serious mac1 BENCHREST shooter wanted

S

shadowalker

Guest
Need a more than serious Mac1 shooter to correspond with and compare tests, methods, findings and notes.
Have 25 yd tube and indoor 50 yd testing facilities
 
contact for mac 1

Mitch
You need to contact a fellow by the name of Frank Tirrell @1-903-734-3667 or 1-903-932-8009. He is looking for some one to talk to about airguns. He has a 25 yd tube and is really serious about these air guns. He used to work for Ed Shilen at one time.
I have a Mac 1 that shoot great but I bought it in that condition. The only thing that I have trouble with is pellets being the same every time. I only have an outdoor range at my house but have access to a 50yd indoor range at tne local shooting chicken house.
If I can be of any help let me know.
Larry Burchfield
Texarkana Gun Club/ Frog Level chicken house
 
Mac1 benchrest shooters

Larry, thanks for the help here.

My thoughts on this are: as Mac1 shooters we would collectively be ahead if we picked each others brains to sort out problems pertaining to extreme accuracy on this gun. Each of us would have something to offer to the overall picture in information concerning individual findings or tests. This in turn would help each other learn about the gun and how to improve it's accuracy.
As we both know it comes with no instructions, how to service or troubleshoot or even how how to tune it. We have had to figure this out all by our selves and it takes a ton of time before one begins to understand cause and affect.
Tim as well as others are not the easiest persons to talk to and the field target guys posting generally do not understand what we are trying to acheive. So with that said it's up to us Mac1 shooters to figure this out by our selves................your thoughts

Frank

PS: GOOD LUCK ON THE DEER HUNT.
 
Not me...

No Mac1 or USFT shooter here...

Only folks I know of in this area that have USFT/Mac1 guns are Paul Bendix and Doug Shea...

Happy shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...
 
benchrest Mac1

Mitch, thanks for the info..... where do I find these guys, Paul and Doug?

thanks, Frank
 
shadowalker,
I bought a USFT used and would love to get it shooting up to par. It doesn't shoot very good with either the .22 or .177. I am toying with the Idea of sending it to Tim to have the Generation II upgrades done.
I shoot 25 Yard AGBR indoors year round and Spring to Fall outdoors.

I have two Rapids that out shoot the USFT both in .177 and .22. With my hands I can't load the Rapids single shot. I would love to get the USFT shooting good enough for benchrest as I love the easy loading of the USFT.

Doug has a USFT Hunter that he has made most of his own parts. And has it shooting almost like he wants. He has the small tube and has trouble getting 25 shoots with out a refill.
Doug's Hunter
IMGP0017.jpg


Paul's #63
IMGP0038.jpg


I have an indoor match tomorrow and will see Doug and tell him what your trying to do.

