Obama's books

[Mr. D]

And D, there is only one view to Christianity. Take it or leave it, there's no gray area.

That's exactly what the Taliban would say about Islam! "Take it or leave it, there's no gray area." The major difference between some far right Christians and the Taliban is how far they are willing to go to enforce their religion on other people.

A Super Christian relative of mine once said, "A fanatic is just someone who loves God more than you do!"

 

[Mr. D]

Mr. D. I absolutely believe in freedom of religious thought. I jusg don't have to believe that it is correct. You don't understand what it is to be a Christian. It means you believe what the bible says. You are perfectly free to disagree with the bible, but how, then, can you call yourself a christian if you disagree with the basic tenets of the faith. Jesus himself, said, II am the way, the truth and the life/ He did not say I am A way etc. He said no man comes to the father but through me. Sounds pretty final to me. You may call true christians biased, intolerant or whatever you may. The truth is absolute. I defend your right to be Muslim, Hindu or whatever you choose. You just can't pick and choose what parts of Christianity you want to believe. I feel sorry for Barak's mother, but if you believe in the Bible, you must believe that she was not saved, and is not in heaven. Being a good person is not enough. Pretty harsh words, but I believe my Bible, and I'll not waver from it. Choose whatever pathway you want, I just pray that it will be the right one. Rusty Carr

Rusty,

I respect and defend your religious views. I hope you respect and defend other people's right not to share them!

 

[Mr. D]

What do you care D, you don't believe in religion anyway yet your taking up for a muslim. Change...Change...Change....Yes, we need change but change back to the way this great country was....not more of this liberal BS that has got us where we are at.

Hovis

You are living with the silly myth that things were better in the past! That's only true in Disney movies!

 

[Yote]

That's exactly what the Taliban would say about Islam! "Take it or leave it, there's no gray area." The major difference between some far right Christians and the Taliban is how far they are willing to go to enforce their religion on other people.

A Super Christian relative of mine once said, "A fanatic is just someone who loves God more than you do!"

Well, if believeing what the Bible says makes me a far right fanatic, then......I am what I am.

What I am not, is a murderer of anyone who doesn't believe what I believe in, nor do I push my beliefs down anyones throat, nor do I threaten them with death if they don't accept my beliefs.

You can compare me to the Taliban, but I'm not quite that far along yet.

But I am warming up to the idea.

 

[H."Snuffy"Smith]

I thought we were talking....

politics and specifically Obama. Political discussions and religious dogma intertwined doesn't suit the vein of this "chat" IMHO. As some poster said a bit earlier "Too much booze and too much religion aren't necessarily a good thing". I know what Obama says every day about the economy, Iraq, etc. etc., that's politics. If he says he is a Christian, how can I prove or disprove his statement ? I will NOT attempt to do so ! Now, about Iraq, I believe he is wrong. About taxes, gun control, the economy, again I believe he is wrong. MY religion is in my mind, a very private thing. An evangelist, I am not.

Now, let's get on with the political "chat" in a friendly ?? manner.

 

[Big Al]

Obama claims to be a Christian despite his denial of basic Christian tenets. For example, Obama does not believe that acceptance of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is necessary for salvation. Obama has repeatedly said belief in Jesus is only one of many paths to salvation.

At one campaign stop, Obama said that his mother was in heaven despite her atheism and outright rejection of Christ. While speaking at a town hall forum in North Carolina on March 26, 2008 he said his late mother was “not a believer.” He continued, "But she was the kindest, most decent, generous person that I have ever known," Obama said. "I'm sure she is in heaven, even though she may not have subscribed to everything that I subscribe to."



Big Al, here's the link.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/.../obama-linked_minister_leads_attack_on_dobson

Thank you for the link. Stunned would be putting it mildly. This is the most open distortion of the truth I have ever seen. Freedom of thought and freedom of religion have a few rules, but only if you care to be believed.

What I like about this debate is the different views. One side thinks the Bill of Rights proscribes "Freedom From Religion", One side thinks that you can call yourself anything you want and hide the deceit, and believe whatever you please. And that's just two of the sides. But the one side that scares me the most, know the lies, think the lies are OK, believes we should subscribe to them anyway, because they have a right to try to deceive people.

