New to Benchrest, Need Help!

I missed the " no wind flags" part of the initial post. Given this, it won't make much difference what you use....without flags a $5000 custom will shoot like a box stock 10/22 often.
One thing for sure.....the guys that put this togeather are clueless. I don't think I've ever heard of any precision venue that disallows flags, and I cannot imagine why that rule would be put in place. It's plain foolish.
 
Tim: It took me several years to convince a local range to allow wind flags at what they call the "br50" monthly match, which was factory rifles, no flags, no tuners, no custom anything. I finally got them to allow wind flags after much effort. Their reason to not use them? If wind flags were allowed everyone would have to go out and buy some and learn how to use them.

It has been 3 or 4 years now that flags are allowed. Many have in fact gone out, some use my spares and others just watch the flags that are put out by others. Life goes on and everyone remains happy. Before flags it was rare to see a 250 shot. Now the guys are looking at 20+ x's to win. (it is an easy target) bob
 
bob finger said:
Tim: It took me several years to convince a local range to allow wind flags at what they call the "br50" monthly match, which was factory rifles, no flags, no tuners, no custom anything. I finally got them to allow wind flags after much effort. Their reason to not use them? If wind flags were allowed everyone would have to go out and buy some and learn how to use them.

It has been 3 or 4 years now that flags are allowed. Many have in fact gone out, some use my spares and others just watch the flags that are put out by others. Life goes on and everyone remains happy. Before flags it was rare to see a 250 shot. Now the guys are looking at 20+ x's to win. (it is an easy target) bob
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That is the absolute dumbest reason for no flags. Even a few flags beats zero flags. To not use flags basically means everybody shows up, wastes time, and nobody learns squat. Can understand about custom accesories but no flags????
I'd wager if 1000 guys that ever shot a match were interviewed, it would be hard to find 2 that felt you could shoot without flags.
 
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Sewing with Doug

Doug said:
Sorry to say George but the only time I would use a Bi-Pod is in a farmers field shooting ground hogs or other varmints.

Here is how I started BR.
Cowan front Rest - now $240.00 plus shipping.
If you are interested, email Joe at cowanhaus@gmail.com.
Some pictures:
http://team40x.com/member/cowan.html
You would be hard pressed to find better front rest at twice the money. (Ne

I sewed up my front & rear sand bags using old blue jean legs.
I still make my front sand bag.

Or buy a rear bag like the Edgewood for around $130
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/29...ehane-stitch-width-leather-and-nylon-unfilled
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So 240 for a rest and 260 for a sewing machine? Sounds like a plan. :p Just kidding.

I have shot off the bi-pods in a field, a chicken barn, a turkey barn.... and lots of other places, guess it just depends on what your use to. Last trip to Piney Hill netted me 17th out of 57 for both yards and meters. Maybe if I had another 2K in equipment, I may have finished 15th. Maybe if I had better ammo, I may have finished 5th and maybe not. I go to these matches for fun and to shoot with the best in the game, that in turn raises my game.

Doug and Tim, the OP is on a budget of 1000.00, to shoot with a group that is shooting 10.00 ammo with 12X scopes. In other words, matches that anyone could enjoy, not just guys with big bucks or champagne taste and beer pocket books, that do it anyway. To me it sounds like fun, I do it every week, we don't limit the ammo, but there is only one ribbon at the center of the target backer. The idea that is behind limiting parts of the match, is to put everyone on a level playing field. It encourages the people that do not get the practice time, to compete and be competitive and possibly encourage them to to go to the next level.

Did either one of you actually start shooting at sanctioned matches? I shot local matches 3 years before I knew what IR or ARA was. I had never heard of them. I was a little intimidated at my first sanctioned match, 52D Winchester, bi-pods just enough ammo to shoot six cards. When it was over, I got my first 250 pin and did okay overall. Now when I go, I use the same equipment and do not feel out gunned. I am not chasing the A-line or SOTY, just out having fun and learning a little as I go.

George
 
Could care less what venue or club might be the starter. I will tell you, however, I have helped quite a few folks get started. Some stuck with it, some not. Some listened, some not. It was, and is far easier for somebody to start by learning good habits/technique starting out rather than trying to unlearn bad habits or equipment that hurts more than helps.
Far easier and cheaper on the long run.
 
Basic kit

Hi Tim an all.
Back when I started 22 bench in 2006 all we had in the UK was old annies walthers and Brno's.
The first Sporter score of 250 in the UK was shot at our club with an old Brno on a bipod and no back bag.
I had the record in lv 25m for 250 at one time with an old Annie, and I was still shooting with the same action at the World Championships 2011.
We still shoot with factory Sporters and 12 x scopes here in the UK, all though some have gone on to the International scene with rifles that bear no resemblance to Sporter class rifles as originally meant to be.
If fella's have a need to shoot with basic kit then in my opinion they should be given all the encouragement it takes to keep em in the sport, and so long they get to shoot on a level playing field then they can compete and enjoy. That part of the benchrest shooting sports should be treated with the same respect as any other .
You fells have now got Sporters that are up to competing against the best of LV/HV rifles, so what's that all about."Sporter"BAH humbug;).Regards to all John F.
 