Paul
 
Paul's letter

Paul, thanks for the mail. I see you play with the beast also. What is that stuff on your bbl?
I have jacked up the hood ornament on mine and replaced most everything. It now aggs in the ones at 25 and have 4 consecutive groups at 50 that agg .139 It took about 6 months of frustration, trial and error to get it that way.
Woody Woodall of Lothar shocked and enlightened me all in the same sentence once stating "Everything you know about benchrest will not apply to airgun" At one point I began to believe he was a true visonary but continued testing and history has confirmed it to be only a partially true statement. It depends how much you know about benchrest.
He does sell flawless barrels and I really like the choke and tool work.
Ed Shilen and I have had a hard look at several of them inside with the borescope confirming this statement.
My enlightment did not come overnight and was aided by Larry Birchfield's constant whipping up on me like a red haired step child at matches with a stock gun. This leading to many a late night inspiration and revelation.
I either had to make it shoot, give it to Larry or sell it................. Humiliation is very humbling.
I bought a pair of Air Arms EV2's that were good for nothing but fenceposts no matter what you did to them. I have 50 years of serious benchrest and one world championship behind me and know just a bit about accuracy.
Neither EV2 shot well enough to be competitive for benchrest and sent both back to jolly old England after 6 months of fighting with the president on down and bought a used Mac1. The Mac1 was my first choice and even had one on order but Tim ran over my due date by several months. I got both frustrated and stupid all in the same moment.
To date I have worked my way through about 6 months of constant testing in a controlled envirement trying to leave nothing to chance. I have gone from barrels to bedding to torque to pellets to tuners to muzzle breaks to regulating air to lube to rests to triggers to shooting methods, all in an effort to perfect this gun AND in the process got re-educated.
All areas of concern proved to be critical each lending something to the end game.
The Mac1 will shoot very well and has a great valving system. The ES on the cronograph confirms this. The simplicity of this gun is outstanding.
I will be more than glad to tell you what I have done to get where I am over the phone. I have way too much time, effort and testing to give away all the good stuff over the net.
I do have two areas of concern left that I think do affect accuracy. Both require further evaluation and testing. One is pellet skirt concentricity and the second being valving. The genenis of same the result of an ongoing situation that seems to occur within 25 shots ruining your whole day.
We have noticed that one, maybe 2 pellets in 25 go out about 3/8 of an inch for no apparent reason while shooting 12 to 13 solid X's in both perfect or controlled conditions.
I somehow have to be able to find and identify these rouge pellets. I am presently knee deep in the process of systematically evaluating and testing to locate the problem.
I already know that any skirt variation will increase the pellets gyroscopic spin from it's true axis resulting in a larger group. No rocket, voodoo or BS science here just solid external ballistics. I have sorted pellet skirts from .0000 to .0004 variation in thickness for the test.
I do know that bullet jackets used in centerfire bench competition are rejected with .0002 wall thickness as the void fills with lead and lead is heavier than copper..........ie larger gyroscopic spin. It is logical the same science will apply here.
It too is reasonable to assume a valving variation would affect point of impact. I have noticed as well as Larry that we seem to lose them vertically at 10 and 2 o:eek:clock. I personally do not recall them droping for reasons unknown at this writing, needing more history. I need to discussed the drop occurance with Larry when he gets back from killing Bambi to see what his other targets exhibit. In my mind if valving is the problem the point of impact should be random, not just up..........unless air is only increased at the time of malfunction.
In the hopes of resolving or at least learning something relating to the questionable problems I have made 2 pellet spinners to verify pellet concentricity to .0001.
One spinner checks skirt variation(THICKNESS) and the second verfies front to the rear skirt diameter variation and concentricity. both very repeatable.
I need to get into my new 70 yds indoor facility to fully evaluate both entities. I like testing and tuning at further distances than shooting as the errors/corrections show up much better and corrections can be refined to the nth degree.
Having no prior history to work with I do not presently know what the accuracy to runout ratio or affect will be. Pending tests will most likely shed a bunch of light on the subject.
The valving problem to flier comfirmation, if it even exists, can be verfied simply with the cronograph in front of the gun for each shot recording point of impact. This should be completed in about a week once I get my bench moved in.
History has taught me to never get excited looking at the results of a single test. It means nothing except maybe you lucked out. Doing the same test over and over until the obvious is undeniable is the only way to make a accurate decision.

Contact me in the evening 903-734-3667
Frank:
 
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Can say this about my Hunter, it wants to be clamped down and held tightly. Free recoil drops point total approx. 10%. Prefers CP's to JSB's. Shoots best with 1400-1600 psi. At 1300 accuracy drops off noticably. There is a longer reservoir available that will keep you in the sweet spot longer.
 
Gordon

You got to go with what works for you.
I suspect you will be investing in a larger reservoir?
Frank
 
pellets

Gordon,
When you say CP are you talking about Crossman Primere pellets? I have some pellets in a box that I got when I bought my Mac1 USFT but I have no way of knowing what kind of pellet that it is. They are in a Berger bullet box. The problem is they shoot real great but unless they are CP's I'm in the dark as to who made them.
Also do you wash your pellets then relube them with chain wax lube?
Larry
PS Frank if it's not Bambi's Daddy I'll let him walk.
 
Larry

Larry, when initially talking to Tim about pellet selection he told me that CP or JSB's would come out on top. The CP were my second best shooting pellets when tube tested and they shot VERY well. By very well I mean .100 groups at 25. They also were more consistant in weight than the JSB.

