advising , cocking bolts , uncocking bolts, unjambing rifles , advising reloaders , stopping unsafe gun handling .
However my range treats me like sh*t and they would rather make some pimply faced kid a range officer , because he is some range officers son , than me.
One time I had to walk half the length of the range past 20 odd shooters and stop the range captain from opening the range .
He was rude and tried to push me away . Eventually I said dont open the range there is a guy still out on the range at 200.
Only a fraction of a second before he said commence fire.
He nearly sh*t his pants when he turned around and saw a guy still at 200.
I never even got a thankyou.
One time a range officer told me that it was not my job to be advising other shooters and fixing guns. That only the range officers are allowed to do that.
So I said fine ! Every time someone asks me for help I will refer them to you and point out that it is your job to help them even if you are shooting at the time and I will bring them to you .
He walked away but then stopped walked back and said , "forget what I said you are doing a good job" , see he was a competition shooter .
This is the kind of crap I put up with just because I help people.
The fact is that now I dont go to the range as much as I once did.
The last vist I saw a middle aged woman wearing a range officers jacket that I have never seen her before and have never seen her fire a shot or even touch a gun.
Turns out it is a new range officers wife.
Must be a package deal .
Become a range officer and get another one free.
If you have a good progressive range run by fair and sensible open minded people . You should count yourself very lucky.
No , my range only gives instruction and help to competition shooters .
They have a video library of information but no non competition shooter can get near it, and they actually wonder why their competition numbers are not very big.
 
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The best way is to find an experienced handloader that has a good reputation for safety and sensible ideas to get you started with good safe loading techniques .
If you are shown good habits from the start you will have no dangerous problems in the future .
Reloading is not a spectator sport. So don't do it with a bunch of mates all talking and messing about or family members watching on and asking questions.
While you are learning the only person looking over your shoulder should be your mentor.

And that's the problem. I don't know anyone who reloads (That can help/teach/instruct/mentor me). Guess I'll have to ask around (Beg) at the range.

Cheers,

Mark
 
Well I would be glad to help you via e-mail as often as you like.
I sent you an e-mail but unfortunately your mail account rejected it.
I will try a PM.
Or if you are interested send me an e-mail.
Private e-mail is better because I can send pictures and drawings much easier.
I bet you run out of questions before I run out of answers.
 
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I am not saying that I am a great reloader.
But... I bought the Lyman manual and taught my self to reload using that and the instructions that were included with the Reloading equipment. I started off with a Lee Auto Turret but I wouldn't recommend a progressive for a reloader starting out reloading for a rifle.
Reloading is like packing a parachute, isn't rocket science it is attention to detail. Follow the steps as they are laid out and it will work.......usually!
I currently have a Dillon RL550 that I use for pistol cartridges and it does not automatically advance and I can't tell you the number of times I have almost double charged a cartridge.

The great thing about the powders we use for BR is that it is almost impossible to double charge. I won't say it is impossible to double charge a 6PPC with N133 because I am sure some brain surgeon will figure out how to do it.

Ted
 
I am not saying that I am a great reloader.
But... I bought the Lyman manual and taught my self to reload using that and the instructions that were included with the Reloading equipment. I started off with a Lee Auto Turret but I wouldn't recommend a progressive for a reloader starting out reloading for a rifle.
Reloading is like packing a parachute, isn't rocket science it is attention to detail. Follow the steps as they are laid out and it will work.......usually!
I currently have a Dillon RL550 that I use for pistol cartridges and it does not automatically advance and I can't tell you the number of times I have almost double charged a cartridge.

The great thing about the powders we use for BR is that it is almost impossible to double charge. I won't say it is impossible to double charge a 6PPC with N133 because I am sure some brain surgeon will figure out how to do it.

Ted


Sounds like my own experience. I learned by following the instructions included with the equipment I bought. I figured that the "experts" that made the equipment knew more than I did. I didn't try to out think them. So far I have survived 25+ years without blowing myself up. The problem I see, from reading several different forums is, people are too cheap to buy good reloading manual.

If I had waited for a mentor to help me along, I still wouldn't have taken the plunge. Or worse yet I would have found one of those "rocket scientists" that knew more than the bullet or powder manufactures and they would have helped me blow myself up.

By the way, I started with a Lee Hand press loading for a .357 Magnum and now load for over 10 different cartridges from .22 BR to .35 Whelen.

It's all about paying attention to detail and being able to follow written instructions. Some people should just not reload - or change burned out light bulbs either.

Mike Ohlsen
 
Well I would be glad to help you via e-mail as often as you like.
I sent you an e-mail but unfortunately your mail account rejected it.
I will try a PM.
Or if you are interested send me an e-mail.
Private e-mail is better because I can send pictures and drawings much easier.
I bet you run out of questions before I run out of answers.

