Sako Scope Rings

I do not think they are three digit serial numbers, as mine is "PPC B 150".

Rather I believe the serial number actually is the complete "PPC B 559".

Kevin
I have found it.
I think its an L461 action as this action had the special numbering.

03 08 1987 6mm PPC numbers A-001 to C- 180

10 08 1997 22 PPC numbers A 001 to A553

The serial number is just the , B 559 according to how Sako have recorded the production figures .
 
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Yep.......

......except that they are AI actions. Not L461 actions.

The AI actions, used for these BR rifles, are truely solid bottom actions. The earlier single-shot L461 actions had factory plates pinned into a machined opening in the action bottom.

Kevin
 
......except that they are AI actions. Not L461 actions.

The AI actions, used for these BR rifles, are truely solid bottom actions. The earlier single-shot L461 actions had factory plates pinned into a machined opening in the action bottom.

Kevin


Yeahhh, this one has a machined solid bottom receiver.


I've had people refer to these as A1's before, just couldn't find where this was called out.


Thanks for the info Kevin and all.


al
 
......except that they are AI actions. Not L461 actions.

The AI actions, used for these BR rifles, are truely solid bottom actions. The earlier single-shot L461 actions had factory plates pinned into a machined opening in the action bottom.

Kevin

You may well be correct , Sakos manufacturing history that I have does not mention these kind of numbers associated with the A actions. Only with the L461. So I thought that had to be it , but I am wrong.
Lots of manufacturing information is incomplete and not allways correct.
The A1 did come out in a solid single shot and PPC so it makes sense.
 
SAKOs.....

I believe the statement about the L461 w/pinned single-shot plate "...pinned in the bottom..." is in error. I believe the L46 was the only one w/the pinned plate. I saw a single shot action, new in '82, that had a machined solid bottom, & a trigger guard w/a long tongue that went forward to accept the forward guard screw. It may also be possible the AI; AII; AIII series ocurred before '82; I could be mistaken, this is only conjecture, as I was told about the early 46s having the pinned plate; I've never seen a single-shot L461, I'm told they are not the easiest to find & only the single-shooter in '82, & I held that one in my hands. Al, That receiver should be something for you to put one of your 6X47 LAPUA cartridges on.
 
Brian,

It's too lightly built for the pressures that I run with the Lapua case and the rifle's in spectacular shape with only about 750rds through it. I think that cutting it up would be tantamount to abuse :D:D plus by the time I got the bolthead opened up there wouldn't be any meat left!

Nawww, I'll be selling it to collect monies for my new 1K gun.


al
 
Brian.......

See page 1, of this thread, for a pic of a factory single-shot L461 action. That action is now the basis of my 17-222 PD rifle.

Sako also made the L579 in such an arrangement.

The actions were shown in an old Gun Digest......don't remember which digest.

Hope this helps.

Kevin
 
The A1-L461 was made in 1979 and 1980. I have one chambered in 222 and one in 17 Rem. They were available in repeaters as well as single shot versions. The L579 was available as an A11-L579. Not sure about the calibers available in this one. I have one chambered in 308 Win.
 
So Stiefel,

Is it an A1 or a L-461 or are you saying that they're the same thing? Or is the A1 the designation for solid bottomed L461?

I just don't know any of this stuff. I had some folks opine that my 6PPC was "made around 1980" but I can't find a definitive answer.

al
 
Al

The AI designation was available in both the single shot and repeater, though it is a L461. The PPC was actually a different action (a bit bigger by design) made to accommodate the larger diameter of the PPC case. It also is a AI/L461 action by designation from the SAKO plant. In short, the AI, AII, and AIII actions were all available as single shot or repeater. One could, at the time they were manufactured, order any of the above, in any configuration.

Rich
 
If its an A1 it should have the more modern streamlined & knurled bolt shroud.
If its an L461 it should have a round bolt shroud to my way of thinking.
I have A1 & A11 actions and they all have the streamlined bolt shroud.
However on Sakos site the specs sheet for an L461 shows an exploded view of what appears to me to be an A1 action.
Their manufacturing records that I have be able to find don't even mention the A actions?
So stuffed if I know what Sako is talking about. I think Berreta has made a real mess of the situation.
 
Al

I have a large amount of old paperwork and documentation regarding the history and guns made by SAKO. Give me a bit of time to locate all of it, and i'll copy everything and send it to you. My mother has saved virtually everything my father had related to his guns. He hunted dangerous and large game in different parts of the world. SAKO was his rifle of choice for smaller game, and HEYM doubles for the larger critters.

