Shortages of reloading components

[Montana Pete]

I was just reading the American Rifleman -- a new issue. They have an article responding to queries about the components shortage.

Some of what they say is obvious. Large trucks unload at the nation's largest shooting retailers, and within hours, everything is gone. Cabela's told me they have so many backorders to fill, items like primers never reach the front desk for sale. They intend to follow "first come, first served." The back orders in their computers are the "first come," so they get the primers in order received.

Apparently hoarding is a major problem. People who in past years would buy primers a couple of 100-packs at a time are now buying bricks of them.

The American Rifleman thought that the shortages in bullets and powders were receding, but the primers problem has not improved.

One problem cited by the Rifleman is that manufacturers are reluctant to add capacity in their factories until they find out if the Obama administration is going to take measures that curtail their business. Why invest if the future is uncertain?

Some of us small operators like myself are reluctant to spend an extra $22 hazardous shipping fee to get primers through the big marts.

Another unpleasant aspect -- small shops are charging as much as $50 or even more for a brick of primers with a normal retail price of about $28. Several of the big national retailers refuse to gouge -- they can't get the primers to meet the demand, but they refuse to kite the price. Perhaps sportsmen will remember how the small shops gouged them when we come out the other side of this thing.

I don't know if there is anything new to say about this topic-- but share if you have any comments.

 

[Roger T]

I stopped by a gunshop in a neighboring town yesterday ( I know the Smith well) .He said that ammo supplies are getting better,primers are getting better (SLOW) but consistant although some brands CCI FED were alot harder to get. They had Win Lg.Rifle, Sm. rifle, and Sm. pistol with a few hundred CCI 400 sm. rifle. The price was 50 bucks per 1k (I did not ask about a limit on amount per purchase) I wasn't buying (just recieved my order a few weeks ago). According to the Smith their wholesaler has the prices jacked up and the store is at their NORMAL markup.........the wholesaler is in S.D

 

[langenc]

As I posted somewhere else a couple days ago, the first come-first served is good.

Another would be to sell(send to) all customers some primers if it werent for the ripoff HAZMAT profit enhancment for UPS.

Wouldnt it be better to ship 5k to 10 customers, instead of some hog getting 50k?, 100k??

The following from another post..

""I mentioned that there were two factors impacting primer availability; the first factor is creating the second one. Since ammo demand has consumed more of the primer supply than normal, the quantity of primers on the shelf has declined at the box stores, the reloading companies (like Sinclair), and the smaller gun shops. With the fast communication via the internet, the word spreads quickly and the result has been consumers stockpiling and hoarding primers. Individuals are buying and keeping more primers in their own personal inventories and this has prevented some reloaders from having any primers at all. We normally see people buying 1,000 or maybe 5,000 primers at a time, now we are seeing customers buying 25,000 at a time.""

 

[brian roberts]

Y'know, I can understand the feelings..........

of some folks who haven't gotten any primers recently, but my question is, "Why didn't you see this coming??". I mean, there was more than ample warning, the storm flags were flappin' in the breeze; why didn't you buy what you could have afforded, at a much lower price, LAST year??? Calling people Hogs and "hoarders" like they're some form of excrement on your soles, doesn't make any sense at all, it seems as though it must assuage the guilt feelings of some for their lack of foresight. Yes, I know some are out there gouging, but that isn't any reason to call names, because those kind of people come out of the woodwork during any unfortunate event. It seems that sometimes people call these names because, "I didn't get mine and you got yours". I even spoke to acquaintances of mine about getting an order together, a big order of 10,000 of each kind used per person, and was told, "Well, I'll wait to see how this plays out, I don't want to make that kinda committment right now." My response was, "Well, they don't go BAD." Those same guys are crying now that they can't get any of their favorite(and necessary) brass right now, and it isn't as though they DON'T HAVE THE MONEY, for they are in better shape than I am. SOME people saw the LAST primer "problem" a few years ago, and decided not to be caught flat-footed again. Some of the smarter ones got a sleeve or two last year before there was a "run" on things like there is now. Reminds me of, "The Ants And The Grasshopper". The "ants" got theirs last year, OR the BEGINNING of this year, and some of them, I guess, have to suffer, by being called names for their foresight. My question now is; How Many of You Will be Caught Asleep at The Switch Next Time???(Assuming we get a NEXT TIME.) But please, bear some of the responsibility, honestly look at some of your own conduct, and ask yourself, "What could/should I have done differently??" and do it before it catches you with your tail in a crack. And please, don't misunderstand this, because I'm NOT trying to rub anyone's nose "in it", actually, I consider the situation as most unfortunate; I wish I had gotten a bit more, but financially, I couldn't, and I have to accept responsibility for my actions. So, its up to YOU.

