Should Custom actions be ready to go?

H

Hambone

Guest
Rimfire Benchrest custom actions are not cheap. Well there's a surprise! I hear you say.:rolleyes:

What does surprise me is that many of them seem to require additional work to make them killer. Why is that? After all they are simple machined parts. Should the quality control not be better?

If you paid $1200+ for a watch, would you expect to have to have a jeweller adjust it to make sure it kept go time before you even slipped it on your wrist?

After all they are simple machined parts
 
Ham: Because there are so many componant options,all requiring propriatary fitup, The precision action can only be machined "so far". If the actions were all to be made for the same Barrel, triger, stock bedding,ect.... it would be easy for you to assemble your rifle. This Is...what makes a "custom" rifle. As far as a "Killer" rifle. thats imo. where a Great gunsmith comes into play. And (NO ) The precision RF BR. action is not a Simple machined part, if it were.....things would be diffrent and you would not be addressing this issue.And we would All have a "Killer" rifle. Ed. One thing....Ham. Do you consider that $1,200 watch a "simple" machined part?
 
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What does "ready to go" mean? Now that it's mentioned...what does "custom action" mean?
 
Team Windsor said:
Ham: Because there are so many componant options,all requiring propriatary fitup, The precision action can only be machined "so far". If the actions were all to be made for the same Barrel, triger, stock bedding,ect.... it would be easy for you to assemble your rifle. This Is...what makes a "custom" rifle. As far as a "Killer" rifle. thats imo. where a Great gunsmith comes into play. And (NO ) The precision RF BR. action is not a Simple machined part, if it were.....things would be diffrent and you would not be addressing this issue.And we would All have a "Killer" rifle. Ed. One thing....Ham. Do you consider that $1,200 watch a "simple" machined part?
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Ed

I purposely disregarded the component parts as they are items of choice. The action however is a single manufactured unit to which those items of choice are fitted. Hence why I chose the term action rather than action assembly or rifle. However I think its bad form that any small batch manufactured action should require additional fettling by a builder in order to get the component parts of the said action to be in line, meet within exacting tolerances, or to lock with 100% bearing on all lugs etc. I accept that such builders input is to be expected from mass produced actions but not from high priced so called "custom" actions. That these things have already been done during manufacture.Is the whole idea behind the additional cost surely? Custom RFBR actions are not "precision" if they require additional fettling IMO. You would be laughed out of the building if you went to a precision manufacture like McLaren, Ferrari,or any of the aero/space industry and told them that their engine build teams would be required to do varying degrees of hand finishing to the engine components during the build process.

RF actions are not particularly complex pieces. Given the tooling a second year engineering apprentice could make one. Probably one that wouldn't require addition fettling to boot.
 
george in KY said:
IMO YES it should be ready to go out of the box....but now if a smith can lay some voodoo on it have at it.
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Wilbur

I think the voodoo has a lot to do with the mumbo jumbo chanted as its puts together, and the bones shaken and the chicken blood spilt when its all done
 
"Voodoo" is a good term to use here. The tolerances, fit, finish, etc..that are "necessary" are often in the minds of the beholder. The original manufacturer surely has no control of those thoughts and cuts out the best he can for the price. Folks then have the option to grab whatever action that comes closest to their thoughts and apply their own branding of voodoo to bring it to their specs.

In short - it would be impossible to cover the imagenation of benchresters with a single action.

Win the nationals with a wooden spoon taped to your barrel and within a month everybody will show up with a wooden spoon, a theory on why it works and where to put it...and exactly what kind of spoon you need....because not just any spoon will do....
 
Wilbur,

A custom action should indeed be ready to use as it is manufactured and that includes all the parts like the bolt, firing pin and springs. As long as there is not a note attached that says "some fitting and/or remanufacturing is required at assembly". If the action and component parts were made in a "material on" condition then it would be a kit type product and you would be expected to finish it.

There are many machine tool products made that are held to significantly tighter tolerances then a rifle receiver and they fit the parts they are supposed to fit without extra effort. If they need more money to make it right then so be it but whatever the price it should work correctly to the manufacturers specification.
 
as i think about this shouldnt this action be ready for the barrell to be screwed in? you can buy a savage target action order a barrell from shilen, douglas and others screw the barrell in set your headspace slap a stock on it and you in most cases have a shooter i have quite a few savages i have done this with. matter of fact you can do this with almost any savage action and no i have heard anyone do it with their 22 actions but at the prices now quoted for the custom 22 actions i almost think this should be expected.

seems the guy that can do this will open up a lot of things for an experimenter.

just my 2c

bob
 
Any of the custom actions that I am aware of will work right out of the box. Just about any gunsmith can take such an action, fit a barrel, bed it into a stock and it will go bang when you pull the trigger and eject the spent round. Most of the good shooters want more than that. They take more time selecting a gunsmith than selecting an action (and they should). A great gunsmith will have ideas on how to get the most out an action, fit a barrel, cut a chamber etc. Otherwise we could just have them built on an assembly line by trained monkeys. If all you want is a smith to fit parts together and have it go bang, you can easily find that and the actions as manufactured will be up to that task.
 
