T
truck driver
Guest
Does this really help or is it just another gimmick?
jackie schmidt
New member
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C.L. Peterson
Active member
Coated Bullets
Less cleaning is the biggest reason for coated bullets (IMO).
I clean after each agg.
I developed a hand rash from cleaning reagents therefore I started the HbN coated bullets to lessen my exposure to cleaning reagents.
This is the cleanest of the bullet coatings is my reason for choosing HbN.
Molybdenum (Molly) and Danziac are other popular bullet coating agents and each has their following.
I have never used Danziac--Molly is kind of messy/dirty in my opinion but works good.
If I didn't have my hand/skin problem i'm not sure I would use coated bullets??????????????
Coating the bullets is easy but it's just another step (Time consuming) in reloading that has limited value.
Unless you just don't like to clean your rifle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There in lies is greatest value.
I know a shooter that shoots Danzac and only cleans once a day and he is a Hall of Fame Shooter---He has a right shoulder problem and cleaning his gun is painful for him--his shoulder.
Don't bet against him, he is known to smile while collecting his bets.
Coated bullets are not for everyone--For others their helpful but not necessary an improved score or group.
CLP
Less cleaning is the biggest reason for coated bullets (IMO).
I clean after each agg.
I developed a hand rash from cleaning reagents therefore I started the HbN coated bullets to lessen my exposure to cleaning reagents.
This is the cleanest of the bullet coatings is my reason for choosing HbN.
Molybdenum (Molly) and Danziac are other popular bullet coating agents and each has their following.
I have never used Danziac--Molly is kind of messy/dirty in my opinion but works good.
If I didn't have my hand/skin problem i'm not sure I would use coated bullets??????????????
Coating the bullets is easy but it's just another step (Time consuming) in reloading that has limited value.
Unless you just don't like to clean your rifle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There in lies is greatest value.
I know a shooter that shoots Danzac and only cleans once a day and he is a Hall of Fame Shooter---He has a right shoulder problem and cleaning his gun is painful for him--his shoulder.
Don't bet against him, he is known to smile while collecting his bets.
Coated bullets are not for everyone--For others their helpful but not necessary an improved score or group.
CLP
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I have been coating all my projectiles from .17 to.510 since 2009 with HBN
Including the Monos but excluding the lead tips ones, they get all grey messy.
I haven't found any negatives that will put be off using it.
I changed from Moly as I didn't like the corrosion it was promoting in my Hunting riflers in our damp conditions.
Some of my smallest groups have been shot with 125+ down my PPC barrel since it was cleaned.
I'm not a big fan of cleaning the hang out of rifles that I witness at matches.
Mind you I've only been shooting bench for little over a year & around half that with a PPC so I might be way off track with this
Including the Monos but excluding the lead tips ones, they get all grey messy.
I haven't found any negatives that will put be off using it.
I changed from Moly as I didn't like the corrosion it was promoting in my Hunting riflers in our damp conditions.
Some of my smallest groups have been shot with 125+ down my PPC barrel since it was cleaned.
I'm not a big fan of cleaning the hang out of rifles that I witness at matches.
Mind you I've only been shooting bench for little over a year & around half that with a PPC so I might be way off track with this
M
Mozella
Guest
Yes, dry Molly coating is messy, but there is a MUCH better way. Wet coating is the answer........ the only answer really.
Here's how I do it. I have a dual drum Harbor Freight tumbler. I use a Walmart apple sauce jar because it has round ends with a "grip" in the middle which agitates the bullets nicely. I clean my new bullets in Simple Green and rinse with boiling water to remove any factory lube. I dump up to 250 bullets in the jar and add a tiny bit of Molly, less than 1/8 tsp (more on the initial run, about a 1/2 tsp) and add water to just cover the bullets. Then I tumble them for 90 minutes. I save the slurry and strain out the bullets using a sieve. I rinse the bullets under running water. A laundry room utility sink is better than your wife's bathroom sink for this.