 

[lightman]

Well said, Brian. I bought a little heavier, last year, because i remembered the last time things got scarce. I don't expect the manufacturers to put on more employees or buy expensive equipment to meet a demand that is probably temporary. Would be nice for things to get back to normal, though. Good Shooting, Everybody! Lightman

 

[brian roberts]

In a case like that, they might see.......

the WISDOM of upgrading their machinery to be more efficient and cost effective in the future. Look at all the years Winchester, and S&W, and Savage, had the same old, tired machines. When S&W was sold to the Brits, one of the first things they did was put in new machinery. Savage, the 99 was virtually HAND-built, that simply couldn't continue; so, the production stopped on the 99 and the 24. We ALL know the story on Winchester, look at all the profits they made in WWII, and most of the "improvements" they made was to make cheaper replacements for successful models, then drop the successes and keep on, with the cheaper models, on the same old machinery. You can't tell me that Dan Wesson couldn't have brought out his revolver under his family's company's name. Now, S&W, along with Remington, are public companies, and we've seen a number of them gobbled up; and I, for one, am just a bit concerned. Who knows what this means for the American arms companies in the future?? Not all these buyers have the best interests of this country, or their company's product, at heart, I'm sure.

 

[hecksf]

I just got primers from Reds in Oak Hill today.
For $28 a thousand.

 

[Pieter.45]

I can't speak for the States but here in Belgium I have no problem to find primers.And at normal prices.

Sometimes Vihtavuori is difficult,but usually it takes no more then a few weeks to order if they are out of it.N140 has been very rare for a while,but I don't use that.If I'm halfway a large cannister I order a new one.This way I always have some on my shelf.

Sierra bullits have rocketed in price though.Last ones I bought in.323 match king were €27 for a box.Now they were €38.For .308 I changed to Lapua Scenar.Same quality,better price (on this side of the pond)

 

[Montana Pete]

Brian wrote, I even spoke to acquaintances of mine about getting an order together, a big order of 10,000 of each kind used per person, and was told, "Well, I'll wait to see how this plays out, I don't want to make that kinda committment right now."

How many primers does someone need? I fortunately purchased a brick of 1,000 at a gun show last fall, and that will last me about two years. I shoot about 500 rounds of rifle per summer.

Some of the tactical rifle shooters -- I call them the "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop" people -- may burn through a lot more than that.

But I would think that for many shooters, one thou would last a while.

When people start buying 10K at a time, they may not be acting very rationally. Especially buying at a time when shortages have pushed prices way up.

 

[abintx]

Pete ...

When people start buying 10K at a time, they may not be acting very rationally.

FEAR is a stout motivator. People don't act rationally when FEAR consumes them.

An example: Watch the stock market when stocks begin to slide on a grand scale.

FEAR causes everyone to run for the exits at the same time.

It's a good way to make big money in an abbreviated time period if you have an account that allows you to short stocks.

 

[brian roberts]

"I call them the "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop"..........