bill you are probably correct and as i think about it my savages all use a barrell nut which does simplify the process of tuning the action and barrell. plus in high power the shooter has more control due to reloading his own ammo.

but bone has brought up something interesting to consider as there will always be tinkerers out there.

bob
 
Then Pete, compete with an out of the box rifle. See ya at the range campaigning next season with your new Marlin. I agree for the price we pay we should expect some quality control but as far as making them shoot to their best, well, I want my gunsmith thinking about ways to make them shoot better. For those wanting an action as close to perfection as we have, I would suggest the new Turbos.
 
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Bill B said:
Then Pete, compete with an out of the box rifle. See ya at the range campaigning next season with your new Marlin. I agree for the price we pay we should expect some quality control but as far as making them shoot to their best, well, I want my gunsmith thinking about ways to make them shoot better. For those wanting an action as close to perfection as we have, I would suggest the new Turbos.
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Some of those Savages shoot amazing well Bill but I will agree, they aren't up to winning many of our matches. I have had at least 6 CF rifles made over the years, all with different actions and don't believe the Smith ever had to do anything extrodinary to make them shoot well. My RF rifles came to me built, one of them needing re-work but it was firing when it came to me origionally.
 
Reckon I need some clarification as I sense I don't know what I'm talking about. What kind of "rework" are we talking here?
 
Hambone said:
Ed

I purposely disregarded the component parts as they are items of choice. The action however is a single manufactured unit to which those items of choice are fitted. Hence why I chose the term action rather than action assembly or rifle. However I think its bad form that any small batch manufactured action should require additional fettling by a builder in order to get the component parts of the said action to be in line, meet within exacting tolerances, or to lock with 100% bearing on all lugs etc. I accept that such builders input is to be expected from mass produced actions but not from high priced so called "custom" actions. That these things have already been done during manufacture.Is the whole idea behind the additional cost surely? Custom RFBR actions are not "precision" if they require additional fettling IMO. You would be laughed out of the building if you went to a precision manufacture like McLaren, Ferrari,or any of the aero/space industry and told them that their engine build teams would be required to do varying degrees of hand finishing to the engine components during the build process.

RF actions are not particularly complex pieces. Given the tooling a second year engineering apprentice could make one. Probably one that wouldn't require addition fettling to boot.
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For what it's worth there Hammy, Ed, the guy you're lecturing here, is a master machinist, the likes of which I doubt you've witnessed beforehand, so I'll get back off my soapbox and you can continue to share your percieved knowledge. Carry on.
 
Of course a custom (benchrest) action is "ready to go." It's ready to go to a (benchrest) gunsmith, who will build a (benchrest) rifle with it as one of the components.

What you get for that $1,200 is an action the (benchrest) gunsmith is willing to work with. Take him a Mossberg, a Marlin (most) Winchesters (most) Remingtons & most anything else off the shelf, and he/she will, kindly or otherwise, show you the door.

BTW, what do you mean by "action"? (Part of) a breech block? (Part of) a place to mount the scope? (Part of) an ignition system? (Part of) a mounting system for a stock? Lots of "part of's" aren't there?

And on the column B side of things, while the bell-shaped curve for any component looks a lot shorter for "customs," it is still a bell-shaped curve. Part of what you pay the gunsmith to examine, and shorten still more, if possible.

* * *

Will someone please grease the hamster's play wheel? Maybe get him a hamsterette? (It's not called "procurement" with animals, you know.) Anything to keep him from his other favorite activity, trying to find seemingly innocent questions, then pose them in a way to spark controversy & contention.
 
Charles, lest we forget, it's what tweekers live for. Ah the perils of the keyboard life.
 
Wilbur,

If you have to take burrs off and re-hone the bore in the receiver to cure a bolt body that sticks along with sending the locking lug ring back to the maker because they forgot to harden it means you are just dealing with poor workmanship.

If the receiver comes with a closing cam of .050 and you want .100 then you have to customize it. Design features that are unique are custom. Once they build multiples of the same design they are just low production actions but after being altered from the original design they become custom.
 
Charles, Tim, & Jeffery..All well stated.Grease up! Hamster. Stop trying to stir up Shat! Build yer rifle....and because our chances of ever shooting with or against you are slim, at best. Maybe we can try a postal match with you, If you can be trusted with yer sharp pencil. We'll see what yer made of. Ed.
 
While were here, Hambone's ability to post has been debilitated because of consistent and intentional provocation. Said provocation includes (but not limited to) "Chuckles, "Timbo", etc... Let's not fall to the same level please sirs.
 
Concerning Consumer Products, in general: the quality tends to be as good as we demand it to be. If faulty design and workmanship is acceptable then that is what those who purchase whatever it is will get.
 
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