Possible Rule or Target Change?

C

cadman1275

Guest
Hello,

I have a question or proposition or something along that line.

In the rules under shots on target it states if a pellet hits the line of the square around the circle target either inside or outside the score counts as a Zero. Over the weekend here in San Diego we had a couple shooters that happen to get a shot that landed in the middle between the two squares of the target area. When scored, you can clearly see the pellet hole broke both lines, so right off the bat two targets are scored as a "Zero".

Now I think that sucks if you happen to get a shot like (it happen to me twice). Is it possible to change the rules so both targets ain't zero's or decrease the square to about 1.75" by 1.75"?

Thank you for your time to read and ponder,
Bill
 
Hey Cadman

You should only recieve the zero for one target, not for both. the intention is not to double penalize you for a bad shot. The zero should only be scored for the target in which the pellet is closer to the bull.
 
thank you very much, will pass that along when we have something like that happen again.

Bill
 
target change!?

:)Hi Bill, that was a very good question, i also wanted to know about scoring plugs , and using only the one that is sanctioned. your friend deliterman.
 
No target change in the near future

Once we start routinely shooting 250-25X's then maybe we might need to improve the target:D
 
KingSnake said:
Once we start routinely shooting 250-25X's then maybe we might need to improve the target:D
Click to expand...

Or shoot a longer distance. This is one of my beefs with RF BR. The sophistication of the equipment has made the 50 yd distance nearly obsolete [imo]. The same could be said for 100 yd CF score shooting.
 
What size scoring rings and at what distance are you guys shooting.

There is talk of a world air rifle postal along the lines of the rimfire postal that ran in 2006 & 07

Peter

www.oz-rba.com
 
Not trying to step on anyones toes......

But the target does need some tinkering. The above mentioned issue brought out by Cadman can easily be eliminated by a little more space between boxes.

Another issue that I have noted is the lack of sighters. A target more like the RBA with sighters all the way 'round would be great.

I'm sure that money is an issue, but why saddle ourselves with a second rate target right from the get-go?

I would be willing to take the loss on the targets purchased, heck they would make good practice targets. But please, lets get the thing right and not have an even bigger problem down the road.

Sincerely, John Harris
 
Could we have an unofficial vote, yes or no, on target changes to include more space between boxes and more sighters along sides/bottom? Thanks, John Harris
 
I have run 7 matches both indoor and outside. I have had no complaints with the targets. I even had a person do well with iron sights.(he used a spoting scope between targets to see the next one to shoot) I vote no change.
Paul
Match Director Holbrook Sportsmen"s Club
 
Well heck, if a guy can shoot that target with iron sights, then it is freaking obvious that nothing can be improved on it. So lets keep it and the folks who approached me with constructive criticism can either learn to live with it or go someplace else. John Harris
 
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targets!!

It looks to me that the hole target should be scraped, the bulls aren't even close to what the old BR-50 was . and they had 50 bulls on a sheet!!and what this thing about the targets can only be put up one way...and another thing about useing scoreing plugs,if scoring a .177 hole the scoring plug is .23 is that right?? NO ! i have to get going have a big match coming up this weekend so I have to get my stuff together. hope I get a answer to this stuff huh ? your friend deliterman.
 
deliterman said:
It looks to me that the hole target should be scraped, the bulls aren't even close to what the old BR-50 was . and they had 50 bulls on a sheet!!and what this thing about the targets can only be put up one way...and another thing about useing scoreing plugs,if scoring a .177 hole the scoring plug is .23 is that right?? NO ! i have to get going have a big match coming up this weekend so I have to get my stuff together. hope I get a answer to this stuff huh ? your friend deliterman.
Click to expand...

You're kidding, right? I don't want to go and get all cranked up before finding out if you're kidding, or serious. Now, keep in mind, if you are serious, I won't be back on the computer until at least sometime Wednesday, so don't go looking for my response to your response before then.

Dave
 
Targets !!

:) I'M going to be tied up myself most of this week . but yes i will get back to you about this air gun target thing. deliterman.
 
target change !! @25 yd.

Back again, had to pare this down some but you get the idea . this is just a thought to make this game up to date some.to be fair all holes should be pluged . if the target was hung sideways with the sighters on ether ends as most shooter use there windage knob to go across the target and shoot from one to the other . i think that would be much better than having to go up to the top every time to check with a sighter.that is a waste of time. just one other thing -the X ring needs only to be a pin head dot. 9 ring at 3/8 ,the next at .7/8 and the last at 1 inch. then you could have room for sighters at each end. this is just a thought. something like the old BR-50 target.this had 50 bulls on it and was a tad smaller than this target. how does that sound ?
 
Deliterman,
I think the target works pretty well just the way it is.
All holes do not need to be plugged. Some shots are obviously out, some obviously in, the questionable ones get plugged. That's the way it works in all of the RF organizations I shoot or have shot, and it applies here in AGBR, too. The difference between a .177 hole and a .22 hole makes for more "questionable" shots, that's all. To plug all of the shots would be a "waste of time".

Most shooters I know (and I advise our new shooters to learn this too) shoot a sighter off the paper at each row change. This bullet hole then becomes the sighter for that row.

