Shortages of reloading components

I'm with Ted on this. I know for one....the biggest protector of our 2nd admendment and other rights are the military. At one point during Clintons era, when he was pushing his gun control agenda, he had a survey conducted in the Army that when it came down to it. It asked if you would follow any order or law even if you didn't believe in it, like gun confiscation....the answers were so lopsided that he dropped his agenda. It really wasn't the NRA pressure or the publics pressure, it was the willingness of the military to follow the constitution over political leaders that put the end to it because confiscation couldn't take place without the military at that time. Now, I'm afraid that homeland security with it's ability to mass large numbers from several organizations other than the military might be able to try and pull it off. Do you think you might know someone who would turn you in for owning a gun for 500.00 dollars. That's all they would need to get an warrant, kick in your door in middle of the night and dig up your yard looking for guns.

Hovis
 
Is it normal to refer to our military men and women as "nitwits"? I agree with ted also. I served my 4 years in the USMC and am proud of it and would do it again.

That is a very poor choice of words and IMHO highly insulting. 2 Marines just died in Afghanistan protecting your rights, one of which is owning guns. Were they "nitwits" too?

Jamie

P.s. Hecksf(ted), feel free to check my background. Cpl James. Bicknese,
TOW Platoon, HQ Company, 2nd Marines..........1986-1990.
 
Hoarding Primers

Just a quick note to mention something I learned about storing primers. Yesterday I read on a reloading forum a post from a guy who said primers were not a problem for him because he had 30,000 primers! He didn't say how or where he was storing them, but I would like to mention that in most communities that base their building codes on the NFPA guidelines, storing that many primers in your home would be illegal! The NFPA regulations limit the number of primers to 10,000. If you have more than that, and you have a fire, your insurance company could refuse to pay off!
 
Lets just look at it this way..............

You don't have to be an actual nitwit to be in the military. When I was in, we were SO isolated, and SO INsulated from real information(as though the news media EVER gives you enough info whether you are, or are not, in the military)we would have done what EVER we were told. That "following orders is no defense" was GREAT in Nuremberg, but whenever anybody gets their tail in a crack, what's the first thing they say??? "But I was following my orders." AND, it aalllll rests on their shoulders, THEY become the fall-guy. Yes, people ARE dying in Iraq & Afghanistan, and I think it is unconsionable, and OBSCENE that they are, a good friend of mine lost a seventeen year old son in the Marines.....they are NOT the nitwits. The ones above who give the orders, who are part of the M-I Complex are the nitwits, because if they aren't, someone else will be. No, we are there to man the weapons and bleed so they don't have to. Don't get me started; IF you feel the shoe fits, then you are welcome to wear it. I know many cops, who even agree w/me, why?? Simple, they are sworn, not to defend and protect the Constitution, but the LAW.....and how many laws are "bad" laws?? Quite a few, actually, but that makes no difference to a policeman, because even if he KNOWS it is wrong, he will still "follow orders" and arrest you. Once I mentioned a conflicting point of Constitutional law to one of my friends, his reply was, "Yeah, I know, but its called a paycheck.......let 'em fight it out in court if they got the money, if they don't? TS, not my problem." And, I heard about the clinton questionnaire, but that made no real difference to billy-boy, he merely signed contracts w/foreign governments to provide troops, "in cases of civil unrest" in the US. And as for us being in the Mid-East-Asia as a result of being "attacked" do a search on your favorite engine and look up, "911-thermite" or "WTC-Thermite", some pretty interesting stuff comes up. Kinda similar to reading, "Day of Deceit, the Truth About Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor". But the fact remains, no matter HOW patriotic you, or I, am/am not, is ANYone really going to take the time and READ?? Or are they/you just going to continue to wear our patriotism on our sleeves and take offense at a statement w/out finding out the "why", the reasoning, for such a statement to be made. Oh, yeah here's two more real sweet examples: The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, where one of our ships was "attacked", turned out to be false, years later. Then there was that embarrassing incident of the USS Liberty where it WAS being attacked and McNamara & Johnson, by VOICE in REAL-TIME, CALLED BACK fighter jets that could have been there in TWENTY MINUTES to vanquish the "attackers" successfully!! And do you know what?? Those "NITWITS" went back to their bird-farm and stood down. And 34 shipmates were killed, and another 173 were wounded, I have Admiral Thomas Moorer's report right here next to me as I type. And how about Admiral Frank Jack Fletcher, who fought w/the carrier groups and won at Coral Sea, and was a genuine hero...But was villified FOR YEARS on the words of incompetents, and it was more convenient to believe them, than to dig out the facts. And No, when I used the term nitwits, I wasn't speaking about the rank and file, I meant all those who could and would allow themselves to be made into nitwits by the ones pulling the strings. And, I have to say, when I was in there, I probably would have been right there, too, because at that point in time, I didn't know any better. Thats why the young men have to go to war, because they are more physically able, and they don't have all that real knowledge that just gums up the smooth and well-oiled money machine. Here's one I haven't, but intend to read, "War is a Racket" by General Smedley D. Butler. Hey, you were a Marine, you ought to recognize the name.
 
jaybic ...

