New to Benchrest, Need Help!

S

Savage_Justice

Guest
I am mainly a pistol shooter, but wanna get into Benchrest 22. I shot my Ruger 10/22 in competition today, open sight class. It was an eye opening experience, to say the least. There were 25 shooters, 22 bolt action, 3 semi autos. None of the bolt guys had stock guns. Aftermarket Barrels, stocks, etc, looked awesome! However i have no idea what models they were using because none of them were stock. 5 guys today shot 600's, one guy shot a max score of 600- 60x! Impressive! Im very competitive, and when it comes to pistols, I expect to win!! But this is a whole new world to me. My score today was embarrassing, expected, but embarrassing.

I want to be competitive! I want to show up knowing i have a chance to win! I assume by all the bolt action guys that bolt is the way to go? Should i buy a bolt gun (What gun?) or build up my 10/22? I did over hear one guy say people at the comp had from $2000-$7000 in their gun. I dont mind going slow,getting a new gun now, barrel later, stock later....as long as i am heading the right direction. My budget for a rifle only is maybe $1000?

So, what are my options for being competitive? Something up-gradable? All help is appreciated, My goal, eventually is a 600-60x.


Also, some of the Benchrest were AMAZING! I know thats a whole other expense! Ill cross that bridge later! lol

The rules where i shoot:

These matches are a 50 yard course of fire. There are three stages – 15 minute stages of 20 rounds each. The targets will be Mid-Nite and Moon-Lite League targets (four record bulls for 5-round each and one sighter bull).

Rifle Classes are defined as follows:
Light – Any rimfire rifle with any sight weighing 8 1/2 pound or less
Heavy – Any rimfire rifle with any sights weighing 15 pounds or less
Open sights – Any rimfire rifle using open sights can be at any weight
Rules pertaining to light and heavy classes are as follows:
Rimfire includes only .22 calibers. Rifles can be single shot or magazine fed
One front shooting pedestal with a sand type fill bag. One rear support with a sand type filled bag. No return-to-battery support systems or one piece rest.
Rifle scopes are limited to maximum 12 power setting. Spotting scopes are allowed.
No wind flags are allowed
Ammo limited to a wholesale cost of $10.00 per 50 rounds.

I tried to be as detailed as possible to help you help me.
 
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This isn't particularly easy since it sounds like club BR with made up club rules with no consistancy.
A 600 ? Not a target anybody ever heard of. 15 lb guns but 12X scopes? This sounds like something somebody came up with after 15 beers.
That said, It sounds like a decent Anschutz 54, used BR gun, or Cooper TRP would likely start you off.
 
Annie 54 Match would be my first choice followed by a Remington 40X. There was a 40X listed in the past few days that might be good [ Boyd Allen ? ]. 40X rimfires are cheap to upgrade because they have the same architecture as the 700 and 40X Rem centerfires.

Duffy's Guns on Gunbroker has a Match 54 for $595 with one bid on it. Closes tomorrow evening. This gun looks pretty darn nice. The condition of the metal and bluing looks outstanding in the pics. Appears to be a well kept gun.

Killough's Shooting Sports always has used BR rifles but used BR rifles can be pricey.

12X and a spotting scope is nonsense imo but rules is rules. Any club "Benchrest" competition needs an "Unlimited" class that allows unlimited scope magnification and windflags. I applaud the ammo cost limitation as long as there are safeguards against cheating. Speaking of cheating. With a full on BR setup there is no way to have group matches. The vast majority of the groups would be one nice hole about 1/4" in dia.

Don't waste money on your 10/22. Didn't anybody offer to let you shoot their gun after the match? At my club matches we make sure the first timers get a chance to shoot a real BR rifle.

The easiest path to success in any competition is to copy what the winner is doing.

You should also put your location as other site members may be local to you.

Good luck and have fun !
 
It seems from your words that if you can't win, you'll get whatever it takes to win. If that's true, then don't start off on the lower end because there are others just like you. If you show up with something that barely wins, it won't be long before you won't win. A thousand bucks won't buy what you need because you will soon discover other disciplines that require additional accuracy from the get go.

If you're likely to just shoot that club match, and only that club match, then the others have given sound advice. I'm just offering you an additional choice to think about.
 
Wilbur said:
It seems from your words that if you can't win, you'll get whatever it takes to win. If that's true, then don't start off on the lower end because there are others just like you. If you show up with something that barely wins, it won't be long before you won't win. A thousand bucks won't buy what you need because you will soon discover other disciplines that require additional accuracy from the get go.

If you're likely to just shoot that club match, and only that club match, then the others have given sound advice. I'm just offering you an additional choice to think about.
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Well said, Wilbur. I've heard it said that you can't buy a win but you can cheap your way out of one.

