Shut 'er down!!

And, like most conservatives, you are distorting the issue. The guy claimed he got an email message informing him of his 2014 penalty. The penalties beyond 2014 were not mentioned and are not relevant to his claim so I did not address them.

I didn't distort anything, I told the truth and the whole truth about the penalties. You were correct about 2014 but your answer did not limit itself to 2014, it came across as being what it would be every year and that is not correct.

Typical, call it distorting when it's the truth.

I went to the healthcare website. $949.26 per month, 5000.00 deductible, 80/20 after that. Affordable...nope.


Kent,
All federal employess are not on the same health care as Congress and the Pres. Your common federal employess (basically, non appointed federal employees. Appointed employess I do not know about) are on the same health care exchanges as most jobs. There are three or four programs they can pick from, like Blue Cross/Blue Shield, depending on what coverage they want. They pay high premiums just like non-goverment employess. They can also opt-out but they get no incentive to do so like some jobs offer. Over a year ago, I check the BC/BS and it was close to the order of 740.00 per month for a family, 3000.00 deductible and 80/20 after that.

Hovis
 
Shut er down

Yes and the president is Happy about the debt DEAL"
Latest news via Internet.

First if they had a Budget with some responsibility behind it They would have to make these choices.
They voted pretty much for the continuing resolution , Business as usual.
They should be taking their time to actually go over the budget. There,s tons of waste in departments in government that are out of date.
I'm sure all of you have read some of it on the internet.
How about stopping foreign aid?, Borrowing Money to give away doesn't make any sense.
How about those pet projects for some districts, PORK, ?
Time for all of them to get out of fantasy land.
Wonder why the SS is in trouble or Medicare? Simple less people are contributing to SS and Medicare, simply because they don't have jobs.
Going from an industrial society to an information, services society didn't work. What jerk sold us that bill of goods?
It was destined for failure from the beginning.
Why worry about all of this environment BS when no one else cares.?
Carbon Footprint is hog wash. How much carbon is going into the air , Just because we don't get the forest fires or brush fires in the southwest out?
Not to mention the rest of the world. Dumb LAWS that BS the public.
More cool aid to the people from big expensive do little Government Get people back to making products and watch the economy grow''
 
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"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." Ronald Reagan, January 20, 1981

We've heard that quote thousands of times but 32 years later it couldn't be more apt.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
Wilbur--average joes?

What good is this plan as it applies to the average Joe?

The average Joe who can afford a benchrest rifle, ( plus an expensive scope, a bunch of expensive handloading equipment, large amounts of brass, bullets, powder, and primers, an SUV to haul this stuff to matches, etc.) likely already has health insurance and is immune to all the issues that supposedly come with selecting a plan from one of the exchanges (or paying the penalty for opting out).

I suspect that most of the guys who posted on this thread are "average Joes" as defined by the investment in gear described above--and they oppose the ACA not because it would affect their health care options but because they adhere to conservative principles.

The ACA was designed to help the "below average Joes" who have to go to the hospital emergency room for treatment because they have no insurance, or have been denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions, or are in their early 20s and excluded from their parents policies, etc.

I'm an average Joe (and I suspect you are too). I'm covered by alternative health care options and the ACA doesn't include provisions for me. But I support the ACA's purpose of helping the below average Joes--millions of them--who through no fault of their own have no insurance and suffer or die as a result. But, opinions differ, I guess.

PS--Many of the guys here are on Medicare (another evil socialist scheme) and immune from the ACA. Imagine that!
 
Vic, do you think that this was the best way to insure the 30 million (or whatever) that there is? Do you think this will affect your freedoms, like guns, privacy, and others? Do you think this will raise prices on other items and services for all of us? Do you think that medicine will be better for the average person in the future? Do you think costs and fines will go up in the future? Do you think doctors will be as competent and as many (or fewer) and new cures coming our way?
 
shut er down

Why should I have to worry about millions of people here that slipped thru the boarders? Why do I have to feed them ,house them and now give them access to medical care?

We give millions of $$$$ On medical care via the welfare system.