Great, thanx. I updated my e-mail, and PM sent.

Cheers,

Mark
 
Sounds like my own experience. I learned by following the instructions included with the equipment I bought. I figured that the "experts" that made the equipment knew more than I did. I didn't try to out think them. So far I have survived 25+ years without blowing myself up. The problem I see, from reading several different forums is, people are too cheap to buy good reloading manual.

If I had waited for a mentor to help me along, I still wouldn't have taken the plunge. Or worse yet I would have found one of those "rocket scientists" that knew more than the bullet or powder manufactures and they would have helped me blow myself up.

By the way, I started with a Lee Hand press loading for a .357 Magnum and now load for over 10 different cartridges from .22 BR to .35 Whelen.

It's all about paying attention to detail and being able to follow written instructions. Some people should just not reload - or change burned out light bulbs either.

Mike Ohlsen

I know what you are saying . I started a long time ago also.
However when we started it was much easier and loading systems more simple. So that allowed us to learn more slowly as we went along.
It is different now and there is so much gear on the market of all different types and dozens of different powders and components that new loaders are confused by the dazzeling array of choice.
There is so much advertising pressure on new loaders making them believe they MUST have this or that tool when infact they don't need it to start out .
We did not need a mentor back then but now is a different ball game.
 
With a 6 PPC in benchrest today....

... where we shoot pretty close to 100% density loads, it is usually easy to see when the load is nearing capacity when it fills into the neck.

The risk is when we load powder that is too fast for the case, like 4198 or N130 or any of the pistol powders. I know of a guy who used to fireform .220 Russian into 6 PPC using N130, but forgot to change his powder bottle when he loaded a full charge into a fire formed case. He was lucky that he only had minor facial damage.

I had an experience with two different lots of H322. I was shooting a 1994 lot at 53.5 clicks on my measure that weighed about 29.5 grains. I had heard during a match that the 1998 lot was closer (in some of the older shooters' minds) to what they used to shoot when T-powder was popular (and available).

So, I bought an 8-pounder of 1998 H322 and proceded to load my tried and true 53.5 clicks of the newer lot. I went to the line with 20 loaded rounds, put one in the chamber and pulled the trigger. There was a preceptably different sound of the gun going off, smoke eminated from the loading port and bolt shroud, and I couldn't open the bolt of my Hall-actioned rifle.

After using a leather mallet to get the bolt open, the Lapua brass was "fire-formed" to the bolt face. I had to use a pair of plyers to remove the spent case from the bolt, and the primer literally fell out of the case on the ground.

I pulled the bullets from the remaning loaded rounds and thanked the guy upstairs for not causing any more damage to either my rifle or me.

I went back to my loading area and decided to weigh exactly what 53.5 clicks of the new lot of 322 was. It was 30.4 grains. And I found out later that what the old timers used as a maximum for the T-powder load was around 28.5 grains.

Point being - start low and work up and weigh your charges when developing a load.
 
Great, thanx. I updated my e-mail, and PM sent.

Cheers,

Mark

Mark, if you can't find help locally then just buy a reloading manual and read it and you'll be all set. BUT DO READ IT!!! I know a lot of people who get the manual, read a little, then get bored and jump right to the "good stuff" and start dropping charges. These people NEVER learn right. This is about like jumping into an 80,000lb rig and heading out cross country when all you've driven is your dads pickup. If you survive the pileup THEN you may be ready to start learning.......Gunpowder WILL KILL YOU!!! Just like Aunt Mabel's Buick, or a semi truck.

Take reloading seriously. I'd hope that if you were going to go push triples across country that you'd take a class on how to handle a rig VS the family sedan. Or go back even further..... you had to take Drivers Ed to get your license. You got a rudimentary education from which to build. If reloading is this important then go for it. IF, on the other hand, you just want to "see the reloading charts" and start making ammo..... then all bets are off!

I'm glad you're taking it seriously, it's guys like you who DON'T get themselves into trouble.

Ask questions here to your hearts content.

al
 
Thanx guys, I appreciate it. J. Valentine is helping out and answering questions, and I don't intend to do anything to I have a copy of, and read, "The ABC's of Reloading." Had that on my Christmas list, but alas, Midway is sold out. May have to point the wife towards Amazon.

I have a healthy respect for powder, as I do fire and electricity. Not looking to load "Hot," rather, I'm looking for accurate and safe.

Cheers,

Mark
 
Reloading manuals

The Sierra reloading manual is an ocean of information. Not only on reloading but also ballistic and general information about target shooting and hunting. I strongly recomend that anyone starting out shooting and or reloading reads it.
 
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