people". Hey, thanks a lot, Pete; while not being one of "those people", I still respect "their right" to pursue their hobby any way they want, as long as it doesn't encroach on the rights of others. Their rights end where mine begin, and conversely mine,....etc., etc., you get the picture. I'm not trying to "preach" to anyone, Pete, but we ALL, and I AM including YOU in this, need to reassess our thinking; just because we don't pursue, or don't "like" a particular discipline, does not equate to a lack of value in that discipline. Your posting proves that you are judging the pursuits of others, based on your own preferences, and "needs", because YOU don't particularly care for what they do. I don't care if someone wants to shoot their .50 Brng, or their plasti-gun, be it a FAMAS, an AR, an AUG, AK, or even a Tommy gun, safely. These folks are ALL a part of the shooting "PIE", if you will. I refuse to fracture and thereby factionalise the shooting sports!! I used to hear the trap shooters rag on the high-power guys, who didn't like the bull's eye guys, who didn't like the IPSC guys, who didn't like the MG guys, and on, and ON. One thing to remember, in New Orleans, in LA, and some other places, if YOUR a$$ is in a crack, you JUST might like to have one of these guys around, and that day, just might be closer than you wish!!! I'm glad you have your brick of primers, Pete, and when/if things ever SHOULD get bad, I hope your fight is as short as you've planned for........see ya

 

[alinwa]

people". Hey, thanks a lot, Pete; while not being one of "those people", I still respect "their right" to pursue their hobby any way they want, as long as it doesn't encroach on the rights of others. Their rights end where mine begin, and conversely mine,....etc., etc., you get the picture. I'm not trying to "preach" to anyone, Pete, but we ALL, and I AM including YOU in this, need to reassess our thinking; just because we don't pursue, or don't "like" a particular discipline, does not equate to a lack of value in that discipline. Your posting proves that you are judging the pursuits of others, based on your own preferences, and "needs", because YOU don't particularly care for what they do. I don't care if someone wants to shoot their .50 Brng, or their plasti-gun, be it a FAMAS, an AR, an AUG, AK, or even a Tommy gun, safely. These folks are ALL a part of the shooting "PIE", if you will. I refuse to fracture and thereby factionalise the shooting sports!! I used to hear the trap shooters rag on the high-power guys, who didn't like the bull's eye guys, who didn't like the IPSC guys, who didn't like the MG guys, and on, and ON. One thing to remember, in New Orleans, in LA, and some other places, if YOUR a$$ is in a crack, you JUST might like to have one of these guys around, and that day, just might be closer than you wish!!! I'm glad you have your brick of primers, Pete, and when/if things ever SHOULD get bad, I hope your fight is as short as you've planned for........see ya

Amen

Thank you Brian! I start feeling like the Lone Ranger here constantly pointing out to these judgemental types that just because THEY like one thing and not another doesn't make them RIGHT!

It's AMERICA!!!! We fired thousands of dollars into the AIR last nite!!! Shook the trees, the ground and the children .......viscerally and deeply...... coulda' "spent the money on the homeless" I guess but we din't! (And NEVER WILL.... my kids and my kids' kids will feel the ground shake....)

BTW, picking on "other shooters, not our type" is now called "Zumboing" from Jim's unfortunate choice of words in lumping black rifle shooters into the "pop, pop, pop, crowd." Cost him his job(s)..... (But at least Jim doesn't pick on people about shooting over 500rds a year!)

'EEEpers.......



al

 

[hecksf]

Montan Pete .....from Minnesota
I shoot a lot lees than many BR shooters But if I shot 6 practice sessions a summer at 100 rounds per session and then shot 5 VFS matches and 4 group matches at 100 rounds a match that is about 1500 small rifle primers per year.
And then I shot 3 bullseye matches at 120 rounds a match and I did 2 practice sessions a week for 3 months at 100 rounds a session that would be 2700 large pistol primers (and that isn''t much practice for a bullseye shooter).

So just right there I would need 4200 primers and I NEVER shoot an AR outside of work. That doesn't include large rifle primers I might load for my factory gun or small pistol primers I might load to practice with my CCW gun. Add those in and I might use 4500 primers in a year.

BUt look at some of the serious BR shooters. That practice all rear round.
Lets say a guy practiced 2 times a week for 7 months and went to 12 matches a year, that would be 6800 small rifle primers a year and not even 1 round of semi auto or full auto fire.

I actually know someone who has over 60,000 small rifle primers on hand and in his defense, the Lord willin and the creek don't rise he will shoot everyone of them before he dies. He bought up those primers back when they were sitting on the dealers shelf for $19 to $22 a thousand and nobody wanted them, Long before every body started to panic and worry about the new president.

