D
Douglas
Guest
hey bob3700, remember the old "gun and knife" board? thanks, douglas
Bill,
I appreciate your dilemma, how do you police the board and not make enemies.
Two things come to mind. In trying not to offend any one person, you usually offend many others. Doing nothing is the same as doing something.
Your reputation should be that of a fair person who not only gives people a little latitude when necessary, but one who also upholds the rules when a line has been crossed. In my book, that is called integrity, doing the right thing when no one is watching, or doing the right thing when everyone is watching.
If someone is truly your friend and you call them out on something, they should appreciate your position as a moderator, acknowledge that they may have stepped over the line, and let you do your job. If they do not, how much of a friend were they to begin with.
We all have "Shooting Friends" and then there are our "Real Friends".
I have not frequented the rimfire forum all that much, but there certainly seems to be a couple of people who diminish the value of it.
You are the moderator, draw the lines and then enforce them. Adults aren't any different than children, they need boundaries and consequences. If they don't like the consequences then perhaps they are just spoiled children (or bullies) and deserve what they get.
I'm just saying.
Bob
I appreciate your dilemma, how do you police the board and not make enemies.
Two things come to mind. In trying not to offend any one person, you usually offend many others. Doing nothing is the same as doing something.
Your reputation should be that of a fair person who not only gives people a little latitude when necessary, but one who also upholds the rules when a line has been crossed. In my book, that is called integrity, doing the right thing when no one is watching, or doing the right thing when everyone is watching.
If someone is truly your friend and you call them out on something, they should appreciate your position as a moderator, acknowledge that they may have stepped over the line, and let you do your job. If they do not, how much of a friend were they to begin with.
We all have "Shooting Friends" and then there are our "Real Friends".
I have not frequented the rimfire forum all that much, but there certainly seems to be a couple of people who diminish the value of it.
You are the moderator, draw the lines and then enforce them. Adults aren't any different than children, they need boundaries and consequences. If they don't like the consequences then perhaps they are just spoiled children (or bullies) and deserve what they get.
I'm just saying.
Bob
M
martyh
Guest
Pete,I know where the check is and how to capitalize, sometimes stuff just happens. Martin Hammond lol ps sometimes theres a meaning behind misspelling and capital letters.
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Pete:
I had trouble at first getting the spell checker to load, but one day it happened. All went well and it didn't cost anything. The only time I have access to it is when I reply to a post like this. It will be in the upper right hand corner of the reply box. Damn, I must be an excellent speller, it found no mistakes.
I had trouble at first getting the spell checker to load, but one day it happened. All went well and it didn't cost anything. The only time I have access to it is when I reply to a post like this. It will be in the upper right hand corner of the reply box. Damn, I must be an excellent speller, it found no mistakes.
J
jGEE
Guest
I appreciate the moderators letting this thread stay. To get everyone on the same page i think personal attacks should be defined -everyone seems to have different meanings.
to me: Personnel attacks are just that. Downplaying someones direct character or downplaying personal actions is a personal attack.
"Disagreeing" is not a personal attack. If you disagree with a persons idea and "say so" that is not personal -just your thoughts, everyone has that right.
To say something negative about a personal trait of the person is a "personal attack". To dis someone because they shoot or not shoot is personal -they do have the right to choose. No one is going to heaven because they shoot a match...
When someone says they don't think a heavy tuner works -that is not personal, maybe it don't. To 'dis someone because they can't spell is personal. No law says a person has to be a correct speller, anywhere.
If you bash a person personal habits that's a personal attack. If you disagree with someone's thinking that's your God given right.....
Maybe Guns deserve just a bit more reverence -than say potatoes ... i thinks guns are special and deserve a web site just a "cut above".... please just leave off the personal attacks... joe
to me: Personnel attacks are just that. Downplaying someones direct character or downplaying personal actions is a personal attack.
"Disagreeing" is not a personal attack. If you disagree with a persons idea and "say so" that is not personal -just your thoughts, everyone has that right.
To say something negative about a personal trait of the person is a "personal attack". To dis someone because they shoot or not shoot is personal -they do have the right to choose. No one is going to heaven because they shoot a match...
When someone says they don't think a heavy tuner works -that is not personal, maybe it don't. To 'dis someone because they can't spell is personal. No law says a person has to be a correct speller, anywhere.
