Our Sport vs Others

K

KAZ

Guest
The declining number of 22RF BR shooters has just come home to me when I learned that one club will not offer 50-50 matches this season. Reason given was the difficulty of rounding up enough shooters to meet minim (4) shooters. I understand this as I live in a small town (25K people) and I'm the only 50 yd BR shooter so when I became interested(last July) in BR I knew that to compete I would have to travel approx 100 miles one way to several clubs. It has been said that the decline is due to the high cost of our sport. I'm sure that does play a role, but my friends who golf,hunt, bass fish,etc in any serious manner spend as much or more. Being a new comer I admit that I don't know why the decline, but I've seen two things develop that I believe are on the right track. One is Dans PSL that will reward excellence, and investment with real tangible prizes. The second is to run the new "bring your sporter" class matches like Bill ran at the San Angelo club. Shooters shot at a more forgiving target side by side with those of us shooting in Unlimited. It was a good time, and no class snobbery occurred. So, get some different award pins and work to attract these new shooters. Some of them will want to get into the Unlimited thing, and they will find the $$$. Regards
 
local money shoots

it's frustratin times on the local level, to use a full blown benchrest rifle
i'd have to drive about three hours..all the local indoor shoots around here are going to factory guns only, it used to be run what ya brung.
some allow factory target as long as they resemble a huntin gun...some don't allow benchrest stocks, no scopes over 24x, or 32x, sheesh !!!
you got to own three different rifles just to have a litle fun:confused:
went to an indoor money match sat. night, the rules were..factory guns only, no scope limits...so one guy brings a Remington custom shop 40X and took home all the CHEESE....slap a tuner on that thing and it would compete at a PSL shoot.
it's going to be a rocky road for awhile...
one good thing is all those ammo hoarders are going to need a place to shoot it someday:)
 
irony?

Howdy!
The way it is for me, is that with a family, and the economy down, I am too broke to do much. However, I don't intend to be broke forever, at least I hope not. I am trying to learn as much as I can now, so that when I do get the chance to get into competition, I will hopefully have some base of knowledge to work with.

If a guy wants a good rifle bad enough, he can probably swap/sell his way into something to start with. I don't golf, but I hear guys talk about the cost. Just speaking for myself, I would rather have the trigger time. I have swapped/sold my way into a decent rifle or two, and I know I will get stomped into the ground for a while when I get to the point where I can afford to get into competition. But that's ok. I like to shoot, and I like shooters. I also like to learn. I am convinced that you could probably spend a lifetime learning about rimfires, and it is interesting.

Gambler, it seems to me, and maybe I am wrong, that the push for factory rifles is a poor attempt to stop an equipment race. Trouble is, there will ALWAYS be people with more money than others to invest in better equipment. I don't begrudge them, I am happy that they are in a good financial position. But it seems to me that for what that guy with the 40x probably paid for it, he could have bought a good purpose built br gun. I guess there is the irony.

I like the run whatya brung idea. I also like finding stuff that shoots all out of proportion to what it costs. May not work as easily in rimfire competition, but there are deals out there. I have had more fun with Swedish Mausers than you can shake a stick at. Finding someone at a range that is being cocky about how good and expensive his rifle is, and outshooting him with a Swede, all the while being humble about it, is BIG fun. The more humble you are, the more it eats them alive that they got beat with what they think is just an old surplus "clunker".:D Regarding Swedes, if they don't know, they just don't know. NEVER make fun of a guy with a Swedish Mauser!

I have a Remington 37 built by Eric Johnson with one of his barrels. Frankly, it doesn't look too good. I did not buy it for it's looks. It shoots good. Pretty is as pretty does, and it does pretty! Trouble is, I would not be allowed to shoot it in a factory class shoot because of the barrel and the Canjar trigger. I am not really interested in a straight factory gun. I am interested in the most accurate rifle I can come up with.

Isn't benchrest rimfire about ultimate accuracy? If people are only allowed straight factory guns in a competition, are they really get the ultimate accuracy?

Greg
 
A club I visited

runs three classes:

Squirrel (sporter): anything that isn't a match or purpose-built BR rifle. They shoot at a larger target. 5 scoring bulls, one sighter. 25 shots for score at 50 yards.