One of the problems that these different sides have about Christ is the rules. You do understand who's rules these are don't you? They are not the rules that I made up, or any man made up. These are GOD's rules. You don't want to follow the rules, you want to make up your own rules, that's your decision. GOD will not force you to follow his Laws. Anyone that comes along in HIS name and tries to force you to follow GOD is not following GOD's LAW.

People that lie to you about GOD's law, are simply liars. Is there a problem with that, Not for Man, there is a problem for GOD with that. GOD's offer comes by invitation. If it comes by any other way, then it's not GOD's LAW.

The rules of HIS law have been laid down from before Man was. They are unchangeable, if they were changeable, GOD would no longer be GOD. They are the same LAW for everybody. All is by invitation, GOD will not force you to be good, against your will.

How is this LAW of GOD, like the Laws laid down by the Talibond?

 

[Yote]

Snuffy, like it or not, religion is part of the political process of getting elected. It's all part of it. What you are asking is to just talk about certain aspects of politics, but not all of it. And to a presidential nominee, nothing is private. That's just part of it and if a presidential nominee doesn't believe that, he has no business running.

The members of this forum come from all walks of life, and there are things discussed here that I feel shouldn't be also. But I can't tell them what to discuss and what not to. If I told D what he could or couldn't discuss, I'm sure I would here his screams all the way from the west coast.

 

[H."Snuffy"Smith]

I agree....

that a politician's beliefs, his record,his experience, etc. are all open to discussion by the public. That is certainly a valid thought when voting.
I'm talking about MY religious beliefs, I don't expect to state my religious beliefs to this forum....not necessary ! Is Obama's mother in heaven, who am I to know or decide ? He hopes so, I do too. Why in the HELL would he even make this statement ? I don't see that this matters about his thoughts on being president. He DOES talk without saying anything meaningful every day. That was my whole point.

 

[Big Al]

that a politician's beliefs, his record,his experience, etc. are all open to discussion by the public. That is certainly a valid thought when voting.
I'm talking about MY religious beliefs, I don't expect to state my religious beliefs to this forum....not necessary ! Is Obama's mother in heaven, who am I to know or decide ? He hopes so, I do too. Why in the HELL would he even make this statement ? I don't see that this matters about his thoughts on being president. He DOES talk without saying anything meaningful every day. That was my whole point.

Is only your point the only point? Maybe the reason you don't care about others points of view, is that you consider no other point of view is as important as yours?

I have been left wondering how any government that claims to be about freedom, can lie all the time? It seems that these two candidates will be perfect for who ever gets elected.

 

[H."Snuffy"Smith]

No, NO, AL

If I didn't consider and wonder about other views, why would I bother to be here ? I've learned a lot in life by listening to others, and I hope to continue listening. I am NOT so narrow minded as to think that all others are wrong.
As a certified "Old Goat", my outlook has changed a bunch over the years, but I find it very hard to consider Obama as a viable candidate. Frankly, I am very worried about what this country will look like to my grandchaildren, if this is all either party has to offer. And with that, I'll leave this subject.

HMS

Is only your point the only point? Maybe the reason you don't care about others points of view, is that you consider no other point of view is as important as yours?

I have been left wondering how any government that claims to be about freedom, can lie all the time? It seems that these two candidates will be perfect for who ever gets elected.

 

[H."Snuffy"Smith]

Big Al, I edited my earlier...

post to clarify my feelings.

Adieu, HMS

 

[Yote]

Well then Snuffy, on the other areas you mentioned about politics and Obama, I would say I have to agree with you. Bad thing is I don't have a particular love for JM either but I don't feel I have much of a choice.

 

[Mr. D]

Common sense would tell anyone that a bright guy like Obama would not write anti American or anti white commentary is his books. How dumb would a politician have to be to do that???? Double Duh! So just maybe very understandable comments are being taken out of context and distorted by those who do not like Obama just as he is constantly being called a Muslim.