If you bash a person personal habits that's a personal attack. If you disagree with someone's thinking that's your God given right.....
Maybe Guns deserve just a bit more reverence -than say potatoes ... i thinks guns are special and deserve a web site just a "cut above".... please just leave off the personal attacks... joe
Kent Owens
Well-known member
One thing, I think, the experienced folks owe to new shooters it to challenge bad advice given by the inexperienced. I don't come here to argue, and don't plan on doing it. I did post now and then when I saw something that needed saying. I think it's fine to challenge a shooters record when they post advice to new shooters. I always tell the new guys to check their references.
Those that stir up crap know who they are. If they stop, maybe the rest will follow suit before Wilbur bites the bit and bans them altogether. He is a patient sort, but patience has it's limits.
That said--MERRY CHRISTMAS to all!!!!!!
Those that stir up crap know who they are. If they stop, maybe the rest will follow suit before Wilbur bites the bit and bans them altogether. He is a patient sort, but patience has it's limits.
That said--MERRY CHRISTMAS to all!!!!!!
Bill Wynne
Active member
I appreciate the advice that you have offered. It comes at a good time. Bob3700, Kent, Joe, and Kent you all have wisdom and knowledge to offer. We want to keep this site strong, informative, and enjoyable for the serious shooters.
In farming and on good forums there is always some weeding to be done. I will use the tools that have been given me to weed the rows of this forum as best I can. If I should cut your thread or your post in the future, it is nothing personal. I just thought it was a weed.
Do not plant weeds on this farm.
Merry Christmas all
Concho Bill
Farm Hand
In farming and on good forums there is always some weeding to be done. I will use the tools that have been given me to weed the rows of this forum as best I can. If I should cut your thread or your post in the future, it is nothing personal. I just thought it was a weed.
Do not plant weeds on this farm.
Merry Christmas all
Concho Bill
Farm Hand
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Fred,
I just went to Ispell again and they asked me to buy it. The only way around it I can see there is to enter a license code. ?????
J
jGEE
Guest
Pete if you use the explorer browser
http://www.iespell.com/download.php
you will notice the abc with green check spelling in the upper right corner of the message when you compose a reply.
I use the Firefox browser that is a free download and can be found here:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/products/download.html
There is no spell check in the message window
Using Firefox i get a red squiggly line under misspelled words - just click the word then click the correct spelling from an instant drop down menu...
to add spell check to Firefox Browser for the free download go here:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=united states spell checker
joe
Pete:
If Joe's suggestion doesn't work, try this one. This is a freeware program. Sure they want a donation, but it's not required to use.
http://download.dictionaryboss.com/index.jhtml?spu=true&partner=XQxdm003
If Joe's suggestion doesn't work, try this one. This is a freeware program. Sure they want a donation, but it's not required to use.
http://download.dictionaryboss.com/index.jhtml?spu=true&partner=XQxdm003
I have a suggestion. Go to www.AR15.com. At least read the Conduct Code, but what you should do is join the forum. Watch for a while to see how the forums are moderated, especially the "tech" forums (which is everything outside the General Discussion forum). General Discussion is used for asshattery, and the pit is used for pissing matches and call outs, but the rest of the forum is run clean with thoughtful moderation and serious consideration of the requirements of the Conduct Code. General Discussion is not wide open to anything goes, however, although some topics allowed are distasteful, they don't violate the Conduct Code. The idea is not to censor discussion, but to keep the interaction civil.
There are four levels of moderation in play; the forum moderators, site staff, site senior staff, and the site owners. There may be a couple of weakly moderated forums, but they are rare.
Personal attacks, bashing religion, overt racism or Nazism, insults of a members family, and a handful of other common on line practices are not tolerated, and while it's hard to get banned for infractions, it's not impossible. You'll find that not one of the "terse" threads on this site right now will be tolerated over there. We can lock members temporarily, lock them out of forums where they cause trouble and won't stop, and occasionally ban them outright. Everyone is expected to follow the Conduct Code, no matter their popularity or membership status, and anyone can be disciplined or banned, including life members.
I don't care about your opinion of black rifles, you can do far worse than emulating the moderating process at that site. There's a reason it has so many members, and such a wide range of topics discussed, and that doesn't have anything to do with your perceived choice of firearm (which is wrong if you believe it's only about Evil Black Rifles).