2 Marines just died in Afghanistan protecting your rights, one of which is owning guns.QUOTE]

Military personnel living or dying in foreign lands are not there living or dying for your rights. They're there projecting this country's foreign policy as determined by Congress and it has nothing to do with owning guns. They are simply instruments for carrying out foreign policy. Most, but not all, professional soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines, know that and accept that fact. Those that don't, were not properly briefed by their recruiters, as to what line of work they were really getting into.
 
"" Hey, you were a Marine, you ought to recognize the name.""

I never was a Marine and this writer was not either. No such thing as "were a Marine, except in Murthas case."
 
Abintx,

Sorry to ask and I mean no offense but have you served? If you have, you would be familiar with what you will read. If not, you will find out that you are mistaken in your previous post.

Anyone in the any branch of the military has a job. To do what they're told by their superiors all the way up to the Commander in Chief whose job is to protect the rights, freedoms and safety of the citizens of the USA. How are they not protecting our rights abroad but are at home? Are they only protecting our rights when they are NOT in harms way?

The below information was taken from www.usmilitary.about.com and is the SAME oath I took in August of 1986. It is the same oath that EVERY member of the US Armed Forces, from Generals to Privates take. It is cold, hard, unequivocable fact.

(quote)
Federal law requires everyone who enlists or re-enlists in the Armed Forces of the United States to take the enlistment oath. The oath of enlistment into the United States Armed Forces is administered by any commissioned officer to any person enlisting or re-enlisting for a term of service into any branch of the military. The officer asks the person, or persons, to raise their right hand and repeat the oath after him. The oath is traditionally performed in front of the United States Flag and other flags, such as the state flag, military branch flag, and unit guidon may be present.

In the Armed Forces EXCEPT the National Guard (Army or Air)

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

It is by this official definition that I can say that owning guns is a Constitutionally designated right(see Second Ammendment to the Constitution) that is protected by military service members who have taken the above oath to uphold said Constitution and by extension, your rights including the one to own the firearms that you post about here. It makes no diffence where in the world our troops(sailors, airmen...ect..ect)are, make no mistake about it, they are there to protect OUR(a whole countries worth)rights. You dont have to like it or even admit it but its true as the day is long.

Again, I wish no offense to anyone but I take GREAT pride in my service to my country and that oath is what I swore to protect. Reduced down to its fundamental elements, that oath is what all service members swear to. There is no oath of foreign policy. Just the one to protect and uphold the US Constitution.

jamie

P.s. Brian, I do recognize the name but was unaware of the book. I believe I will look into that also. Thanks.
 
jaybic ...

Abintx, Sorry to ask and I mean no offense but have you served?

26 years. ('66 through '93) 6 years enlisted. 20 years as an officer. From E-1 to O-5.

Idealism is a luxury of the young. Enjoy it while you can. ;)
 
I read this thread from the beginning, and have really, nothing to offer on the primer situation that has not already been said. Aside from the unfortunate "nitwit" comment, I was reading along thinking that Brain Roberts actually made SOME sense in some of what he wrote. Then he drops the 9-11 comments. Too bad, Brian. After that, nothing you could ever say would ever make sense to me again. If you don't think, no, KNOW that we were attacked on September 11, you are so far down the brain chain that even conversing with you would be a colossal waste of time.
 
Old Swede, you're probably like me and believe that we landed men on the moon too. I cannot understand the conspiracy theorists who insist that those lovely Moslem lads didn't fly airliners into the twin towers in NYC, and that even if they did that jet fuel couldn't burn hot enough to melt steel. How about weakening the steel so that it can't support the weight above it.

Nah, couldn't happen, I mean that expert metallurgist Rosie O'Donnell has told us that fire can't melt steel. Anyone who's ever worked with steel can tell us that heat can't do anything to steel. That must be why welding, hot forging, casting, and the like doesn't work with steel? Does it?

Nope, thought so! :eek:

If someone reads this and doesn't understand sarcasm I'm not going to apologize for it.
 
abintx,

I am glad to know your answer and again, I apologize for asking. As you well know, its one thing to disagree having both served. Its quite another for a person whom has never served to begin to think they understand things from the veterans perspective. It would be like me giving advice in the competitive BR arena having never went to the line as a competitor. Surely you understand where I come from on this.