 

[brian roberts]

Thanks, Al for the kind words, I..............

went through the same thing in another club, thankfully, the one I'm in now isn't that way. Basically my take is this: If you factionalise any special hierarchy, it is easier to control, and if more control is needed, you create a problem, then provide a solution. Now, if any "Coincidence Theorists" out there don't believe this, not too long ago, a man by the name of Lyman Lemnitzer died about 2yrs back. He was at one time I believe, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. I forget where I read it, but it was about 5 or so years ago that I read that in the Castro years that Lemnitzer had drawn up a plan for shooting down Americans on the streets, in Miami and Louisiana, I believe, using disguised troops, then blaming it on "Cuban Revolutionaries". Then later, I forget if it was when some classified material was de-classified, or if it was as a result of Lemnitzer's death, but here it was, on the evening news in front of everyone's nose!! Folks, we got enough problems staring us in the face, its like being in a fishbowl, we don't need any Pirahnas in the tank with us. Now, that is an analogy, not an accusitory, statement. We need to be nice, polite, informative, but we also need to be vigilant, eternally; and, above all, we need to be COHESIVE, because we face problems everyday, and they are not going to get any better, soon. We, all of us, may not like what every, or any, one else prefers, but as long as it is safe, and we do our part to keep it that way, we have a chance. Answer the demonizers with a unified, positive image.

 

[greg]

Brian..

people". Hey, thanks a lot, Pete; while not being one of "those people", I still respect "their right" to pursue their hobby any way they want, as long as it doesn't encroach on the rights of others. Their rights end where mine begin, and conversely mine,....etc., etc., you get the picture. I'm not trying to "preach" to anyone, Pete, but we ALL, and I AM including YOU in this, need to reassess our thinking; just because we don't pursue, or don't "like" a particular discipline, does not equate to a lack of value in that discipline. Your posting proves that you are judging the pursuits of others, based on your own preferences, and "needs", because YOU don't particularly care for what they do. I don't care if someone wants to shoot their .50 Brng, or their plasti-gun, be it a FAMAS, an AR, an AUG, AK, or even a Tommy gun, safely. These folks are ALL a part of the shooting "PIE", if you will. I refuse to fracture and thereby factionalise the shooting sports!! I used to hear the trap shooters rag on the high-power guys, who didn't like the bull's eye guys, who didn't like the IPSC guys, who didn't like the MG guys, and on, and ON. One thing to remember, in New Orleans, in LA, and some other places, if YOUR a$$ is in a crack, you JUST might like to have one of these guys around, and that day, just might be closer than you wish!!! I'm glad you have your brick of primers, Pete, and when/if things ever SHOULD get bad, I hope your fight is as short as you've planned for........see ya

me thinks some of the problem is attached to the rotten sons a bitches that are loading up on primers and trying to scalp them on the internet for the north side of $75 per thousand. Well, guess that's a free market economy, right?

 

[hecksf]

Greg
That should be coming to an end here in the next few months. We are already seeing primers on some of the gun shop shelves. BUt really the primer issue has been going on for over a year.
About 18 to 24 months ago when the price of copper and lead were way up the cost of primers went from around 18-22 a thousand up to 28 to 32 a thousand.
WHen that occurred I kept a look out for primers at the lower price and when I saw some I would buy a few thousand at a time.
At that time nobody wanted them. They were just sitting on the shelf gathering dust.
Also I always left some for others. I remember about 11 months ago I was at Dietz in New Braunfels and he had about 6 K of remington small rifle. I didn't really need them but at 22.50 a K, I went ahead and bought 2 K and left the other 4 for anyone else who wanted them. I went back in 3-4 weeks later and they were still there so I bought another K.
I recommend letting the scalpers choke on there $80 box of primers. If you buy there stuff it just gets more guys interested in doing it.
But the primers are starting to show up out there you just have to be diligent. ALthough I am certain that some of the distributors are selling cases of primers out of the back of the truck to the scalpers.
This isn't the first time we have had a primer shortage.
Just be patient and give it some time.
Its like the AR shortage a few months ago. I know a guy who never even owned a gun but after the election he bought 3 hand guns and 2 AR's. The racks were bare of AR's but now the racks around here are full again.
2 years ago my local dealer was lucky to sell 10 K of primers in a week. Then all of the sudden in a few days he sold everyone he had.
IF you live in Central TX I will sell you a couple of hundred to get you through the drought for what I paid for them.
Ted

 

[alinwa]

me thinks some of the problem is attached to the rotten sons a bitches that are loading up on primers and trying to scalp them on the internet for the north side of $75 per thousand. Well, guess that's a free market economy, right?