How many are Here from other nations by slipping over the boarders?. Notice I said Boarders. Its a tad tougher now but a lot slip from Canada and they are not Canadian.

The last I knew there were 14 or so million of these people Millions????? Now some people in government want to make them LEGAL with a wave of their hands.

More cool aid via the press and the all knowing generous libs .


Easy to be a spend thrift with other people money'

They have to go regardless of their party'''

Are they {the boarder jumpers] allowed to Vote?
 
The average Joe who can afford a benchrest rifle, ( plus an expensive scope, a bunch of expensive handloading equipment, large amounts of brass, bullets, powder, and primers, an SUV to haul this stuff to matches, etc.) likely already has health insurance and is immune to all the issues that supposedly come with selecting a plan from one of the exchanges (or paying the penalty for opting out).

It's a little worse than that. If you're 65 & qualify for Medicare, all is OK. If you're under 60, you're at risk. Yes, you have health insurance. But if you change jobs, you likely have new insurance, and in most states, the "pre-existing condition" clause kicks in with that new policy.

What people forget is you need a net worth of about $2 million to be immune from the health insurance industry. One bout of cancer at age 50 can cost close to 1 million if you are outside the insured group. (Yes, I know it is usually not that high. Believe me, I do know. But I also know it can cost that much.) Now if you get sick with a bad (expensive) illness, you better keep your same job, because a change in most states means you've gotta go for some time, maybe three years, with that pre-exsting condition not covered.

And the insurance companies still aren't done. The last time I had surgery & chemo, the insurance company wrote my doctor, behind my back, trying to get me declared disabled, because then they could put me on COBRA & be rid of me after one more year.

Laws don't always work. At this time, it is illegal for hospitals to have two prices. It is not illegal for them to dicker with insurance companies. So the "list price" is usually about twice the dickered price, even before the insurance coverage kicks in. Last time I had surgery, my wife had to deal with it, and on request (not that easy), she got a full statement from the hospital. It was about 10 pages of single line items, around 40 to the page. 400 line items to resolve. At that hospital (Duke), you either get one price as a line item, or you got a bill with each tablet of Tylenol listed. Nothing in between available.

The bill (5 days in the hospital) was, as I've said, around $26,000. About half of that was dickered away by the policy before we even got to what insurance covered. I wound up being around $3,000 out of pocket. But if I hadn't had insurance, that one event would have been the full $26,000.

Uh, no, I didn't change jobs, and yes, I got all over that company for trying to have me declared "disabled."

The thing people have to decide is whether or not health is a right, like life & liberty. If not, just die & don't B**** about it. If it is, look at what things cost now. It's a little different than when the founding fathers looked at "health." Hell, it's a little different than it was in 1960.

Then look at how much you will need if the insurance companies kick you out -- and if you get sick, they will try. You will be forced to conclude it will take government to have the clout to deal with them. Or, as I say, you need to have about $2 million to be safe, then you don't need the government. Or just accept it all & die quietly, leaving your heirs only debt.
 
Then look at how much you will need if the insurance companies kick you out -- and if you get sick, they will try. You will be forced to conclude it will take government to have the clout to deal with them. Or, as I say, you need to have about $2 million to be safe, then you don't need the government. Or just accept it all & die quietly, leaving your heirs only debt.

Charles,

Your posts on this thread have been the most important ones because you have had first-hand experience in dealing with problems in the health care system prior to the ACA. Thank you for providing proof that the ACA was badly needed. Of course, as with any new complex program, there will be glitches that must be fixed. Only time will tell how successful the law will be. I for one am betting most Americans will ultimately be glad it passed.
 
Vic,
1)do you think that this was the best way to insure the 30 million (or whatever) that there is?
2)Do you think this will affect your freedoms, like guns, privacy, and others?
3)Do you think this will raise prices on other items and services for all of us?
4)Do you think that medicine will be better for the average person in the future?
5)Do you think costs and fines will go up in the future?
6)Do you think doctors will be as competent and as many (or fewer) and new cures coming our way?