The AGBR 10 ring is 1/8in, tough enough to hit indoors, let alone outside in the wind. The idea of taking out the 10 ring to score an X is taken from the USBR 50 yard RF target, I believe. As accurate as the high end Unlimited Airguns are shooting, I think it's just about right for this game. The top shooters are already hitting 250's , and the difficulty of scoring an X on the current target will eliminate the necessity of changing the target any time in the near future. Any time a target is changed in an organization, you need to start from scratch as far as records and HOF points are concerned.

The BR50 target was a worst edge score target. I've only seen one or two, and it's been awhile, but aren't those little bull's pretty close to each other? We have UL, Match and Springer guns all shooting on the same target. If we put bullseyes too close together, the less accurate Match and Springer guns might have a hard time not putting an extra hole in a bull they've already shot.

As you can probably tell, my vote would be to keep the target just the way it is:D
Todd
 
deliterman said:
Back again, had to pare this down some but you get the idea . just one other thing -the X ring needs only to be a pin head dot. 9 ring at 3/8 ,the next at .7/8 and the last at 1 inch.
Click to expand...

deliterman,

Just for comparison purposes: I have shot two 250's during AGBR competition thus far, the first a 250-5X and the second a 250-7X, plus another target which scored as a 250-5X during my last pracrice session. The difference being, the target used during that practice session, although being very similar in many ways to both the AGBR and IR 50/50 targets, had a dot rather than a ring for the "X".

Now, let's say our targets were made to have that "pin head" "X" rather than its current "X-ring". And, let's say that because of this change, all a shooters has to do is hit the edge of the "X" in order to score an "X", the same as with IR 50/50, rather than having to totally eliminate all evidence of the ink around the outer edge of the "X-ring" from ever having been there in order to score an "X".

Given this scenario, the target I shot during practice, which by the way scored as a 250-17X when using the IR 50/50 method, would have scored as a 250-5X when converted over to if it had had the ring in place rather than a dot, and when using the AGBR method of scoring.

It doesn't take a brain-surgeon to realize which is tougher the tougher of the two targets, now does it?

And, my friend, if you like the BR-50 target better than the AGBR target, you're welcome to keep using it. In fact, if you like that target so much, you may find the ARA target as a good target for you to use. Although that one only has 25 scoring boxes as well. But, at least they use the "worst edge" scoring method!

Dave
 
Now here is a question for you Dave.
You say you shot a 250-5x on the current target but the IR 50/50 target it would have been a 250-17x. To make it all fair for everyone did you use the $5 step plug on the shots that took out half the center circle or more? If not, I bet if you did that 5x will jump up to at least 10x. That $5 step plug equals everyone to a .22 cal pellet which then enlarges the hole, so basically, you did nothing.

Is this 250-5x shot indoors or outdoors where shooters are suppose to be?
 
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The view from Here.

cadman1275 said:
Now here is a question for you Dave.
You say you shot a 250-5x on the current target but the IR 50/50 target it would have been a 250-17x. To make it all fair for everyone did you use the $5 step plug on the shots that took out half the center circle or more? If not, I bet if you did that 5x will jump up to at least 10x. That $5 step plug equals everyone to a .22 cal pellet which then enlarges the hole, so basically, you did nothing.

Is this 250-5x shot indoors or outdoors where shooters are suppose to be?
Click to expand...

First off, I continue to encourage improvement to the game and look at each persons views and comment concerning the shooting of airguns off the bench. One of the main things I have been trying to accomplish with this sport is to allow as many people as possible to shoot with rifles that they already own or that are easily obtainable from the many fine air rifle dealerships throughout the country. I also have tryed to maintain the rules in as simple of fashion as possible to hopefully keep the game as simple as possible and still allow for a somewhat level playing field in the indivdual classes.

John to answer this question:

Could we have an unofficial vote, yes or no, on target changes to include more space between boxes and more sighters along sides/bottom? Thanks, John Harris

I sent an email to each match director to determine if a majority of the shooters felt we needed to modify the target. The response from the gallery was that at this time a modification was not needed. We may reconsider this again at a later date(2009). So far there have only been a couple times that i needed to clarify the rules or answer questions concerning the scoring of target that have been shot at a match.

Cadman: Your comment

That $5 step plug equals everyone to a .22 cal pellet which then enlarges the hole, so basically, you did nothing.

The step plug does not enlarge the hole but it does center very well in a 0.177cal hole and the dimension above the step measures 0.224 inch. Same as a 22 cal Rig plug. It's very easy to use but I'll be happy provide some simplified instruction of how to use the plug if needed. Provided you don't force the plug through the paper past the shoulder the hole dimension remain unchanged.

As to the you've done nothing comment: Please look at the amount of work that Dave as done in perfecting his rifle and equipment this year. He has done an outstanding job to determining some small problems with his equipment and has continued to improve his score.

One other factor that I believe might need to be re-presented here for those of you that haven't made it to a match yet, but that are interested in Airgun Benchrest. All targets that are shot at a sanctioned match that are range scored and that have potentially tied or surpassed the current certified record targets are sent to AirGunBenchrest for verification. These targets are scored under some very controlled conditions and every target has been verified using the same plug, lighting and setup so that the official record targets are indeed record targets.

If I can be of further assistance don't hesitate to contact me personally.
R. Lewis
 
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