powder trickle on digital scale

T

tatco

Guest
I've read all the threads on scales but didn't see this specifically addressed. Does anyone know of a portable electronic scale that you can trickle powder charges into? I'll throw a charge lets say 27 & 3/4 grain then trickle up to 28. Seems most of the current breed of scales like the Dillon D Terminator, and some of the inexspensive scales wont register when trickled. Looking for something small that I can pack to the range.

Or if you know of a technique that would give me a comfort level when I reload at the range. I'll use my Harrel and drop charges then advance click by click until I get there? will the RCBS 750 let me trickle?

At home I have a Chargemaster 1500. Love it.

Thanks
 
Yes,the RCBS 750 will allow you to trickle,BUT wind is still a problem while trying to use it at the range...good luck...gpoldblue
 
OK...... I like Dillon. The Blue Press Boys are great....... but that stupid D Terminator unit should never have been concieved!

I've since owned 7 electronic scales from 9.95 to 250.00 and all of them are capable of being trickled onto.

I gave the Dillon scale to a friend for weighing archery stuff and use a MMX 123 nearly every day ( http://www.6mmbr.com/mxx123test.html ) and it is my opinion that this is the best scale for the money. If you're buying ANYTHING for less just drop clear down to say a 20.00 balance beam or even the $9.95 Harbor Freight scale that goes to the tenth of a grain. CORRECTION The little Harbor Freight scale does NOT go to tenth grain........see next post.


The MMX123 is where real accuracy starts, capable of weighing single kernels of powder.

opinionsby




al
 
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BTW, the teensy liddle Harbor Freight jobby ( http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-gram-digital-scale-97920.html ) makes a handy range scale. I think it's still a good idea to carry along a known weight. It regularly goes on sale for 10 bucks.


Now I'ma' run down and piddle some powdahh on the liddle HF scale and make SURE......

LOL

al


EDITEDITEDIT!!!!!!!

I bought one of these for a friend for use with his portable (pocket) prairie dogging setup.

I checked it against another scale and I did check it for trickle back when I bought it BUT! ..... I just went down and checked the one on my gadget shelf and found it to be SLOW and not capable of resolving fractions of a grain.

Yes the little scale will work for my friend's 223 and 22-250 in the field but I WILL NOT RECOMMEND IT for an accuracy scale. It's a "to-the-grain-only" rough around the edges little bugger.

But yes you can trickle onto it!

Sorry for the misleading information, I'll leave all this mess up in case someone read the pre-edited version. I hope they come back if they did!

So. I'll stick with my reccommendation of the MMX123 for a GOOD scale and recommend a small (RCBS/Hornady/Redding/etc) for a cheapo range scale.

alagain
 
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This is what I wrote for a friend when he started using portable electronic scales (the same ones I do):

Loading with electronic scales.

Never trust any scales, electronic or balance. Conditions will change their performance. Therefore, make a test weight for every load you use regularly & mark it so you know which is which. I use old .222 projectiles & trim the soft points with a break blade knife until I have the right weight.

I weigh using the milligram scale option, because 1 milligram is pretty close to 1 kernel of N550, meaning I can load to that precision, all else being equal. I can make you more conversion tables if you need them.

Rules:

Only remove the pan from the scales to dump the load. If you take it off during the loading process, you’ll have to start again because you will likely lose some precision. Scales use what’s called a floating tare facility, which allows them to adjust their tare weight as conditions change, but you don’t want that flexibility to be part of your loading.

Always either measure up to a weight (as you’d normally do), or load down from more than you want – don’t mix. If you drop too much on, take it back under before working to your load.

Force the scales to evaluate every addition you make (even one kernel of N550) by “leaning on” the pan after you add powder. Scales have a bit of “fuzziness” in their precision, which can cause them to translate a small change as a tare correction. Gently touching the pan with something like a flexible spill pf paper will cause the mechanism to positively evaluate every addition.

Give the scales time to settle. On occasion, just one extra kernel can set the load virtually half way between a couple of graduations. Eventually, it will make up its mind & settle on the “correct” value.

Keep away from drafts. These are fine scales & can be influenced by zephyrs, but not as much as some, I’ve noticed.

Procedure:

1. Make a powder shovel. I tear a rose leaf shaped piece of paper out of one of those newsagent cheap paper bags & crease it along the centreline right through the point. That stiffens it up ever so slightly & lets me pick up one kernel, 5, a dozen or whatever to toss in the pan – and scoop out some if I overload it. The paper tears with a fuzzy edge that helps picking up powder.

2. Set up powder thrower to toss just under desired load.

3. Set up scales & check with standard weight & test weight. Add pan and tare scales.

4. Check that scale is reading correctly using your test weight.

5. Throw a charge into a separate container (I use a balance pan from my beam scale) & pour it into the scale pan, making sure that you don’t bump the pan or scales.

