Question for Gordy Gritters

MColeman

MColeman

Club Coordinator
I have the DVD and have watched it. You add a few 'moves' that I have not used but we chamber very much the same way. One thing you do that I've never done is index the barrel. In the DVD you have the action in hand and that simplifies things immensely. My question is how do you index the barrel when the action is glued in? I'm figuring a way in my head but you may have a simple way of doing it than I have envisioned so far.
Many thanks,
Mickey
 
MColeman said:
I have the DVD and have watched it. You add a few 'moves' that I have not used but we chamber very much the same way. One thing you do that I've never done is index the barrel. In the DVD you have the action in hand and that simplifies things immensely. My question is how do you index the barrel when the action is glued in? I'm figuring a way in my head but you may have a simple way of doing it than I have envisioned so far.
Many thanks,
Mickey
Click to expand...

Hi Mickey,

The only way that I have been able to do it with my own competition (Pandas quantity of 3) glued in actions is to create a female "dummy" threaded sleeve that mirrors my actions threads and scribe index marks on the sleeve relative to the start of the threads.

This works great for my own competition actions but would be a nightmare to create for customer based gunsmithing.

I will be interested to see if Gordy has another method for customer based barrel index/chambering for glue-ins without using a "dummy" threaded sleeve tool................Don
 
Don said:
Hi Mickey,

The only way that I have been able to do it with my own competition (Pandas quantity of 3) glued in actions is to create a female "dummy" threaded sleeve that mirrors my actions threads and scribe index marks on the sleeve relative to the start of the threads.

This works great for my own competition actions but would be a nightmare to create for customer based gunsmithing.

I will be interested to see if Gordy has another method for customer based barrel index/chambering for glue-ins without using a "dummy" threaded sleeve tool................Don
Click to expand...
Don,
I have a threaded insert for Kelbly's actions that I bought from George K. I was going to use that. I have it marked where to inscribe the caliber so I was just going to guesstimate where the bottom of the action is on the insert and use that. It should be very close.

Now, there are some things that we do because we think it makes a difference. I've never indexed barrels before but have chambered some barrels that really shot. Maybe I got lucky on those, who knows? One thing about benchrest it's almost impossible to quantify the effect any one thing has on an aggregate because every rifle and every group is a Law of One.
Thanks, Mickey
 
Mickey

I just ordered the DVD. I'm not a machinist, but I hope to buy a lathe and mill to thread and chamber rimfires for my own amusement.

Is the DVD too advanced for a beginner like me or will it help?
 
Keith,
It will mention many things that you just can't absorb simply because you don't have the background as of yet. Don't worry, you'll get there.

I would suggest enrolling in a community college that offers a machine shop course and get some experience in the lathe and mill. You could get the basics in just one semester. As you learn things you'll see that 'doors' open up in your mind and you'll see how you can apply things you learn in other areas. If I can do it, you can do it.

Good luck.
 
Indexing barrels

Hi, Mickey

I always enjoy reading your posts, and hope to meet you some day!

I do very few glue-ins and haven't been indexing them. I started to index the barrels in the "up" position on 1000 yard and extreme range rifles to help gain a few extra minutes of usable elevation on the scope, and it was so easy to do that I now do it on just about every barrel I install.

I don't really know if it even helps accuracy much, but I do like the idea of the weight of the barrel and the curvature of the bore (for harmonics purposes) to be in more of a 6 or 12 o'clock position rather than hanging to the side at 3 or 6 o'clock, even though it is only by an extremely slight amount in most cases. But it definitely does help gain a few more minutes of elevation at long range and sometimes this is sorely needed to help a guy get zeroed at 1000 yards and not be completely out of elevation adjustment.

Thanks!
Gordy
 
Gordy,
Thanks for your kind words. I'm always pleased when my posts provide some measure of help or amusement for others. I guess some are amused at me showing my ignorance on some matters but I do what I can. ;)

For the life of me I could never understand how indexing the barrel would make a difference in accuracy but that shows I was making an assumption that was not warranted. You do it for a purpose that never comes into play for us point blank shooters! That is, indeed, a revelation that clears up a lot of misunderstanding on my part. I can't thank you enough!

I hope your future contains more blessings than you can contain.
Warmest regards,
Mickey
 
Mickey,

Using a device like you have for the Panda, if you have a take off barrel from the action you are fitting a new barrel to it would be easy. Mark the very top of the take off barrel when installed to the action. Remove the take off barrel and install the threaded sleeve on the take off barrel. Mark the sleeve to match the mark on the barrel. Now the sleeve can be used to machine the new barrel and index to 12:00 or 6:00 which ever you prefer.

Regards,
Joel
 
I just got around to watching the chambering DVD friday night and was pretty impressed with the video. It is certainly one of the best videos that I've seen on chambering a rifle barrel. The shop in the video certainly looks like it would be a pleasure to work in. I was very impressed with the organization of the shop as well.
 
J. Pendergraft said:
Mickey,

Using a device like you have for the Panda, if you have a take off barrel from the action you are fitting a new barrel to it would be easy. Mark the very top of the take off barrel when installed to the action. Remove the take off barrel and install the threaded sleeve on the take off barrel. Mark the sleeve to match the mark on the barrel. Now the sleeve can be used to machine the new barrel and index to 12:00 or 6:00 which ever you prefer.