Match: match rifles and purpose built BR rifles shooting. 25 shots at 25 scoring bulls (IBS style)

Master: anybody who scored 2400 or better over ten matches last season.

That way, there is fun for everyone!
 
"Better to light a candle than to just stand there cussing the dark"

KAZ said:
The declining number of 22RF BR shooters has just come home to me when I learned that one club will not offer 50-50 matches this season. Reason given was the difficulty of rounding up enough shooters to meet minim (4) shooters. I understand this as I live in a small town (25K people) and I'm the only 50 yd BR shooter so when I became interested(last July) in BR I knew that to compete I would have to travel approx 100 miles one way to several clubs. It has been said that the decline is due to the high cost of our sport. I'm sure that does play a role, but my friends who golf,hunt, bass fish,etc in any serious manner spend as much or more. Being a new comer I admit that I don't know why the decline, but I've seen two things develop that I believe are on the right track. One is Dans PSL that will reward excellence, and investment with real tangible prizes. The second is to run the new "bring your sporter" class matches like Bill ran at the San Angelo club. Shooters shot at a more forgiving target side by side with those of us shooting in Unlimited. It was a good time, and no class snobbery occurred. So, get some different award pins and work to attract these new shooters. Some of them will want to get into the Unlimited thing, and they will find the $$$. Regards
Click to expand...

Jim,

Thanks for mentioning our "Factory Class" matches that we are trying out with the blessings of Wilbur.

Wilbur has even come up with a name for this class that is catchy and fresh. FUN-fire is the new name.

This class can be shot at the same time as the regular 50/50 match at a club. Sense both classes can be shot at the same time, the numbers can be added to take care of the minimum number of shooters (4).

Besides our official match held in January, we have had an informal practice match. Everyone brought out their factory jack rabbit rifles and had a blast. This will work and grow the sport.

The scoring rings on the new target are roughly twice the size as the ones on the regular 50/50 target and the scores work out close to the same if the shooter is experienced.

As I write this, a local printer, in my town, has a starter order on his desk for 1,000 FUN-fire targets authorized by Wilbur and ordered by me. These should be ready by next Friday.

The rules for this class are simple. The rifle has to have a factory barreled action. It can have stock modifications or a new stock and any trigger or any scope. The shooter can use any ammo.

I believe that if a shooter with this type of rifle and target is shooting 247 or above consistently they should move up to the regular 50/50 target. After all, the purpose is to get new people shooting in the "big leagues".

If you want to try some of these new targets at your club, E-mail Wilbur and ask for some.

Concho Bill
 
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Factory rules

Would a 540 Rem (single shot) be accpted in this class(factory)?
Thanks....It has a Stith stock ...........
 
earlm said:
Would a 540 Rem (single shot) be accpted in this class(factory)?
Thanks....It has a Stith stock ...........
Click to expand...

Yes.

Any 22 LR with a factory barreled action without a tuner qualifies. We all know that there are some very good factory guns out there and we simply suggest that anyone move up the the regular 50/50 when they are consistently shooting at a very high level. The higher level is where they should be shooting anyway.

There just is no good way to specify certain brands and models not be allowed.

Concho Bill
 
Until then

KAZ:
While you are trying to figure out how to run your own type of matches, come on doen to Dietzvlle and shoot some unlimited ARA matches with us. We just came back from Ennis, and it was only 500 mile round trip, so a few hundred for you is a quick trip. Hope to shoot with you this year. Let me know and I'll send you a schedule. Fred J
 
Thanks Fred, I always enjoy your post. I did manage to shoot one ARA match( a real learning experience with a line of top shooters minus 1) this fall when Dan was kind enough to invite me to Winter. It was great to meet the shooters who came from as far as Arkansas,Louisiana and other points in Texas. I also want to make it to Ennis this year and perhaps down your way as well. As concerns matches in Brownwood it would have to be luring them in with the new Fun Fire and hoping for a migration yield. Who Knows? Regards, Jim
 
Check out The Shop

Jim:

Check to ARA web site, for the Indoor Schedule. The Shop in Ennis has several Indoor Tournaments, in Feb and March. Get chance to meet other area shooters that might be able to help.

Fred J
 
My thoughts on this subject...