Rich
 
If its an A1 it should have the more modern streamlined & knurled bolt shroud.
If its an L461 it should have a round bolt shroud to my way of thinking....

Just to keep it interesting, some L-461s have the closed bolt shroud.
 
A couple of questions, if I may:

Quote – J Valentine:

Look, Sako made a huge massive error when it decided to ignore the needs of the International Benchrest and other competition shooting markets .
They were too dumb to see that if they allowed aftermarket production of add on target triggers and all the other accuracy improvements, they would cement their rifles into the competition scene.

Question: How did – or could – Sako ‘disallow’ production of aftermarket triggers, etc? Both Timney and Canjar have for decades made triggers for Sako rifles up to and including the A series. Jewell once made a replacement trigger for the Finnfire. (I often wondered if it would also fit the 491/591/691 series, and the Models 75 and 85, but now it is out of production, it’s a moot point) I also heard of an Australian manufacturer producing a true benchrest class trigger for Sako rifles some years ago, though I was never able to find which models, but I understand that it, too, is now out of production.

Do you REALLY believe that Sako – or any other major producer – could have come up with a rifle that would satisfy serious BR shooters for very long? Let alone do so at any sort of profit?

Quote - R Stiefel:

The AI designation was available in both the single shot and repeater, though it is a L461. The PPC was actually a different action (a bit bigger by design) made to accommodate the larger diameter of the PPC case. It also is a AI/L461 action by designation from the SAKO plant.

I have to question your statement that the PPC uses a larger action. Amongst my rifles I have a Sako 222 Rem of unknown age, and a Sako 6PPC made in 1989. The receiver of the 222 is stamped AI 17**** followed by what I presume are proof marks. The receiver of the 6PPC is stamped Sako PPC B 6** followed by proof marks.

Apart from the fact that the 222 is a magazine action and the 6PPC is a solid-bottomed, single shot job, the actions are practically identical. It’s difficult to measure them precisely without taking them out of their stocks, but if anything, the receiver ring of the 6PPC is fractionally SMALLER than the 222. The two bolts are so similar that they will actually interchange, at least as far as fit in the receivers is concerned. (I have never actually tried it, but it’s plainly obvious that the 222 bolt would not fully close in the 6PPC rifle with a cartridge in the chamber!)

Another curious thing is that despite both bolt shrouds being the enclosed type apparently characteristic of the AI action, the factory documentation that came with the 6PPC rifle says in big, bold type on the front page, that is a Sako L 461, Varmint Model. The correct serial number is shown in the appropriate panel, so I must assume that the documentation IS the original.

More puzzles and apparent contradictions?
 
RedRover

The inside diameter of the actions manufactured for the PPC are a bit bigger to accommodate the bigger diameter PPC case. I suppose if proof other than the descriptions given by SAKO for their actions is what you are looking for, you could try to insert a PPC case in the 222 action. I just tried this on both my 17 and 222. I can force it in, but its tight. If I am not mistaken, I believe I said the A/I action is an L461.

Rich
 
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Sorry, but I don’t understand what you mean.

Referring to my two actions, the outside diameters of the receivers are the same. The boltway diameters are the same. The bolt body diameters are the same. The bolt lengths are the same. The widths across the locking lugs are the same.

The counterbore in the nose of the PPC bolt is larger in diameter – obviously – to accommodate the larger diameter head of the PPC case. Is that what you are referring to? Though this doesn’t quite add-up, either, because trying to get a 6PPC case head into the counterbore in the nose of my 222 bolt isn’t a tight fit, it’s a physical impossibility.

Could you clarify, please.
 
A couple of questions, if I may:

Quote – J Valentine:

Look, Sako made a huge massive error when it decided to ignore the needs of the International Benchrest and other competition shooting markets .
They were too dumb to see that if they allowed aftermarket production of add on target triggers and all the other accuracy improvements, they would cement their rifles into the competition scene.

Question: How did – or could – Sako ‘disallow’ production of aftermarket triggers, etc? Both Timney and Canjar have for decades made triggers for Sako rifles up to and including the A series. Jewell once made a replacement trigger for the Finnfire. (I often wondered if it would also fit the 491/591/691 series, and the Models 75 and 85, but now it is out of production, it’s a moot point) I also heard of an Australian manufacturer producing a true benchrest class trigger for Sako rifles some years ago, though I was never able to find which models, but I understand that it, too, is now out of production.