On this perhaps we can agree to disagree. We both took the same oath, albeit some years apart, and I know that I am essentially "towing the company line" on my view but it does not make it untrue. If you choose to view it from a different angle, that is your prerogative and you have certainly served long enough to be entitled to your own opinion.

For a veteran of 26 years service, most of which as an officer, to simply reduce men and women in uniform to "tools" is not a position I can agree with. This strikes me as a distictly "officers" point of view as those he commands are his tools with which to accomplish the mission. After all, the mission comes before the personel assigned to carry it out right? So what if you break a few tools getting it done right? Thats the way is has to be but that does not give any one the right to marginalize what they are doing, the reason they did it, or the sacrifices made by other "oath takers" that actually believe in it.


You may view me and/or others as actually naive for believing that what we(and you) did matters and that service is a worthy cause. If you spent all that time and lost your sense of purpose or faith, thats unfortunate IMHO. If you choose to view the military folks as tools rather than folks who do what they do because they believe in it, well to each his own I guess.

If you asked a veteran of 06 June 1944 who went ashore at Gold, Sword, Omaha or Juno, whether he was a tool of foreign policy or defending freedom and by extension the Constitution, what do think his answer might be?

Anyway, take it easy

Jamie

Jamie
 
In the end....the real "Nitwits" always stand out....by what comes out of their mouth (or keyboards).

Hovis
 
Brian,

Below is a snippet of a post of yours above. Can you clear this up for me?

(Quote)
And No, when I used the term nitwits, I wasn't speaking about the rank and file, I meant all those who could and would allow themselves to be made into nitwits by the ones pulling the strings. And, I have to say, when I was in there, I probably would have been right there, too, because at that point in time, I didn't know any better.(end quote)

So, to paraphrase you above, the rank and file are not "nitwits", just the ones that follow orders?

I didnt catch this on first read but in rereading the post, I am not sure how it can be interpreted otherwise. You are right, there are some orders that for sure need questioning and plenty of those kinds of orders got people on both sides of a fight needlessly killed, but not following orders has gotten plenty of people killed also.

When I was in 29 Palms, CA( a 920 sq mile live fire range with all sorts of unexploded munitions laying around(bombs, grenades, law rockets, TOW missiles, tank rounds arty, 203 grenades...MK 19 grenades, misc 60 and 81mm mortar rounds...ect...ect, some obvious, some not), there was a standing order that essentially said " do not pick up, touch, move, or disturb, prod, or poke ANY sort of spent munition". More that a few Marines over the course of years have chosen not to be nitwits and dicarded that order only to find out that Darwin was right and the process of natural selection is alive and well.
Simply doing what your told is not being a nitwit but thats just my HO. As far as conspiracy theories. HOGWASH. Muslims did it, were proud to claim it and WILL do it again, first good chance they get.

Yep, I am biased that way.

Jamie
 
Jamie ...

abintx, I am glad to know your answer and again, I apologize for asking. I know that I am essentially "towing the company line" on my view but it does not make it untrue. If you choose to view it from a different angle, that is your prerogative and you have certainly served long enough to be entitled to your own opinion.

If you asked a veteran of 06 June 1944 who went ashore at Gold, Sword, Omaha or Juno, whether he was a tool of foreign policy or defending freedom and by extension the Constitution, what do think his answer might be? Jamie

There is absolutley nothing wrong with you "towing the company line." If that's your thing, have at it.

My father spent 20 years enlisted in the Navy and found himself at Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941, shortly after he had entered military service. He was in the PBY (amphibious aircraft) squadron you often see pictures of in magazines or news clips whenever Pearl Harbor is remembered. He never spoke of his service as defending freedom or the Constitution. He never stood on a soapbox. He just said he was there, did what he had to because the circumstances warranted it, and continued to serve after the war because he enjoyed military life and the opportunities it brought. After he retired from active duty, he continued to served our country as a federal civilian employee training Navy personnel in electronics. He loved his country.
 
Many of us have served, and dearly.................

love the country, and the people, just not what has been, and is being, done to this country. There are none so blind as those who refuse to look.
Ignorance = a lack of information.
I'm done w/this conversation, as it is obvious I cannot offer anything further of substance. As far as "knowledge" is concerned about what did/did not occur, everyone is welcome to their opinion. And in mine, I'm no more difficult to convince than you.
This is no longer about reloading component shortages, it is decidedly more political than it should be. I will not cross that imposition any farther. I have made my statements, I have my stance, and I will maintain it. Good Day. :)
 
Just a few weeks ago I was in a shop in IL run by a man with the desire to tell me about what a ripoff the people are on GunBroker who are selling all of the BR primers at such high prices.

He then preceded to sell me a box of 1000 BR-2s for $58. :rolleyes:
 
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