There are four levels of moderation in play; the forum moderators, site staff, site senior staff, and the site owners. There may be a couple of weakly moderated forums, but they are rare.
Personal attacks, bashing religion, overt racism or Nazism, insults of a members family, and a handful of other common on line practices are not tolerated, and while it's hard to get banned for infractions, it's not impossible. You'll find that not one of the "terse" threads on this site right now will be tolerated over there. We can lock members temporarily, lock them out of forums where they cause trouble and won't stop, and occasionally ban them outright. Everyone is expected to follow the Conduct Code, no matter their popularity or membership status, and anyone can be disciplined or banned, including life members.
I don't care about your opinion of black rifles, you can do far worse than emulating the moderating process at that site. There's a reason it has so many members, and such a wide range of topics discussed, and that doesn't have anything to do with your perceived choice of firearm (which is wrong if you believe it's only about Evil Black Rifles).
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H
hulk
Guest
In this season of giving and goodwill to all, perhaps an idea is appropriate.
A charity or other type of organization should be agreed upon. Any post with a personal attack, bash or even a snide remark will require a fixed contribution to the pot. If not paid within some short time frame, the offender is banned for a month.
Yes, this is not perfect, one person's normal conversation is another person's bash, however, the moderators can then moderate. Yes, there will be some who will become the tattletales but this too, will allow the moderators to moderate.
At the end of the year, Benchrest Central gets to make a gift to a worthy cause.
A charity or other type of organization should be agreed upon. Any post with a personal attack, bash or even a snide remark will require a fixed contribution to the pot. If not paid within some short time frame, the offender is banned for a month.
Yes, this is not perfect, one person's normal conversation is another person's bash, however, the moderators can then moderate. Yes, there will be some who will become the tattletales but this too, will allow the moderators to moderate.
At the end of the year, Benchrest Central gets to make a gift to a worthy cause.
Bill Wynne
Active member
I appreciate your thoughtful suggestion. It has merit.
Let me suggest that the best gift for those of us who enjoy this forum is for us who us it to keep it clean, informative, and enjoyable.
We can all contribute to our favorite charities in our own way. It makes me feel good to drop a bill large enough to do some good in a Salvation Army kettle or to give it to a young Marine dressed in his uniform and standing on a corner for toys for tots. There is something about those charities that I like. I think the best way to give is to give without recognition.
Merry Christmas all,
Concho Bill
J
Jeffrey
Guest
Putting a tax on free speech is certainly one method of curtailing disruptive dialog but will that not just allow the more "well to do" to have a field day with their comments. I agree sending the money to a good cause is a reasonable action to rationalise your suggestion.
There is a big difference in saying "your an idiot" as opposed to "why are you acting like an idiot". One is clearly unacceptable. They both make the point. Do both comments get censored?
Sensationalism sells and if you want to attract more readers you look the other way or, as in some forums (not this one), the administrator may join in and make outlandish comments of his own to keep things rolling.
If you have a theory write it down, publish it as a theory, and those who disagree can write an opposing theory. You can't just disagree by saying "no that's wrong and your an idiot", because you are not challenging the information you are challenging the source of the information.
My theory is that you still have the choice of what, and who, you take seriously and the ignorant dialog between certain members will quickly help you with your choice.
I have no clue why I wrote this post other than to support the recognition of a problem.
Jeffrey
HuskerP7M8
Member
Here’s another idea that may or may not work, but it “might” appeal to some of us who have curtailed our posting here. It might also appeal to a “silent minority” who do some very sophisticated testing and have never posted on an internet forum. I think some members here would be very surprised at the number of shooters who fit this description.
Set up a separate sub-forum, similar to what was tried with “Competition Benchrest – ONLY!” Maybe you could call it something like “The Testing Laboratory”
It would be used by both rimfire and centerfire shooters. There are some startling differences between the two but there are also many areas that overlap and in many ways the rimfire community is far behind the work done in centerfire. I think both could benefit.
Allow “only” the posting of detailed testing. It could be any pet theory that you have data for or it could be something as simple as an ammo comparison. You would be allowed to state your conclusions or theory, but not allowed to make remarks or comparisons to opposing existing theories.