6. Lean on the pan with your paper roseleaf, wait & read.

7. Add powder with roseleaf, lean & read until correct reading occurs.

8. Remember to check that the scale has returned to tare zero reading before dumping next charge from measure.

Precautions, hints:

If ever a load acts abnormally, eg doesn’t increase when you add powder, dump it, retare the scales & test with your test weight.

Be careful not to dump powder onto scale balance top. I’ve done it - it’s easy for a kernel to slip past the pan.

Occasionally dump an earlier charge back onto the scales (via your separate container of course). As much as anything, this will reassure you that the scales are accurate & repeatable (or at least mine did).

The negative reading that you see when you take a full pan off the scales can change during the course of a loading session. If you become uncomfortable, tare the scales without a pan, add the pan & tare them again.

Don’t bother to use a trickler. It is a nuisance with powders like N550 which can clump & fall in bunches & besides, when you get practiced with the roseleaf, you’ll be dumping a counted number of kernels on the pan in no time.

Precision with N550 is near enough to 1 milligram most of the time. Precision of AR 2206 is closer to 2 & 2208 would be not much different. Precision is a function of kernel size & weight.

Getting lazy in my old age, so you can edit it for your situation.

John
 
I get loading at the range, and I get weighing to one granule. What I don't get is the idea of taking a scale that is probably very demanding as to its operating environment to the range, and using it to weigh every charge if time is a consideration. Alinwa loads in a shooting house that is a real house. I am not sure where John loads, but somehow doing what he has been kind enough to describe, is such detail, on a shared reloading table, outdoors, with some wind thrown in, seems unlikely. If you are set on using a very sensitive electronic scale at the range, perhaps something on the order of what I have provided a picture of, built to fit an electronic scale,could be built. The picture below it is of a Chargemaster in a case that also has a battery pack. You may recognize the shooter.

Scale%20wind%20box%20002.jpg.jpg

Visalia%2010-18-09%20five%20shot%20unlim.%20006.jpg
 
I have used two cheap electronic reloading scales, both had problems with the zero drifting. As a research chemist, I use several expensive electronic balances daily, and they can also drift over time.
My Ohaus 10-10 balance stays zeroed, but I'd hate to use a gravity balance at work.
Regards, Ron
 
I saw one just the other day in the sinclair catalog. I dont remember the name but its there with the other scales with its own little trickler.
 
This is what I wrote for a friend when he started using portable electronic scales (the same ones I do):

Loading with electronic scales.

Never trust any scales, electronic or balance. Conditions will change their performance. Therefore, make a test weight for every load you use regularly & mark it so you know which is which. I use old .222 projectiles & trim the soft points with a break blade knife until I have the right weight.

I weigh using the milligram scale option, because 1 milligram is pretty close to 1 kernel of N550, meaning I can load to that precision, all else being equal. I can make you more conversion tables if you need them.

Rules:

Only remove the pan from the scales to dump the load. If you take it off during the loading process, you’ll have to start again because you will likely lose some precision. Scales use what’s called a floating tare facility, which allows them to adjust their tare weight as conditions change, but you don’t want that flexibility to be part of your loading.

Always either measure up to a weight (as you’d normally do), or load down from more than you want – don’t mix. If you drop too much on, take it back under before working to your load.

Force the scales to evaluate every addition you make (even one kernel of N550) by “leaning on” the pan after you add powder. Scales have a bit of “fuzziness” in their precision, which can cause them to translate a small change as a tare correction. Gently touching the pan with something like a flexible spill pf paper will cause the mechanism to positively evaluate every addition.

Give the scales time to settle. On occasion, just one extra kernel can set the load virtually half way between a couple of graduations. Eventually, it will make up its mind & settle on the “correct” value.

Keep away from drafts. These are fine scales & can be influenced by zephyrs, but not as much as some, I’ve noticed.

Procedure:

1. Make a powder shovel. I tear a rose leaf shaped piece of paper out of one of those newsagent cheap paper bags & crease it along the centreline right through the point. That stiffens it up ever so slightly & lets me pick up one kernel, 5, a dozen or whatever to toss in the pan – and scoop out some if I overload it. The paper tears with a fuzzy edge that helps picking up powder.

2. Set up powder thrower to toss just under desired load.

3. Set up scales & check with standard weight & test weight. Add pan and tare scales.

4. Check that scale is reading correctly using your test weight.

5. Throw a charge into a separate container (I use a balance pan from my beam scale) & pour it into the scale pan, making sure that you don’t bump the pan or scales.

6. Lean on the pan with your paper roseleaf, wait & read.

7. Add powder with roseleaf, lean & read until correct reading occurs.

8. Remember to check that the scale has returned to tare zero reading before dumping next charge from measure.

Precautions, hints:

If ever a load acts abnormally, eg doesn’t increase when you add powder, dump it, retare the scales & test with your test weight.

Be careful not to dump powder onto scale balance top. I’ve done it - it’s easy for a kernel to slip past the pan.

Occasionally dump an earlier charge back onto the scales (via your separate container of course). As much as anything, this will reassure you that the scales are accurate & repeatable (or at least mine did).

