?????'s on bullets

Mike

Lester sends my bullets in the tubbs that the jackets come in.
I guess I should not mix "tubbs".:D

Seriously, you are correct. Unless you order your bullets in large quantities, and the bullet maker assures you that all of your bullets will be made on the same run, then do not assume that the boxxes contain bullets from the same lot of jackets, or were made at the same setting.

Getting to know your bullet maker is as important as getting to know your Gunsmith.........jackie
 
Taxman....Listen to what jackie told you. Jackie has just shortened your learing curve by a few thousand bullets. Also, Mike and Kent (along with some others gave good advice). Don't mix bullets...get the die Kent told you about. Great rifle...good choice...Bob is a top notch guy.

One thing a poster hit on...wind flags. Get some and learn them. I recommend Hensley flags (that's what you'll run into the most of). Grahman and Carbon river flags (amoung others) work well also. You can also make your own for about 8.00 each that work very well.

Hovis
 
Too say I am delighted with the responses is an understatement. I have read and looked on for about a year now. I have recently purchased Ratigan's book, The Bench Rest Primer, Handloading for Competition and The Ultimate in Rifle accuracy. Huge amount of info in the 4 books.

I definitely appreciate the learning curve and savings of bullets. I choose my rifle selection and loading components due to the responses of the posters to this thread.

I made the mistake of going a mod 700 custom 243 AI earlier this year. That whetted my appetite for ever more accurate shooting. I have had a couple days of real good shooting with this rifle. It will consistently stay in the 3's & 4's and occasionally a little better. Not bad for a field rifle.

Wind flags are next on the schedule to purchase.

I also have a chrono and will be diligent in using it and taking a lot of notes.

This forum is great and leave the politics in the coffee shop were it belongs!!

Thank you very much for your help. I cannot wait for the rifle to show up!

Tony
 
Lester sends my bullets in the tubbs that the jackets come in.
I guess I should not mix "tubbs".:D

Seriously, you are correct. Unless you order your bullets in large quantities, and the bullet maker assures you that all of your bullets will be made on the same run, then do not assume that the boxxes contain bullets from the same lot of jackets, or were made at the same setting.

Getting to know your bullet maker is as important as getting to know your Gunsmith.........jackie

I made some bullets for LW a few years back and ran about 100 or 200 short of 1000. I had 100,000 of the same jackets, used the same lube, same cores, same die settings, same amount of lube. I made up the difference and tossed them in the box to round out the 1000. LW started getting double groups at 200 yds. One outs and three and twos. At the end of the day, when his agg was trashed, he sorted the remainder using a Juenke machine. The TIR on each batch was fine, but the pointer would point to a different part of the scale for the two "batches." Once sorted, the double groups disappeared. I've since repeated that experiment and had the same results. I don't know what causes it, but it happens.

I bought some of Lesters 00's from a shooter that wasn't having great luck with them and wanted to try something different. He sold me a bunch of different boxes he had sorted by weight. It took me a while to realize what he had done, and some very frustrating matches, but I finally figured it out. Yep, I confirmed with him that he had dumped a bunch of boxes together and sorted by weight. That explained a lot of my 4 and 1's and 3 and 2's. Probably explains why he didn't have great luck with them either. Take care.
 
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. . . he sorted the remainder using a Juenke machine. The TIR on each batch was fine, but the pointer would point to a different part of the scale for the two "batches." Once sorted, the double groups disappeared.
Mike, as a side note, this is the only use I make of my Juenke. Early on, I was sorting the then-new Sierra 142 MKs, and noticed that the "absolute" reading came in two spots -- which, as I had the machine set up, correlated to a base-to-ogive measurement. I still use it that way, but only sort long-range bullets. Maybe I should try it with the Point-Blanks, though I tend to agree with Jackie, just shoot them. Small variations in BC shouldn't matter with PB benchrest, & as I tend to use either a serious jam, or serious jump, that obviates the other reason for doing a base-to-ogive measurement.

FWIW
 
Charles E

I tend to agree with you respecting the Juenke. Here's what I "think" it does. I think the machine measures the rf energy reflected by the lead core. In so doing, it can predict an out of round bullet (the amount of deflection, i.e., the amount of reflected radiation, will vary if the top of the core is not is not perpendicular and concentric with the steel balls as the bullet rotates) and variations in the length of the bullet by comparing its cross sectional area -- the magnitude of the deflection, i.e., where the needle points on the scale.

The problem, as you suggested, lies in the first application. If during the core seating operation, you get a substantial amount of bleed by, or unequal amounts of bleedby, the total amount of deflection will be horrible even though the bullets may shoot like a house on fire because the amount of lead bleed by is not enough to upset the bullets CG during flight, but it is enough to skew the needle deflection. I actually tested seated cores on the machine and found this to hold true, hence the reason for my hypothesis. This situation is, of course, innocuous. The other aspect, however, is not.

I have a bullet die that makes bannana shaped bullets. One "side" of the o-give is markedly more tapered than the other giving it a sort of bananna shaped appearance. These bullets are wierd. Three or four will go into a tiny hole then one will zing into the next county. They don't shoot consistently well at all. Never did. They all show huge defections on the Juenke and getting the amazingly small multishot mini groups wouldn't be expected.

This got me thinking. Ever notice how the meplats of some bullets are round and flat whereas others are flat on only one side -- the side the extractor punch hits. I did several experiments and found I could create these uneven meplats by either using too small a punch and cocking the jacket / unseated core on the core seating punch or by allowing the edge of the seated core to hang off the punch during the point up operation. Both of these poor bullet making techniques created the dreaded bannana shaped bullets, but to a far lesser degree than my horrible die. The Juenke would detect the difference by showing greater deflection, but in the real world, the only way to distinguish between a bullet with too much bleed by and a cockeyed bullet is to spin them, preferrably at 160,000 rpm or more, towards a target and observe the results.

The absolute reflected energy, ie, there on the dial the pointer points, is indicative, I believe, of the total reflected energy and is an objective indicator that something about the bullet is different, i.e., longer, shorter, fatter, or skinnier. And, unlike the above described scenarios, you don't have to guess whether the difference is or is not innocuous. If they show up on different points on the scale, they will probably show up on different points of the target.

Now you know why I don't make bullets anymore.
 
Canastota range is 3 miles from exit 34 off I-90. Where in central ny are you.
 
???? on bullets.

I believe that weight does make a differance.
The proof is in the shooting. How many zero groups have been shot with bullet weights that weren't close.? I make my own'
My bullets are with in 1/10 of a grain in weight. and i believe that uniform core seating makes uniform points. You need uniform core weight for that.
 
Hi Butch,

I am smack dab in the middle of the Finger Lake Region in a small community called Dundee. We sit about 12 miles North of Watkins Glen and about 12 miles South of Penn Yan. Syracuse is about 1 hour and 15 minutes away. So it would not be too bad of a ride.

I have looked at the IBS web page listing for your range, looks very nice!

Thanks,
Tony
 
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