I'll confess that I agree with Tim but I can see what is going on in that "no flag" zone. If flags are used it becomes an entirely different game. Hmmmm....I'll need to think about that a bit before I say much more.
 
wicklowman said:
Hi Tim an all.
Back when I started 22 bench in 2006 all we had in the UK was old annies walthers and Brno's.
The first Sporter score of 250 in the UK was shot at our club with an old Brno on a bipod and no back bag.
I had the record in lv 25m for 250 at one time with an old Annie, and I was still shooting with the same action at the World Championships 2011.
We still shoot with factory Sporters and 12 x scopes here in the UK, all though some have gone on to the International scene with rifles that bear no resemblance to Sporter class rifles as originally meant to be.
If fella's have a need to shoot with basic kit then in my opinion they should be given all the encouragement it takes to keep em in the sport, and so long they get to shoot on a level playing field then they can compete and enjoy. That part of the benchrest shooting sports should be treated with the same respect as any other .
You fells have now got Sporters that are up to competing against the best of LV/HV rifles, so what's that all about."Sporter"BAH humbug;).Regards to all John F.
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Bah hmbug ??? The sporter class is the toughest, most fun class ever invented, and not sissy ones with 12X scopes. :D
6X scopes, that's what sporters wear.
Sporters here are shooting some wild scores because we have great componants and guys like Gordon Eck putting their heart and soul into the little guns like never before.
Don't know why you directed your response to me.....anyone should shoot anything that gets them in the game. My gripe would be with some of these backwards thinkers at some clubs that preclude flag use.
I can't imagine anyone arguing against the fact that club, sanctioned, or anything in between, is initially about learning and developing a skill set whether you have aspirations or self improvement.
You shoot blind....no flags, you are unlikely to ever learn much of anything.
Even the guys Bob said he dealt with..... Hell a couple sticks down range with surveyors tape for tails will teach you SOMETHING, for about $3 total cost.
 
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If the club rules preclude wind flags there are other ways to read the conditions. Most important is what air movement to you feel on your face. Other things to check are how wind is moving the grass, tree branches, smoke, mirage, etc. You don't have to shoot blind when no flags are out, just pay attention to what's going on down range. You can and should use these tools even with flags.
Dave
 
burtona said:
If the club rules preclude wind flags there are other ways to read the conditions. Most important is what air movement to you feel on your face. Other things to check are how wind is moving the grass, tree branches, smoke, mirage, etc. You don't have to shoot blind when no flags are out, just pay attention to what's going on down range. You can and should use these tools even with flags.
Dave
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Yeah. I myself used to pay close attention to the little woodland fairy wings when they came out of the woods to sip the morning dew.
 
Well folks it seems we have a real old timey " lawn whisperer".
In other words Bulls..t.
 
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Dave my guess is a lot of shooters did not understand your post?
Over a lot of years I have sat behind a lot of the best & tried to understand how they could pin hole a target in the wind I saw?
Harry was one of the best so I would ask him how!
He looked at the Grass, Trees & then looked at all the flags down the range before he shoot a perfect X!
Yep the grass was important along with some flags & trees at the top of the mountain behind the range.


burtona said:
Maybe you should have been looking at how the wind moved the grass!
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Doug said:
Dave my guess is a lot of shooters did not understand your post?
Over a lot of years I have sat behind a lot of the best & tried to understand how they could pin hole a target in the wind I saw?
Harry was one of the best so I would ask him how!
He looked at the Grass, Trees & then looked at all the flags down the range before he shoot a perfect X!
Yep the grass was important along with some flags & trees at the top of the mountain behind the range.
Click to expand...

No, There was only one who didn't understand.
 
tim said:
Yeah. I myself used to pay close attention to the little woodland fairy wings when they came out of the woods to sip the morning dew.
Click to expand...

I have heard those faries are indigenous to the upstate NY area. So the rest of us, just use the grass, trees, surveyor's tape or whatever else the wind blows.

Tim, we all well understand that good equipment makes for great learning experience and is the best way to learn the sport, to get to the highest level. Not everyone has that same level of interest and therefore are not going to invest a pile of money in equipment. We all want to be as good as we can be, but we have to draw the line someplace. I shoot matches every week, mostly outdoor, mostly after dark. Only thing lite is the bench and the target, so you have to improvise on reading the conditions.