I just got clearance to get into a 100 yd barn about a quarter mile from my house that I've been eyeing AND DROOLING OVER sence my rimfire days. Got the bench, cinderblocks, target frame and pellet stop made. Should have it all installed and be in it next week to test this pellet skirt runout theory.
Again thanks for taking me to the frog level chicken coop it really made a difference.

............................I think the new world record 250x14 shot is outstanding work. It is so great to see the sport taken to another level.
Was this was shot indoors?...........................Sincere congratulations!

just kidding on the Bambi thing............can't eat the horns anyway.
 
Frank,
Today I had some free time to work on the USFT. I turned down the valve some more. Polished the inside of the swing breech. Picked up 30-35 fps but still low. What diameter do people open up the swing breech to?
I plan on changing the hammer spring next. Will see what I can find at the local hardware store.

Doug Shea has the USFT in the picture EXP-1. My USFT is just a blank barrel.
I am not sure what if anything the cover from barrel clamp to his brass mid barrel tuner does? He makes his own shrouds, brakes, mod.

Doug's 250 14X target was shot with a Rapid. And yes that was at an indoor shoot. That match two 250's were shot both by Rapids, one in .177 and one in .22.
The highest score shot in the Northeast outdoors was a 249 by Todd at Pinacle Mtn in N.H. using a Rapid.
Will let you know if what I did helps any.

Paul
 
You got to go with what works for you.
I suspect you will be investing in a larger reservoir?
Frank


Yeah, I am sorely motivated to get the big tube. The only thing holding me back is the cost. We (family) are dipping into liquid savings to shore up the house payment more often than not. And Tim's prices are not going down.

In stronger ecomomic times, they would already be installed on the gun. Especially because I am feeling more potential in this particular unit over others I have had in a long time. No Tim, I am not asking for a hand out, I do not negotiate with Craftsmen. Either I can pay the frieght or I wait until I can. :)

As far as pellets, I wash the Crossman Premiers, then weigh, then lube. The lube is a bicycle chain lube by KryTech called "Wax Lube". Only takes a little bit, repeat, only takes a little bit. The JSB's at this time only need to be weighed, however there is more and more evidence that the quality could be dropping off.

My Humble findings,

John Harris
 
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benchrest shooter

I guess no one herd me -Larry Durham , he is your man if you have one of those mac-1 super shooters.:)
 
Yes, Howard, we all hear you.

Larry Durham, former World Champ and future Hall of Famer is the one who designed and built what is now known as the USFT. Originally named the "Simple Simon", Larry's ground breaking design hit the Air Gun World like a storm and won everything in sight. It is still doing so to this date in the right hands.

The manufacture of this Air Gun is now in the hands of Tim McMurray at Mac1Airguns (spelling?)

Larry Durham has a web forum specifically for the USFT, which is in the "Yellow Forums".

Tim McMurray has a website @ MAC1AIRGUNS (don't know if thats a dot com or dot net, etc. His email is mac1airgun@att.net .

Well worth pursuing.......
 
mac-1 benchrest

Boy Howdy, thats a lot of good info..hope we have 3 or 4 of those USFT's in our next match. I think that the one's that show up will be top notch .huh ? I know that R.W. can't wait...hope that L.D. show's up. that would be a complete USDA grade A match ...don't for get it's the 6th and 13th of Dec. at the police range on federal ave.good luck.H.B.;)
 
pellet skirt concentricity

Should have it all installed and be in it next week to test this pellet skirt runout theory.

I'm not a "USFT" shooter...but...

For now I'm rolling them.I've discovered two extremes..."short arc" pellets (undersized skirts) and "long arc" pellets (oversized skirts)..the short arc ones are also "loose" in my breech...they go into my reject tin as they would no doubt be 'flyers"...got to test fire the long arc ones to see what happens with those...

 
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Pellets

crazyhorse,
Can you expound more on what you are doing with the pellets
Larry
 
lead head - crazyhorse is doing what a lot of the top British shooters do before a match. They set up an ultra smooth surface like a mirror at a slight angle, then roll their pellets from top to bottom. Try it, you'll be surprised at just how much variation you will see between the paths of the pellets. It doesn't have to be a big surface as most pellets are usually all done within 4 to 6 inches at most. ....Dave Shattusk
 
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