Tried to comment on this subject about 2 years ago, as a new shooter to the sport. I got slammed by many for asking my questions and making suggestions and the folks doing so just don't seem to realize that every newby is learning, like they expect you to know and be of one mind. Caused me to get away and shoot iron sight 50 yd BR on RimfireCentral's on line matches. But getting folks into the shooting sports and keeping them there is pretty important to all of us who love our gun rights and enjoy our shooting. So here goes again, but much abbreviated. There needs to be away to be inclusive of as many people as possible. 5 different people own 5 different guns, but one desire to shoot. Find a way to let them, with the rifle they have and want to shoot. There has to be a handicap system to allow that. Restrictive categories, no matter what they are, will exclude some, probably most. Sailboat races take place all of the time with greatly different boats of differing performances. Over time, the committees learn how to handicap them so all are on a pretty equal footing. That is all, but it is a lot. We have a lot of folks who want to win, and seek any competitive edge they can get. That's fine, but let the race be one of shooter skill and not seek to force shooters to buy new rifles or equipment. Shoot what you have, find your relative place with others with similar equipment. Collect results over a trial period of a couple of years, that should generate plenty of data to set categories. You will greatly increase your population of shooters. My two cents worth. Good luck.
 
KAZ said:
The declining number of 22RF BR shooters has just come home to me when I learned that one club will not offer 50-50 matches this season. Reason given was the difficulty of rounding up enough shooters to meet minim (4) shooters. I understand this as I live in a small town (25K people) and I'm the only 50 yd BR shooter so when I became interested(last July) in BR I knew that to compete I would have to travel approx 100 miles one way to several clubs. It has been said that the decline is due to the high cost of our sport. I'm sure that does play a role, but my friends who golf,hunt, bass fish,etc in any serious manner spend as much or more. Being a new comer I admit that I don't know why the decline, but I've seen two things develop that I believe are on the right track. One is Dans PSL that will reward excellence, and investment with real tangible prizes. The second is to run the new "bring your sporter" class matches like Bill ran at the San Angelo club. Shooters shot at a more forgiving target side by side with those of us shooting in Unlimited. It was a good time, and no class snobbery occurred. So, get some different award pins and work to attract these new shooters. Some of them will want to get into the Unlimited thing, and they will find the $$$. Regards
Click to expand...

my dad loves to fish. he jumped all over me about spending what i haveon a hall actioned rifle and a suhl 150. when he got done jumping on me i asked him how much he spent on his boat!! then i asked him how much he spends going from kentucky to texas and alabama just fishing!!!

when i first started thinking about this sport you think about it. the price of a real award winning rifle and say 2 cases of ammo cost way less than a boat and truck to tow it with!!! we don't have to pay for guides on a lake!!! we don't have to buy bait,fuel, and ect!!!!!

$4000 for rifle and $1000-$1500 for a case of ammo that will last a year is sure alot less than other sports.

to new guys a rifle is the highest part. then ammo.

this is not a cheap sport. then again this isn't the highest priced sport either!!!!
 
yesterday bellwood had a service rifle shoot, youngest was 14 oldest in 80's the place was packed multiple relays. these rifles are shot open sights but whats so popular it was from .223 to .308" their were 03's, garands carbines. I have yet to see one of these shoots where parking lots weren't full. less classes open sporter to 8lbs and 10x scopes, make it unlimited only and put a factory rifle class. someone suggested a $500 claiming rule. after all the work I did as I know others do on their rifles I wouldn't sell any of mine for anything. you have to make it easier for shooters. I can't tell you how many posts I've seen where guys were chopping up classic rifles to make 10.5lbs or 7.5 on the sporter, to me that's just not right.
 
I'm going to try to get some interest in the FUN FIRE class that Bill and Wilbur are creating. The simplicity of allowing shooters to "run what they brung" without a page of rules will appeal around here if anything will. The genius is that if some of them start averaging 247 they move on into the standard target/class. Perhaps the timing is right, I see more shooters responding to 22 rimfire so that they can keep shooting due to the the cost/availably issues with center fire. They will buy a Savage/Remington/CZ, stick on an inexpensive scope that will hunt and target shoot. Some of them will improve triggers,stocks, but would be horrified to know that the ammo to win is $11/box. I see no way to acquire the four shooter minimum to qualify a standard target/class match, but I do believe that with the ability to mix in some of the FF class it may be possible. It will be interesting to see what yield we get of shooters migrating to UL. Most shooters are competitive :D
 
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Another key factor in getting people aware of the sport is getting it out to them. Business 101, if the shooters don't know it's there how can they get involved. I like Bill's appoarch and hope it does help bring in new faces. Ironically it could help us who shoot the upper levels of Benchrest. Some of the ranges need $$$ to operate and if they had these entree level classes shooting could help bring in some extra money.