My family doctor is a Muslim and one of the nicest, caring men I know! Should things go badly for Muslims I will stand by his side too, because he is a good man and good American. I believe that is the true American way even if others do not! I was too young to stand up for good Japanese American citizens during WW II, but I will be there if there is a persecution of Muslims while I am alive. I believe in our Constitution even if many of our leaders don't!

 

[Rock63]

From the Snopes.Com review of these quotes it appears that they are not based in facts.

It is most unfortunate that some in America believe that these kinds of distortions are appropriate.

(No I do not blame the author of this thread, I believe that he was sharing information that was presented to him as credible.) Thank you to the forum members for researching the truth on this issue.

 

[Mr. D]

(No I do not blame the author of this thread, I believe that he was sharing information that was presented to him as credible.) Thank you to the forum members for researching the truth on this issue.

Blame is not the issue! The issue is that some want so much to believe the negative about liberals that they don't stop and apply the test of common sense to the Cr@p out there. It shows a biased attitude!

Example: Are you aware of how much commentary there is out there about McCain collaborating with the Vietnamese in making statements and 32 videos against the U.S. and giving classified information about bombing routes while a prisoner. So should it be accepted as fact??? Not in my opinion until clearly proven! If that commentary was about Obama it would be accepted as fact by many on this forum without question.

A very interesting situation exists with Snopes.com that worries me! Although many are aware of the many claims that McCain collaborated with the Vietnamese in making both anti U.S. statements, 32 videos and giving classified bombing route information Snopes does not comment on the issue at all! Why??? If there is no support for the claim why does not Snopes say so??? The only listings about McCain are very positive even though the collaboration issue is common knowledge and found on the internet.

On the positive side, McCain is also said to have turned down early release because he would have jumped ahead of others held by the Vietnamese! Will this all become an issue later in the campaign as it did with Senator Kerry??? What do you think!

Take a look for yourselves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbUUp8tVxIM&feature=related

 

[Phil Deese]

Obama's Speech...........................................

GIVING CHILDREN EVERYTHING THEY NEED

Barack Obama recently made a speech to one of my favorite groups ... the American Federation of Teachers. This is perhaps the most dangerous group in the United States, because it is responsible for the destruction of generation after generation in this country.

But in this speech, Obama says that real change means "finally giving our kids everything they need to have a fighting chance in today's world." Not opening up opportunities or rewarding hard work ... we ought to give our children everything. Entitlement culture. Making children reliant on the government.

And if that isn't bad enough, Obama actually believes that government school teachers are more important than parents. He says, "That begins with recognizing that the single most important factor in determining a child's achievement is not the color of their skin or where they come from; it's not who their parents are or how much money they have. It's who their teacher is." So for all of you who continue to hand your children over to the government to be educated, just remember that their teacher, according to Barack Obama, will have a more profound impact on your child than you will.

 

[Mr. D]

Phil,

Your ability to "spin" another person's words into a completely, negative meaning never intended is wasted on this forum! Send some of your work to Carl Rove and you'll have a new career assassinating people's character!

(Notice that under our new attempt to be civil I used the term "spin" instead of a more obvious word used when you knowingly misinterpret someone's words!)

 

[Phil Deese]

D................................................. .........

Your not one of those union member teachers are you???

 

[Mr. D]

Your not one of those union member teachers are you???

Looking for another label of prejudice to place on someone so you don't have to think? Do you notice I don't take cheap shots at you for being a Marine?

Incidentally the answer to your question is that I did collective bargaining for 1500+ teachers for over 25 years and I'm very proud of it. I've seen poor teachers in my 31 years as a teacher, but the vast majority were hard working people that did their very best while the country blamed them for their children's declining attitudes. Luckily I taught 65% Asian children so I was supported by their parents rather than blamed for our children's values!

 

[Phil Deese]

D................................................. ..........

I never said teachers were bad. If a teachers is good they probably don't need collective bargaining anyway. The problem is unions continue to keep and fight for the worthless teachers that should have been ran off a long time ago. The unions will continue to fleece the government and industry, until they destroy our children and our jobs....they are never satisfied....always looking to the next contract to steal more and more power, money, and benefits!!