Then I dump the bullets onto a metal baking dish lined with paper towels and shake them a bit to get most of the water off. I change to dry paper towels and shake them for two minutes more while heating them with a heat gun. That drives out any water trapped in the hollow point area. The bullets finish up looking like they're black chrome plated, shiny and very smooth. You can't rub the Molly off with your fingers.
The mess all goes down the drain and rinses off your hands and tools; i.e. no dust. A little jar of Molly lasts for many tens of thousands of rounds, perhaps as much as 100,000 rounds. I'm not sure 'cause it lasts seemingly forever.
I'm not sure what it does for my barrel because I Molly coat mostly as a bullet lube for consistent seating. I try to reduce individual case handling and you won't catch me with a Q-tip trying to lube each case neck. The Molly works well as a seating lube and it might also help with barrel fouling. I clean each time I come home and never shoot more than about 70 rounds at F Class matches but I can say I never notice any copper fouling in any of my match rifles.
Interesting method. Clearly more steps than just add moly and tumble.
Do you have concern that the moly "slurry" will enter the bullet cavity through the hollow point and settle unevenly (bullets randomly oriented when removed and dried), throwing off the center of mass of the bullets?
Do you have concern that the moly "slurry" will enter the bullet cavity through the hollow point and settle unevenly (bullets randomly oriented when removed and dried), throwing off the center of mass of the bullets?
martin zuck
Member
Back when moly was all the rage some of the boy's use to tumble their coated bullets in a corncob media. I can't remember who it was but one of our better shooters noticed after tumbling there were tiny pieces of corncob in the nose cavity in a lot of the bullets. Thinking that this was not good he spent quite a while cleaning out the offending bullets. When the smoke had all cleared he came to the conclusion that he had wasted a lot of time.
I've shot coated bullets in everything for probably fifteen years. This includes 3-4000 per year in score matches and a couple thousand prairie dog rounds, all calibers. I used moly briefly, but didn't care for it's reputation of building on itself and attracting moisture. I used nitride boron for part of one season but had difficulty satisfying myself that the coating was even. Also, it was so slick I had trouble picking up bullets. Everything else has been with WS2, sometimes called Danzac. I've never found it to be either a plus or minus for accuracy, but I can go 100-150 shots without cleaning and not lose accuracy. I'm not all that fond of cleaning so it does well for me. I will typically shoot a two yardage score match (110-130 rounds) and clean up the next day. I generally shoot better at 200 yards than 100, so I'm not losing accuracy. I could be mistaken, but I suspect that someone cleaning their barrel every fifteen rounds and me cleaning every 150 might lead to my barrels lasting a bit longer, but I wouldn't argue about it with anyone. Back to BN, I didn't see any difference in accuracy when compared with danzac. Everything seemed to shoot about the same.
YMMV,
Rick
YMMV,
Rick
Okay . . .
Read these HBN posts.
Did some online reading.
Ordered some BN ($22 delivered Amazon).
Tumbled some 6.5mm 142grn. SMK’s in BN.
(Don’t trust them – can’t see the coating.)
Went to the range, shooting old moly coated 155gr.(?) & 140 gr. SMK’s (6.5x55S bench rifle).
"Okay" groups for 100 yard load development with old moly coated bullets - best ~.4”.
Shot five of the BN 142’s - .199”
So . . .
Tumbled 20 more 142 SMK’s. (rotary tumble vs. vibration)
Here’s the issues & some questions:
(Since this stuff has been around for some time, I would think answers are out there.)
- when tumbled, the bullets come out with large white speckles of BN powder stuck to them
- this requires individual hand wiping of each bullet with a clean shop rag to remove the speckles
(rolling them in a cloth does not remove the spots completely or evenly)
- after hand wiping, they look exactly like before treatment
- how do you determine when a bullet has been properly and evenly coated with BN?
- does BN have an affinity for copper similar like moly?
- can the “water method” be used with BN to provide a more even coating and/or eliminate speckles?
If you have "white speckles" you have put too much powder in with your projectiles & or they haven't been in for long enough.
I use a vibrating tumbler, Lyman 1200 IIRC, I coat in a little plastic screw jar with BBs for 2 hours on my auto timer.