Do you REALLY believe that Sako – or any other major producer – could have come up with a rifle that would satisfy serious BR shooters for very long? Let alone do so at any sort of profit?

Quote - R Stiefel:

The AI designation was available in both the single shot and repeater, though it is a L461. The PPC was actually a different action (a bit bigger by design) made to accommodate the larger diameter of the PPC case. It also is a AI/L461 action by designation from the SAKO plant.

I have to question your statement that the PPC uses a larger action. Amongst my rifles I have a Sako 222 Rem of unknown age, and a Sako 6PPC made in 1989. The receiver of the 222 is stamped AI 17**** followed by what I presume are proof marks. The receiver of the 6PPC is stamped Sako PPC B 6** followed by proof marks.

Apart from the fact that the 222 is a magazine action and the 6PPC is a solid-bottomed, single shot job, the actions are practically identical. It’s difficult to measure them precisely without taking them out of their stocks, but if anything, the receiver ring of the 6PPC is fractionally SMALLER than the 222. The two bolts are so similar that they will actually interchange, at least as far as fit in the receivers is concerned. (I have never actually tried it, but it’s plainly obvious that the 222 bolt would not fully close in the 6PPC rifle with a cartridge in the chamber!)

Another curious thing is that despite both bolt shrouds being the enclosed type apparently characteristic of the AI action, the factory documentation that came with the 6PPC rifle says in big, bold type on the front page, that is a Sako L 461, Varmint Model. The correct serial number is shown in the appropriate panel, so I must assume that the documentation IS the original.

More puzzles and apparent contradictions?

I understand what you are saying but I meant Sako managment did not allow
a large scale production of its own add on target accessories. I was not very clear on that and have used the word aftermarket incorrectly I meant to say inhouse . Thanks for pointing that out . I know this to be a fact as I tried to change their minds many years ago . Some other companies have made a few triggers for Sako's but generaly even they were hard to find in my day.
In my day the Sako action was very popular in BR shooting but eventually became exstinct because Rem 600 & 700 had somany add on options and were easyier to accurise. Well Rem satisfied a lot of BR shooter for a long time far better than Sako ever did. I can sense that you are taking this as a slight against Sako's. I am a big Sako fan but you can not take away from the success of the Remington company.
 
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[QUOTE I can sense that you are taking this as a slight against Sako's. I am a big Sako fan but you can not take away from the success of the Remington company.[/QUOTE]

No, please don’t think that. I was just puzzled by what I took as your implication that Sako actively prevented other parties making target shooting accessories for their rifles. I certainly AM quite keen on Sako rifles – I have several, and they are among the last I would ever want to part with – but I’ll readily concede that they have seldom been a major force in benchrest shooting. Not in the last few decades, anyway.

I recall that back in the late 1980s, The American Rifleman staff tested a heavy barrelled, single shot, Sako 6PPC, and proclaimed it to be the most accurate factory rifle they had ever seen. But – the overall average size of the groups they were achieving was still not something that was going to have serious BR shooters rushing to buy them. I doubt that any general ‘warming over’ would have made that model into a BR winner, either. To achieve this, they probably would have needed to design a much more ‘meaty’ and rigid action, to be heat treated before final machining, with a faster lock time and a much superior trigger, a pillar bedded, BR-style fibreglass stock, and many other refinements.

Who know if the big wheels at Sako ever seriously considered such a project? If they did, they obviously decided it wasn’t worth pursuing. Maybe they looked at the ‘career’ of the Remington 40XBR, which was about the only real attempt by a major manufacturer to produce an off-the-shelf BR rifle, and didn’t like what they saw. (in terms of results both in competition, and on the balance sheet) Maybe they thought that their heavy barrelled varmint rifles could compete head on with the likes of the Sendero and the 40XB in other types of target shooting?

Like you, I wish there were more aftermarket accessories available for Sako rifles, especially high class target triggers. One would think, from the postings that appear on various internet forums, that there must be quite a demand for such triggers, but nobody who has tried to meet this (apparent)demand seems to stay with it for very long.

I don’t dispute that the Remington 700 series rifles have been very successful, but I can’t help snorting at some of the claims that are made for them. The most frequent one being that that they MUST be the most accurate rifles available, because they have won so many BR matches. Sounds good, but when one looks a bit deeper, it often transpires that the only Remington 700 part used has been the receiver (and that has been extensively re-worked) and the bolt, trigger, barrel and stock have all come from other sources. Is it REALLY still a Remington?
 
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