For us here in Texas it's not so much having locations, but it sure would be nice to have a few more attentees. Jim's case in Llano of not getting the attendance and the hassle of trying to round up folks is a example. I only shot there once last year although it's only about 2 hours from my home.
But I primarily shoot ARA and try my best to support the local ARA matches. Deitzville, Boerne, KSS, Waco and get up to Ennis a couple of times and I have a pretty full schedule. e.g. with Llano, a couple of times I was really thinking about going we shot at Deitzville the night before and I wouldn't get home and into bed until 1-2 am. In order to make it to Llano I'd have to get up by 6am to get on the road, the alarm would go off and I'd hit the snooze button and go back to sleep. Point being I'm here to have fun not wear myself out. Simular situation regarding Waco and KSS. They generally shoot the same weekend, Waco in the morning and KSS in the evening, I leave the house at 4AM heading to Waco, get out of there and drive to KSS and we don't get out of there until 11PM. I'm completely worn out by then.

Anyway, I'm all for anything that can help bring more people to the line.

Les
 
Les,

These targets are 14 X 17. The same size and look of the regular 50/50. Like you, I believe that getting enough shooters to compete in our matches is of most importance for any of our shooting sports to succeed.

We can have unofficial shoots all we want but it is hard to beat the organized shoots that are held all around the country to find out how we compare with others. The national organizations such as ARA and 50/50 are the way for me.

Concho Bill
 
I like the idea of the Fun Fire matches being shot alongside the IR50/50 matches. We have 6-10 shooters at our weekend double matches and 4-8 at our evening UL matches, and 16 benches. I can think of several shooters that have stopped by to observe our matches and walked away shaking their heads at the scores we shoot and the cost of the equipment and ammo we use to get those scores.

I think some of those guys would come out to shoot an easier target against other shooters with similar equipment. We've also got an active 4-H Shooting Sports program in our county and the new class might be a good intro to BR shooting for some of the kids, and we all know how important it is to get more young people interested in our game!

Todd
 
Barnyard/Cmp -Benchrest target

Barnyard class:A North American made rifle 22Rf rifle with orginal stock,barrel and trigger.Any type of action allowed.The rifle must retail for 500.00 or less.Glass bedding,trigger job and recrowning is allowed.No barrel tuners.Rifles must weigh 7.5lbs or less with scope,Scope must be 6.5 power max.
CMP Class,Any 22RF target rifle purchased though the CMP or civilian equivalent rifle.Above rules apply,no weight restriction,12 power max.
AMMO;ammo must be American made and have a list price of $7.00 per 50 rounds or less.
Flags:No wind flags
Rest;any style sand bag rest may be used
20 minutes per target
Website;chiefcityshootersclub.com

gun list 010.jpg

gun list 011.jpg
 
I'm all for the Buy American theme in most things, but the rule in your Barnyard Class would seem to be aimed at ANSCHUTZ and hit CZ. I see more 452 rifles than any other as a decent affordable rifle. In Bills test "factory" match for example almost half were CZ. I lean more toward the idea of controlling $$$ by moving shooters forward in class as they score 247 average. Regards
 
With all due respect to Barnyard Class and those who shoot it, while we are both pursuing rimfire benchrest competition, we are moving at different ends of the problem. I truly mean no disrespect to what you are doing and I am sure that I would shoot with you and enjoy it if I lived in your neighborhood.

With Fun-fire we are trying to introduce people who enjoy shooting to serious rimfire benchrest with what they have. We propose to put few restrictions on the new shooter in hopes that they will improve their shooting skills and even tinker with their equipment.

We want people to get good enough that they will move up into the big leagues some day. It will be simple enough because they will be shooting side by side with people who are shooting the harder target. Money spent on a good target scope will not be waisted if they move on to a tougher class and build a better rifle.

Concho Bill
 
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