1) Who knows if it's the best? I think it's better than nothing.
2) Affect my guns? You can't be serious.
3) No.
4) Surely better for the "below average" Joes.
5) I think there's a good chance that policy premiums will come down.
6) New cures? They are dependent on research funding which the conservatives have slashed--the sequesters are a real disaster.

Butch Lambert: Where are your "facts" to refute my "opinions???"
 
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Hovis,
I'm retired and now pay $992.00 per month for BC/BS in NC for my wife and myself, that's without any health problems. that's with a 2500 deductible per person and 80/20 after that.
 
Shut er down

How much and how many times are we expected to pay.?
I'm a home owner . My state and county taxes are pretty steep due to all of the social programs welfare
I'm now expected to share my Medicare benefits that I pay for with People who can't afford Insurance.
Now i'll be paying on Both a local level and a federal level for people who don't work .
The Obama care is going to be partially funded by cuts in Madicare and sur charges on medical devices.
Its unfair to seniors and working people who will be required to fund it.
Its class warfare against the middle class
 
Hovis,
I'm retired and now pay $992.00 per month for BC/BS in NC for my wife and myself, that's without any health problems. that's with a 2500 deductible per person and 80/20 after that.

That's really interesting Kent. Before I was eligible for Medicare, I too was insured by BC/BS-NC, but under a small group plan. The deductible was $2,000, and the coverage was also 80/20. The cost for me alone was around $920/month. I know group rules are different, but I'm astonished you could get coverage for the both you and your wife for $992/month.

Small story: When I applied for Medicare, I did so on line. which meant no certified copy of the birth certificate. They called about that (I pointed out I had to provide a certified copy for my passport, which was both current & on file; that eventually worked).

At the timel, the women who called told me that I didn't have to sign up for Medicare, since I was going to continue to work, I could keeep getting coverage under the existing group plan. I had to gently point out that the cost for that was over $1,000 a month -- $12,000 per year, with significantly worse coverage than paying for all of Medicare Part A (well, that's free), B, D and BC/BS-NC supplemntal plan F. I believe that's about $4,000 a year. The lady had no idea of the costs, she was stunned the private plans were so much more.

And that's the problem. It is just like College costs -- I'd mentioned that my B.A. degree in the 1960s cost 2.77 Chevy Bel-Airs, and the same degree today, at the same school, cost over 8 Chevy Malibus. With Health Care, we don't need the far left plans as typified by Botox Pelosi, but we do need affordable health care. Why does it cost so much more in the U.S., esp. when the U.S. death rate is not as good as in other developed countries?

http://www.americashealthrankings.org/Rankings/InternationalComparisons

I know this report has been disputed, but that's a smoke screen with numbers. There are many others whic give similar, if not quite so dramatic, results.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=26

(U.S. is 87th, where 1 s the worst, and 223 is best.)

Is it all due to the greater diversity of wealth in the U.S. as opposed to other developed countries? I don't thinks so. Why do health services cost so much for so much worse performance? Faced with that issue, it is little wonder that insurance is so high, and that insurance companies look for ways to banish those with risks.
 
Charles,
I retired at 52, and if I recall when I first took out the insurance it was under $600 per month, since I've gotten older of course the price has risen.

I still think it's too high. I go for a physical a year, as does my wife. Neither of us had, or have health issues that some folks are plagued with. That's why I retired early, before I died at my desk!!
In this region, most folks don't clear $992 per month working a full time job. Very depressed area, all the jobs and work went away with NAFTA.
 
Gods bless the Tea Party truckers!!!

We all know it is going to take some non-establishment movement to get this country back on the right track pn track. The Dems and the GOP both are interested in one thing, the big financials and the New World Order as George H W Bush called it.

A group loosely called Tea Party Truckers are going to conduct their own slowdown of Washington DC this weekend.

Years ago, all the "brilliant conversations" were on Channel 9 on the CB radio. They had "all the answers" to any situation brought up....Some of them even made sense.

These guys and gals who move our commodities around in this country, yes part of it is Communist Chinese goods, but goods critical to our daily lives. These folks have nothing to so but drive and think so they come up with some amazing ideas, really. Something our President and US Congress needs to to, think. All this DC bunch does now is to ride in taxpayer limos and drink....not the same thing!!
 