Most of the sanctioned matches I attend are inside, no need for flags. The few outdoor events I go to, there are enough flags already, I actually find them to be a distraction. Maybe if I took the time to study them and understand them, I may invest in a set. In the meantime I will just do it old school. I think if I had started with the best of everything, I most likely would have gotten bored with it by now. The way I do it, keeps it interesting to me. I have the upmost respect for people like you, that go all out to achieve their goals, I on the otherhand, am just as happy to shoot within a few Xs of what won, with the equipment I have.

George
 
Savage Justice
As soon as I read your first message I knew where you where shooting. I have shot there as well. Just a couple of items that where not quite right.
Ammo price is at retail, not wholesale. There were several questions from other replies that need to be corrected. As stated by SJ, 600-60 is a perfect score for 3 rounds of targets(200-20 score per target) No bipods , sand front and rear.
If you continue the enter the comp you will find, there is not a ammo check, scope power check and YOU SCORE our own target. Several of the top shooters use the Kenny Rogers scoring method. When you sign in , try and get lanes B-18,19 or 20 as they are somewhat protected from wind, by the side berm. You will notice that somehow the top shooters seem to get these lanes, just lucky, I guess. Because of the above, I choose not to shoot comp there. I have shot down on the 50 yard range , on Mondays they have a group that shoots unlimited, any rest, scope power and you can use flags, and they do have a person that scores all targets. Just a real fun group that will help you any way that they can.
If you would like my advise , I would have you spend time trying some of the different rests, firearms an different brands of ammo. See what helps you, even with the stock 10/22. You may want to wait a little longer and put your funds into a different rifle, maybe not, who knows. Watch the other shooters, an ask questions.
Good luck on whatever you decide to do.
Sarge
 
Doug said:
Dave my guess is a lot of shooters did not understand your post?
Over a lot of years I have sat behind a lot of the best & tried to understand how they could pin hole a target in the wind I saw?
Harry was one of the best so I would ask him how!
He looked at the Grass, Trees & then looked at all the flags down the range before he shoot a perfect X!
Yep the grass was important along with some flags & trees at the top of the mountain behind the range.
Click to expand...

In other words, it might be helpful in addition to, not a substitute for. Kindly tell captain keyboard I understood perfectly.
 
George Atkins said:
I have heard those faries are indigenous to the upstate NY area. So the rest of us, just use the grass, trees, surveyor's tape or whatever else the wind blows.

Tim, we all well understand that good equipment makes for great learning experience and is the best way to learn the sport, to get to the highest level. Not everyone has that same level of interest and therefore are not going to invest a pile of money in equipment. We all want to be as good as we can be, but we have to draw the line someplace. I shoot matches every week, mostly outdoor, mostly after dark. Only thing lite is the bench and the target, so you have to improvise on reading the conditions.

Most of the sanctioned matches I attend are inside, no need for flags. The few outdoor events I go to, there are enough flags already, I actually find them to be a distraction. Maybe if I took the time to study them and understand them, I may invest in a set. In the meantime I will just do it old school. I think if I had started with the best of everything, I most likely would have gotten bored with it by now. The way I do it, keeps it interesting to me. I have the upmost respect for people like you, that go all out to achieve their goals, I on the otherhand, am just as happy to shoot within a few Xs of what won, with the equipment I have.

George
Click to expand...

I'm sure there is a point in there somewhere. Your interest an approach is yours.......you have fun, who could argue. It should not, however, be used as a primer for improvement.
Bottom line, flags are crucial and without them you're not about to learn much. That's why they probably make all those neat little wind compass/bullet impact aids for shooters. Never saw one with blades of grass.
Anybody that says the can decipher multiple wind directions( a frequent condition) by looking at the blades of grass ???? Give me a break.
 
tim said:
I'm sure there is a point in there somewhere. Your interest an approach is yours.......you have fun, who could argue. It should not, however, be used as a primer for improvement.
Bottom line, flags are crucial and without them you're not about to learn much. That's why they probably make all those neat little wind compass/bullet impact aids for shooters. Never saw one with blades of grass.
Anybody that says the can decipher multiple wind directions( a frequent condition) by looking at the blades of grass ???? Give me a break.
Click to expand...

As usual you miss the point. When for what ever reasons you don't have flags (club rules, you forgot them, etc.) there are other tools you can use to help figure out the conditions.
 
Smoke

burtona said:
As usual you miss the point. When for what ever reasons you don't have flags (club rules, you forgot them, etc.) there are other tools you can use to help figure out the conditions.
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Dave, I remember some years ago we were on the "old range" @ Sparta, NC & you shot back-to-back 250's. Back then that was a remarkable feat. I asked what your secret was & you answered that you watched the smoke from the chimney at the clubhouse. Yep, it was chilly that day & we'd go in to warm up when we had a chance. I expect you stoked the fire then, as well! Best wishes, Glynn (yes, we had wind flags) :)
 
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