The negative reading that you see when you take a full pan off the scales can change during the course of a loading session. If you become uncomfortable, tare the scales without a pan, add the pan & tare them again.

Don’t bother to use a trickler. It is a nuisance with powders like N550 which can clump & fall in bunches & besides, when you get practiced with the roseleaf, you’ll be dumping a counted number of kernels on the pan in no time.

Precision with N550 is near enough to 1 milligram most of the time. Precision of AR 2206 is closer to 2 & 2208 would be not much different. Precision is a function of kernel size & weight.

Getting lazy in my old age, so you can edit it for your situation.

John

Holey Kronk John....... NICE REPLY!!!

Good On Ya

al
 
You can trickle to a Dillon scale, But you have to touch the scale pan and let it reweigh.
I trickle with a spoon and wooks for me.
Centerfire
 
Thanks guys. Here is an interesting bit of information. I contacted three suppliers of scales, Dillon, Old Will Knot, and ?. ? never got back to me and I can't remember who they were. In any event the other two said that you could not trickle on their scales. "For that you need a beam scale". Guess they all want to avoid a problem. In what little testing I've done with a cheapo unit if you just "touch" the scale as Centerfire suggests it gets going again. And John, as soon as I get my digital scale I plan to put your procedures to work. They make good sense to me. Thanks all.
 
A friend uses a digital scale for short range benchrest, in a manner that does not require trickling, when he is loading at the range. He has a scale that measures to .1 and has modified his powder measure and worked on his technique till most of his charges will come out to the tenth. He has an improvised cover for the scale, that he can read it through, and as he throws a charge, he weighs it, and if it is not correct, he dumps is back in the measure. He throws into a scale pan, and uses a funnel that balances on the case mouths in his loading block, one of those aluminum ones, with the caliber specific brass insert. He does not spend too much time charging his cases, and since his charges are in the mid range for a 6PPC, he does not have a problem from not using a drop tube. What he does is throw charges with a safety net. I worked with him on throwing technique, and he came up with his own baffle modification, for one of the small Harrell measures. For short range benchrest, I think that the level of accuracy that his system produces is plenty good.
 
Get a good scale at a reasonable price and throw your charges in loading room and see how good you are, now take it out in the wind and humidity and temp swings and weigh them out there. You will need a good scale with a wind brake or a closer and you will get an eye opener. I listed a really good scale on an other thread that will work and it has magnetic force registration and is capable of.02…… jim
 
I think main benefit of digital scale is that you can get accurate measurement that you want for your measurement. And also its enough for weighting powder because they are also available with maximum accuracy.
 
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As I only shoot short range BR, my experience is in that game only. I have used Harrell powder measures since Lynwood and Walter brought them on the market. I was at Super Shoot when they introduced them to the world. I bought one after talking at length to them. I have my method for dispensing (throwing) charges. Neil Jones was at that Super Shoot but he didn't have any for sale and the wait was about 3-4 months, as I recall. In these long cold winter days in Michigan I will practice the technique and weigh the charge time after €£\\>}% time. I think and I have found that I am quite adept and accurate with the Harrell. It's either I am good or I have a Hummer Harrell. Oh, and I have checked these thrown charges with a balance beam and with a digital scale. Okay, I am confident that my thrown charges are accurate and I have done my fair share of winning, I might add. With thrown charges and very good notes of what the volume difference is from click to click, I can go up or down as the condition and the target dictates. I am using N133 for the PPC in group and H4198 for the 30BR in score. Also, for the first target I may go to the line with three different weights, test three of each, and choose based on that. I learned these things from another guy up this way who only posts here occasionally.
So now my questions:
Jim1k shoots 1000 yard matches and I'd like to know how many shots you fire at a target and how much time you have to go back and re-load before you must shoot again. Do you preload for the day at home where you have a controlled environment?

Boyd Allen, I'm not sure what matches you shoot and how many shots you fire at a target and how much time you have to re-load before you have to shoot again.

Same question for Alinwa.

I ask these questions for more than one reason. I don't have time to do all that some say they do in order to get accurate loads at most matches except Super Shoot and Nationals where there are more than three relays.
There are those here (there's more than one scale thread going now) that go on about how inaccurate a digital balance may be but then they turn around and sing the praises of the Dillon or the Lyman automatic chargers. Do they not charge and stop based on the commands of a scale similar to the one that earlier was proclaimed to be inaccurate or not accurate enough? It is snowing as I type and it is going to be a long cold day. I am going to go practice throwing charges.
 
Uthink, I pre load as does every one else. If i shoot both guns light 60 rounds will do and Heavy 80 Rds. will get you through the day. You get in all the shoot offs you may not have time to eat and or clean. Light gun 2 matches and the same with heavy……. jim
 
Don't get me wrong, You don't need to load between relays at short range either i won pre loaded in short range so it not a earth shaking thing. I will cut back this year and just have a good time and shoot just the light gun and i will have time for every thing. If you don't win the relay you will have a lot of time on your hands. So what i'm trying to say is, if you win your busy but that is good……. jim
 
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