Possible Rule or Target Change?

[cadman1275]

Cadman: Your comment

That $5 step plug equals everyone to a .22 cal pellet which then enlarges the hole, so basically, you did nothing.

The step plug does not enlarge the hole but it does center very well in a 0.177cal hole and the dimension above the step measures 0.224 inch. Same as a 22 cal Rig plug. It's very easy to use but I'll be happy provide some simplified instruction of how to use the plug if needed. Provided you don't force the plug through the paper past the shoulder the hole dimension remain unchanged.

As to the you've done nothing comment: Please look at the amount of work that Dave as done in perfecting his rifle and equipment this year. He has done an outstanding job to determining some small problems with his equipment and has continued to improve his score.

One other factor that I believe might need to be re-presented here for those of you that haven't made it to a match yet, but that are interested in Airgun Benchrest. All targets that are shot at a sanctioned match that are range scored and that have potentially tied or surpassed the current certified record targets are sent to AirGunBenchrest for verification. These targets are scored under some very controlled conditions and every target has been verified using the same plug, lighting and setup so that the official record targets are indeed record targets.

If I can be of further assistance don't hesitate to contact me personally.
R. Lewis

Please look back at what I have said. I have said nothing about his equipment and all his time to get it perfect, in fact, I compliment him on that. Not everyone can sit down or have the patience to do this and he did.

My comment of "you did nothing" is in reference to the 250-17x on the IR 50/50 target vs the current AGBR target using the stepped plug.

You are right the $5 plug does not "technically" make the whole larger by inserting the plug, which i understand, but it scores the hole larger.

Here is what I am saying maybe a little simpler. Over the weekend we had our second match here. We used the $5 step plug to plug shots (not pushing hard enough to make the shoulder punch through, but just enough to have the shoulder rest on the target). When we would "plug" a shot that took out half the 10 ring or so the plug would score it as an X, but as a normal .177 cal hole it is 10. Upon seeing this, I know for me for here on out, I would request each and every shot on the target to be plugged so I can use all of that extra 0.047th of an inch to maximize my 10 and X count.
Basically what is comes down to is, Dave shot a 250-17x on the old target and with the current target he says he shot a 250-5x, if he would have taken advantage of the extra 0.047th of an inch to make everyone equal I bet he would have shot a 250-10x or greater.

When it comes to plugging a shot, it should be fair. If the current plug is for a .22 then all shots on a target should be plugged to make everyone equal across the US, or divide the classes even further to separate the calibers from competing against each other, then you don't have to plug but to plug the close shot for that one caliber.

Bill

 

[deliterman]

targets

Just to ask one more time. is that out standing score of 250 with 17 X"s in doors out out in the wind?? twitchy 5-10 mph? but now i know how this scoring plug thing works now . all cleared up. i have no problens with that.this weedend we had a match and all types of air guns showed up. some that i had never seen befor, and the score"s for the condition were out standing,and this guy Larry Durham,from temacula was the high scorer lets see his high score that day was 247 3X's and his gun a USFT can you believe that. one last question that score of 250 17X's was that in doors!!Oh what kind gun - .177 ?

 

[Joe Friedrich]

I believe Dave was using a comparison to show that it's way more difficult to shoot an X on the AGBR target than the current RBA, IR50/50 or any targets that use a dot for the X count . I have witnessed a gentleman shoot a 250 24x on a IR50/50 target, with his .177 in the morning outside in good conditions using the current step plug to score the target. IMO you need to take out at least 85 per cent of the 10 ring to score an X on the current AGBR target.

Take Care,
Joe

 

[deliterman]

clean target

Joe, that is awsome that you seen this guy shoot a 250 24X's it just blows me away. this has to be in the record books some place.i would like to see that target, and you said that was outside @25 yds huh? .177 gun was this a match gun?back some this guy Mackie Loughlin using Tim McWorters air arm 100 cleaned a BR-50 target. he did have a 40x scope and used those Baracuda pellets.and this was done in texas.Tim ended up selling the gun for $5000 bucks. one other thing is this AGBR target based on the USBR does anyone know. that all folks. happy trails.

 

[Dave Shattuck]

Now here is a question for you Dave.
You say you shot a 250-5x on the current target but the IR 50/50 target it would have been a 250-17x. To make it all fair for everyone did you use the $5 step plug on the shots that took out half the center circle or more? If not, I bet if you did that 5x will jump up to at least 10x. That $5 step plug equals everyone to a .22 cal pellet which then enlarges the hole, so basically, you did nothing.

Is this 250-5x shot indoors or outdoors where shooters are suppose to be?

cadman1275,

Sorry I did not get back to you sooner as I have been off the computer for a few days while babysitting the grand kids. Priorities don't you know.

To answer your questions: yes, both 250's were shot Indoors, the first in competition, and the second during practice, but at a different location. And, yes, both were scored when using the step-plug as that is how things are done with AGBR, so it made no difference as to the scoring of an IR 50/50 similar target. The gun used was a ZM (Zasadny Modified) Theoben MFR in .177 cal with a 36X Leupold scope and using JBS Exact Heavy pellets, and, as said before, fine tuned by yours truly.

Joe is right! The only reason I posted this at all was to show the difficulty factor when shooting an AGBR target vs. an IR 50/50, or any other type of traget that uses a dot for is "X".

Oh, and not to be picky, but by using the plug you only gain .0235, not .047, as the gain per side is only half of what the whole gain would be. Not that it makes any difference here.

And, just for the record, since my original response, and while at another Official AGBR Indoor Match which was shot on October 4th @ Holbrook, MA I scored a 249-7X, 249-6X & 250-7X for an overall Agg of 748-20X when using the same above mention equipment.

Dave

 

[KingSnake]

Target Design and Tim's AA100 Rifle

Joe, that is awsome that you seen this guy shoot a 250 24X's it just blows me away. this has to be in the record books some place.i would like to see that target, and you said that was outside @25 yds huh? .177 gun was this a match gun?back some this guy Mackie Loughlin using Tim McWorters air arm 100 cleaned a BR-50 target. he did have a 40x scope and used those Baracuda pellets.and this was done in texas.Tim ended up selling the gun for $5000 bucks. one other thing is this AGBR target based on the USBR does anyone know. that all folks. happy trails.

deliterman:
To answer your questions:

The Airgun Benchrest target that we are shooting is pretty much my design after taking input from a group of us earlier this year trying to develope a suitable target that we could use for compeition. If you look back at the earlier post on this forum and also in the rimfire formum when we got started you can see some of the other targets that were used to develope this target. the only basis from USBR is the way you score an X by completely shooting out the 10 ring. I choose this method be cause it is harder than just shooting a shot close enough to touch the dot in the center of the 10-ring. I also looked closely at the UKBR target that so many of the guys shoot in Europe.

As for Tim's rifle: It is proudly displayed on the line at every match at Blackbelt Benchrest Club and currently holds the indoor record at 250-10X.
Although I have owned the rifle for several years now and have shot many other rifles, I still think it is the best shooting rifle I have ever seen. I have Tim's old Barracuda's too. Although I have no plans to sell the rifle any time soon. I could be tempted especially with the loss of about 50% of my 401 K these past couple of weeks.

 

[deliterman]

targets

Hi Ron, I think now that you know what your talking about.about that ira its buy low, sell high. my wife has a copy of that gun that Tim made for her njr100. black stock.I think that was in 1993. still shooting great. she just needs more practice now.lol.i think that she did go at last weeks match.it looks like that guy Larry .D can shoot good on any target. anyway Happy Trails.and good shooting.