The top 25 OBAMA Lies!

1) Obamacare will LOWER Premiums
2) Obama said you will be able to KEEP your own insurance
3) Obamacare will SAVE taxpayers money
4) Obamacare will make it so everyone has access to AFFORDABLE health care
5) Obama will CUT the budget in half
6) Obama will stop BIPARTISANSHIP in Washington
7) Obama will stop NEEDLESS wars (cough, cough...Syria, excuse me!)
8) Obama will be the most TRANSPARENT president
9) Obama will veto any bills with EARMARKS
10) Obama will jumpstart the economy
11) Obama will redo American's bad reputation overseas
12) Obama will NOT increase anyone's taxes who make less than $250k... oh wait, Obamacare is what... a tax on the middle class
13) Obama will FIX RACIAL tensions in this country
14) Obama will close GITMO
15) Obama will NOT HIRE lobbyists
16) Obama would stop raids on Medical Marijuana companies!
17) Obama would stop smoking CRACK
18) Obama would go after those who caused the Recession!
19) Obama would help with gun control (fast & furious)
20) Obama said he would televise the Obamacare negotiations on CNN (nope he paid off the DEMS with EARMARKS)
21) Obamacare would cost only $987 Billion for 10 years (it's over $2.7 trillion now)
22) Obama is an American citizen (lie or not - he closed WWII memorial to vets but opens parks for Illegal Immigrants... not thinking he's American at heart... more like a COMMUNIST or NAZI)
23) Obama said he would simplify the tax code (currently Obamacare is over 25,000 pages long, 2000 pages of the law and over 23,000 pages now to clarify the law: the total tax code before Obamacare was 73,000 pages, making Obamacare a 34% increase in the tax code)
24) Obama said he would wait 5 days before he would sign a bill into law to allow America to see what's in the bill first (heck even Nancy Pelosi knew that was a lie)

and last, but certainly not the least of his lies:
25) Obamacare is not a tax!
 
The top 25 OBAMA Lies!

1) Obamacare will LOWER Premiums
2) Obama said you will be able to KEEP your own insurance
3) Obamacare will SAVE taxpayers money
4) Obamacare will make it so everyone has access to AFFORDABLE health care
5) Obama will CUT the budget in half
6) Obama will stop BIPARTISANSHIP in Washington
7) Obama will stop NEEDLESS wars (cough, cough...Syria, excuse me!)
8) Obama will be the most TRANSPARENT president
9) Obama will veto any bills with EARMARKS
10) Obama will jumpstart the economy
11) Obama will redo American's bad reputation overseas
12) Obama will NOT increase anyone's taxes who make less than $250k... oh wait, Obamacare is what... a tax on the middle class
13) Obama will FIX RACIAL tensions in this country
14) Obama will close GITMO
15) Obama will NOT HIRE lobbyists
16) Obama would stop raids on Medical Marijuana companies!
17) Obama would stop smoking CRACK
18) Obama would go after those who caused the Recession!
19) Obama would help with gun control (fast & furious)
20) Obama said he would televise the Obamacare negotiations on CNN (nope he paid off the DEMS with EARMARKS)
21) Obamacare would cost only $987 Billion for 10 years (it's over $2.7 trillion now)
22) Obama is an American citizen (lie or not - he closed WWII memorial to vets but opens parks for Illegal Immigrants... not thinking he's American at heart... more like a COMMUNIST or NAZI)
23) Obama said he would simplify the tax code (currently Obamacare is over 25,000 pages long, 2000 pages of the law and over 23,000 pages now to clarify the law: the total tax code before Obamacare was 73,000 pages, making Obamacare a 34% increase in the tax code)
24) Obama said he would wait 5 days before he would sign a bill into law to allow America to see what's in the bill first (heck even Nancy Pelosi knew that was a lie)

and last, but certainly not the least of his lies:
25) Obamacare is not a tax!

You forgot:

26) Obama said he was born in the USA.
27) Obama said he was not a Muslim.
28) Obama said he was not a socialist.

These lies are far more important than the first 25--and prove that he is not a legitimate POTUS.
 
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