AGAIN with it!

YES, it's a free market economy! If you wanna' speculate in primers HAVE AT IT! Ain't no need for name callin'.....

"Buy low, Sell high" that's AMERICA, you want price controls go somewhere "nicer."

"Lord, save us from ourselves!"

al

 

[brian roberts]

Now Greg, I have to tell you...............

if you read carefully ALL of my posts on this subject, nowhere did I advocate, or condone scalping, and I never said anything about "Hoarding", "Shafting", "Plowing", Gouging", Riding", "Jamming", "Goring", "Plunging" "Ramming", or "Slamming". What I DID say, was some needed to be more prepared; and Hey! Pete IS prepared, I don't know what the stink was about that he raised! He got everybody in a dust-off, then he said "hey, I got mine, it'll last me two years, so I'm satisfied." I don't even know why he started it, unless it was a vehicle to start name-calling, and make judgemental comments. Matter of fact, I don't know why you started in on ME, as though I was some profiteer. If you want to see a profiteer, go to the grocery store and step up to the meat counter and ask for "dealer price", or, better yet, ask them, "Well, yeah, but what's MY price??" Go to the Chicago Commodities Exchange, and watch what goes on THERE.
By the way, what or where in my posts did I give you the impression I was benefitting from, or condoning the misfortune of others?
"Wisconsin Pete, you can sleep sound tonight, Greg is fighting on the keyboard patrol." Sounds like that old SAC commercial in the late 50s.

 

[John Kielly]

We were maybe luckier here in Australia. Some US primers started getting short 2-3 years ago & those of us who had forward commitments covered ourselves there. On that basis, I go along with those who say that elements of the shortage predated your last election.

For that matter, we have problems with any firearm product from the States. Your export regulation has screwed up direct import of many items, even though Australia has signed an agreement with the States (so I've been told) that would facilitate things from our side. There has been a suggestion that because of the change in the exchange rate, Aussies have found it even more desirable to import than to buy from local agents & the franchisees & principals have leaned on your regulators - or so the story goes.

 

[glp]

Brian...

if you read carefully ALL of my posts on this subject, nowhere did I advocate, or condone scalping, and I never said anything about "Hoarding", "Shafting", "Plowing", Gouging", Riding", "Jamming", "Goring", "Plunging" "Ramming", or "Slamming". What I DID say, was some needed to be more prepared; and Hey! Pete IS prepared, I don't know what the stink was about that he raised! He got everybody in a dust-off, then he said "hey, I got mine, it'll last me two years, so I'm satisfied." I don't even know why he started it, unless it was a vehicle to start name-calling, and make judgemental comments. Matter of fact, I don't know why you started in on ME, as though I was some profiteer. If you want to see a profiteer, go to the grocery store and step up to the meat counter and ask for "dealer price", or, better yet, ask them, "Well, yeah, but what's MY price??" Go to the Chicago Commodities Exchange, and watch what goes on THERE.
By the way, what or where in my posts did I give you the impression I was benefitting from, or condoning the misfortune of others?
"Wisconsin Pete, you can sleep sound tonight, Greg is fighting on the keyboard patrol." Sounds like that old SAC commercial in the late 50s.

I'm not criticizing anyone buying primers for their use or resale to friends. I know of a lot of folks that have sold some of their excess to friends for what they paid. THAT is the American way Al, not some SOB stiffing someone on price because they were a day late getting to the vendor for a supply after they were all bought up by the vulture. THAT is not the American way. If you think it is you are way too cynical imho.

What would I do if I ran out of primers? I would stop shooting and look feverishly for an affordable supply. I would not support scalping and those who do it. Panic is the worst enemy. Take a deep breadth, look around and trust in the good nature of many of your fellow shooters who will help you out if they have a bit of excess supply and do it for a fair price. JMHO.