Regards,
Joel
Click to expand...
Joel,
This is a prime example of how an idea will 'float' in one's mind but a suggestion will make it clear as crystal. I'd been thinking about this off and on but your suggestion made it so simple and clear I can't believe it was not readily apparent to me. Many thanks. I know just how to do it.

Now the question is, will it have any effect on accuracy? Gordy seems to dismiss this and, instead, says he did it soley to get more elevation. That makes the most sense to me and, as I said, I was obviously making a false assumption which proves that we should not assume anything most of the time.

Thanks, again.
 
Mike Bryant said:
I just got around to watching the chambering DVD friday night and was pretty impressed with the video. It is certainly one of the best videos that I've seen on chambering a rifle barrel. The shop in the video certainly looks like it would be a pleasure to work in. I was very impressed with the organization of the shop as well.
Click to expand...


I loved the shop as well. I would be too scared to work on a wood floor though:eek:
 
Gordy, I have aquired your video, even though I live in Canada, I had a newfound friend pick it up for me at the shot show,hehe.
I am a virgin to all of this, so I try to read a lot and comment very little, but I do have a question.......
In your video, when you explain about indexing the barrel, I am confused, it seems as if you are telling to index the outside of the barrel in the upwards postition, but should it not be the indexing the upward sweep of the rifling..........
I`m sure I havnt explained myself properly, and I apologise in advance, but I hope you see what I an getting at....
Thanks for your time,
Cdog.
 
MColeman said:
Now the question is, will it have any effect on accuracy? Gordy seems to dismiss this and, instead, says he did it soley to get more elevation. That makes the most sense to me and, as I said, I was obviously making a false assumption which proves that we should not assume anything most of the time.

Thanks, again.
Click to expand...

Hi Mickey,

Here was my last indexing experience, and I am still not sure whether indexing has any effect on accuracy after having run several different indexing tests.............Don


Here is my last attempt at indexing a barrel in order to improve a slight leakage problem on a LV barrel, that looked like it might be competitive if the problem could be fixed............see targets 1-4, 100 yards, 5 shot groups, with leakage problem of best load 6PPC, 30.0 gr N133, 66gr FB.

Took the barrel/action put it in railgun adapter, fired 3 shot groups, 3-6-9-12 oclock positions (relative to top of action, barrel curvature had not been predetermined while in lathe), by spinning barrel/action in railgun adapter barrel block, all using the same aimpoint= 7 oclock position of target#5. 9 oclock impacted highest, 3 oclock lowest, and 6,12 oclock impacted together in the middle of the high and low, leading me to believe the barrel curve was probably in the 9 oclock position relative to the top of the action. Surprisingly little impact overall change with different index positions, no more than 1 inch verticle change.

9 oclock position seemed to fire the smallest 3 shot group so I followed this up with (2) more 5 shot groups, targets 6 and 7, .210 and .230 moa respectively, both slashing from 1 to 7 oclock, and no better improvement over targets 1-4.

So another single indexing experiment with no clear cut improvement or conclusion, others I have performed have also generally resulted in the same outcome.................Don
 

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Wood floor in Shiraz"s shop

Dear Dusty, I was also impressed by the layout and cleanliness of Shiraz's shop. I spoke with him at the Shot Show about the floor that we see in the video. It is a vinyl sheet product that looks exactly like wood. Shiraz told me that he got a great deal on it. It was a left over from another job that the floor people had done. The good news about the vinyl floor it that when one drops a case or tool on the floor. The case neck or the cutting edge of the tool is usually not damaged. Unlike the epoxy coated concrete floor in my shop.
 
Don,
Thanks for the post. Unfortunately the resolution is not all that good and I'm afraid I can't interpret what I see. Since nobody can say for a certainty that indexing will do anything other than give a couple more minutes of elevation which is of no consequence in point blank benchrest I doubt I give it much effort.

I will get the first 2-3 inches of the barrel running true as Gordy shows in the video but that's mainly what I got out of the video......other than a guilt trip over the super clean shop. Mine looks like Al Queda camps out in it most of the time. ;)
 
Hey Grody

I tried to email you to order one of the CD's but it got bounced. Can you please get in touch with me? Thanks, Pete Wass
 
Barrel indexing or rifle indexing..?

In the discussion of barrel indexing some posts have stated that they have tested the theory by placing a barrelled action in a barrel vise and fired it in different "clock" positions and can't see a change...:confused:
The concept of barrel indexing in my view is the barrel indexed in relation to the action and bolt...
I personally have a preference of having a "Land" at the 6 oclock position in the chamber throat..
If one does a true indexing test it would be in my opinion the set back and alignment of the same barrel on one action in each of the "quarters" of the clock...12-3-6-9
As Gordy is doing...one might even go as far as testing a barrel at all position of the clock...
It may take a lot of time and effort..to prove or disprove any accuracy gain, but it would be no more effort than has been put into "tuner" developement.
 
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