The jars are covered in masking tape to protect them, they are years old, I can put three in at a time if required
The tumbler is covered with two or three packing rugs to dampen the noise in my workshop.
A byproduct of this is the tumbler & projectiles get warm, whether this makes a difference or not I don't know.
It only takes a quick roll around in a towel to remove the excess powder.
You can definitely see (dull colour) & feel (slippery) the HBN coating on the projectiles
Some is good . . . More is better?
Thanks guys for sharing this detailed info.
Seem like the only significant difference is that I have likely put WAY too much powder in my tumbler.
I will clean the container and bearings and keep experimenting with the BN.
I have also started to use Mozella's "water" method for Moly coating, and bullets are looking much more evenly coated - much like the moly coating done by Sierra/Tubbs.
Thanks again.
Thanks guys for sharing this detailed info.
Seem like the only significant difference is that I have likely put WAY too much powder in my tumbler.
I will clean the container and bearings and keep experimenting with the BN.
I have also started to use Mozella's "water" method for Moly coating, and bullets are looking much more evenly coated - much like the moly coating done by Sierra/Tubbs.
Thanks again.
J
Jim Pag
Guest
For what it's worth, there is an article by the USAF on bullet coatings. According to that study, none of them reduce friction very much at all. less than u would think. I've used mostly HBN for 4 seasons now and the only thing that I have noticed is that my barrels stay cleaner longer and it requires very little effort to clean them once I've shot a full match. I've never noticed what a lot of people have said that it lowers chamber pressure to where you have to increase your powder charge. I chronograph every time I shoot and only noticed a 15FPS at the most loss in velocity, not enough to warrant an increase in powder. Just Google: USAF bullet coating test. You'll find the link.
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Francis..
if you call it WS2, even a Swahili chemist will understand you! Not saying you are obtuse or anything like that!
if you call it WS2, even a Swahili chemist will understand you! Not saying you are obtuse or anything like that!
Great answer, this is exactly what I find plus cold bore shots are where you aim. I' not only using on bench rifles, but really like on my hunting rifles
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coyotechet
Chet
According to that study, none of them reduce friction very much at all. less than u would think.
But the coating sure does make on thing that it does help with friction and fouling. The pictures below are 68gr flat base bullets shot from a 6ppc 29.2 grs 1Vit. 133. Shot into a 6 ft baffled cardboard box filled with saw dust at 300yds. Myself and a very well known short range benchrest shooter spent a full day shooting and testing coated bullets. We both that year shot our way onto the world team that year both of us shooting coated bullets.
The bullets with the fins are uncoated.
Chet
But the coating sure does make on thing that it does help with friction and fouling. The pictures below are 68gr flat base bullets shot from a 6ppc 29.2 grs 1Vit. 133. Shot into a 6 ft baffled cardboard box filled with saw dust at 300yds. Myself and a very well known short range benchrest shooter spent a full day shooting and testing coated bullets. We both that year shot our way onto the world team that year both of us shooting coated bullets.
The bullets with the fins are uncoated.
Chet
Attachments
R.G. Robinett
"That'll never work."
Interesting.
These pics/results exactly mirror the results/attributes of "moly-plated" bullets, in testing conducted by [the late] Dan Hackett, way back at the beginning of the, "coating" craze - close to 25 years ago already. ;-) RG P.S. I forgot - of course, the "moly-plated' bullets are platinum tinted, or, 'black'. ;-)
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Yo Chet..... ever fired bullets into a snow drift? Seriously, I've never lost a bullet fired into a 2ftX10ft drift of warshin'ton snow.
Pick 'em up in the spring, look like brandy new.....sometimes handy, at least to try.
But a real pita if you want results in, say August
R.G. Robinett
"That'll never work."
DITTO the snow drift recovery method . . . was always amazing how little distance bullets travel through the snow, and how perfect the bullets were. ;-) RGYo Chet..... ever fired bullets into a snow drift? Seriously, I've never lost a bullet fired into a 2ftX10ft drift of warshin'ton snow. Pick 'em up in the spring, look like brandy new.....sometimes handy, at least to try. But a real pita if you want results in, say August