If someone disagrees or has gotten differing results with similar testing, they follow the same rules and post their testing results.
I think we’re all smart enough to draw our own conclusions without dissing someone else’s work.
It would probably require some serious moderation, but since everyone knows going in what the ground rules are....the moderators shouldn’t be accused of inappropriate actions. I've been a moderator before and never want to be one again, so I know it's not quite this simple but it might work.
Just some random thoughts and quite possibly unworkable for one reason or another, but I kinda like the possibilities.
Like Jeffrey, I’ve no clue why I wrote this post either, but I’m now braced and ready for the “sticks and stones” to start flying. LOL
Landy
Set up a separate sub-forum, similar to what was tried with “Competition Benchrest – ONLY!” Maybe you could call it something like “The Testing Laboratory”
It would be used by both rimfire and centerfire shooters. There are some startling differences between the two but there are also many areas that overlap and in many ways the rimfire community is far behind the work done in centerfire. I think both could benefit.
Allow “only” the posting of detailed testing. It could be any pet theory that you have data for or it could be something as simple as an ammo comparison. You would be allowed to state your conclusions or theory, but not allowed to make remarks or comparisons to opposing existing theories.
If someone disagrees or has gotten differing results with similar testing, they follow the same rules and post their testing results.
I think we’re all smart enough to draw our own conclusions without dissing someone else’s work.
It would probably require some serious moderation, but since everyone knows going in what the ground rules are....the moderators shouldn’t be accused of inappropriate actions. I've been a moderator before and never want to be one again, so I know it's not quite this simple but it might work.
Just some random thoughts and quite possibly unworkable for one reason or another, but I kinda like the possibilities.
Like Jeffrey, I’ve no clue why I wrote this post either, but I’m now braced and ready for the “sticks and stones” to start flying. LOL
Landy
glynn angle
Member
Husker, darn good idea !!
David Valdina
Member
Over two years ago I posted this (Names removed as the idea can stand on it's own): "I have been stewing about your post for a while and finally decided to share my thoughts with you. I do so as I appreciate the help you have given me and the friendship you have shown me. If you take the time to look at the posts in the thread on getting more participation you will see that my motivation was to include at least one shooter who said he wouldn't go a distance for only 2 matches when he could shoot three, if the rules allowed. So, I asked about a change in rules. In the aftermath, D jumped all over me, personalizing and that just ain't fair. Funny, about the only ones vocal were the folks I shoot with. Anyway, if you don't want a rule change it is fair enough to post that, but to be critical of the proponent isn't nice, or necessary. Ideas should be able to stand or stand down on their own. Now your post comes along. 'City person who wants to change the country, never run a match, short time etc.' I found that untrue and hurtful. It is true only in that I am new to your benchrest and it's rules, but I am not new to shooting, nor running things, nor am I a city boy etc. .... In part your post has helped me decide to attend the egg shoot 9/21/08 and skip the last benchrest shoot. I really don't feel that I am liked at this point by you and D. Maybe next summer when I am back from Florida I will jump back in. Time will tell. A wise man once said, 'People will forget what you said, and people may even forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.'
I also found I drifted more to RimfireCentral, where I found the climate a bit more gentle. This is not the first time I have written on how we treat each other, and it probably won't be the last. And trying to make things better is always worth doing.
I also found I drifted more to RimfireCentral, where I found the climate a bit more gentle. This is not the first time I have written on how we treat each other, and it probably won't be the last. And trying to make things better is always worth doing.
J
jGEE
Guest
FB in my view freedom of speech or expression has not been eroded. You can still call a guy a S O B but as we become more civilized- just the requirements have increased. What we did in 3 words it is now required to do in a paragraph and take 30 min to say it. You are correct the words may not turnoff the one they are aimed at but more than one type of person reads this page.
I think the goal is make this place as respectable to read for as many "types" as possible. The turnoffs that effect a lot of types of people are not being accepted here at BC. May not be nothing wrong with them to you or me but society has us out numbered. Times are changing -resist change and one gets old.... joe
I think the goal is make this place as respectable to read for as many "types" as possible. The turnoffs that effect a lot of types of people are not being accepted here at BC. May not be nothing wrong with them to you or me but society has us out numbered. Times are changing -resist change and one gets old.... joe