Carp
 
crb said:
Annie 54 Match would be my first choice followed by a Remington 40X. There was a 40X listed in the past few days that might be good [ Boyd Allen ? ]. 40X rimfires are cheap to upgrade because they have the same architecture as the 700 and 40X Rem centerfires.

Duffy's Guns on Gunbroker has a Match 54 for $595 with one bid on it. Closes tomorrow evening. This gun looks pretty darn nice. The condition of the metal and bluing looks outstanding in the pics. Appears to be a well kept gun.

Killough's Shooting Sports always has used BR rifles but used BR rifles can be pricey.

12X and a spotting scope is nonsense imo but rules is rules. Any club "Benchrest" competition needs an "Unlimited" class that allows unlimited scope magnification and windflags. I applaud the ammo cost limitation as long as there are safeguards against cheating. Speaking of cheating. With a full on BR setup there is no way to have group matches. The vast majority of the groups would be one nice hole about 1/4" in dia.

Don't waste money on your 10/22. Didn't anybody offer to let you shoot their gun after the match? At my club matches we make sure the first timers get a chance to shoot a real BR rifle.

The easiest path to success in any competition is to copy what the winner is doing.

You should also put your location as other site members may be local to you.

Good luck and have fun !
Click to expand...

Maybe you should shoot my 10/22 and you mite change your minde
Joe
 
Thanks for all the help, after extensive research I'm going to upgrade my 10/22 as much as possible while I hone my skills. Once/if my skills surpass my upgraded 10/22, I'll buy another gun. This is all new to me and I know this way in the long run is more expensive, but I feel this is the best intro to the sport for me.

Thanks again
 
Savage_Justice said:
Thanks for all the help, after extensive research I'm going to upgrade my 10/22 as much as possible while I hone my skills. Once/if my skills surpass my upgraded 10/22, I'll buy another gun. This is all new to me and I know this way in the long run is more expensive, but I feel this is the best intro to the sport for me.

Thanks again
Click to expand...

I think you've made a smart move. Not because your 10/22 is a great choice (it might be... time will tell) but you'll avoid the trap many fall into when first diving into this game. The trap is buying too quickly and then suffering the remorse of that purchase. Take in all of the information that you can from the folks around you and you'll start to see things that make sense to you and how upgrading might work for you. I'd also look into the ARA and IR50/50 schedules to see what matches might be near you. You'll get even more info there if you're really interested in the benchrest game.
 
MaxxPower said:
I think you've made a smart move. Not because your 10/22 is a great choice (it might be... time will tell) but you'll avoid the trap many fall into when first diving into this game. The trap is buying too quickly and then suffering the remorse of that purchase. Take in all of the information that you can from the folks around you and you'll start to see things that make sense to you and how upgrading might work for you. I'd also look into the ARA and IR50/50 schedules to see what matches might be near you. You'll get even more info there if you're really interested in the benchrest game.
Click to expand...

Savage_Justice
This is my first post on this board.....take it for what it is worth. To the point of other posts here, your budget may be a bit low. Depends on how far, or what your expectations are as far as the grand spent goes. I am currently in the 10/22 clone bunch and have a ton of money in a Kidd action, threaded to receiver Benchmark barreled, BR stocked, tricked out 10/22 clone bench rifle.

I understand joechacon's, poster #6, comments as far as a 10/22 based rifle being a viable option. Last I looked, he was ranked #6 in the Texas state rankings for ARA, a state that has a lot of ranked contestants, but there is a disclaimer that must be attached as to the fact that Joe is shooting a 10/22 clone.

Joe spent a good deal of time shooting ARA with a bolt gun. He also has a certain amount of sponsorship from certain vendors who provide 10/22 aftermarket parts. Does this mean I am bashing Joe, no, not at all. I have spent hours on the phone with him and purchased products from his ABRA business and had nothing but good experiences with him or his company. The man can shoot and knows a ton about the 10/22 platform and has the ability to improve on it as far as competition goes. He also has learned about reading conditions using wind flags and knows about lot testing, and proper cleaning methods that insure accuracy. He is a very well rounded bench shooter that can get the best out of the 10/22 platform. Does this apply to new guys in the sport who may not have as much experience as Joe has in shooting BR, most notably a 10/22 clone? IMO, no.

Your thousand dollars are only going to go so far. Try to get the most out of them and most of all, have fun. If your expectations are less than being competitive in ARA, IR50/50, PSL, USBRA....ect, you should have a good time in your budget. If you are expecting more, say, being competitive in your club matches, you need to pony up the budget. Just a novice opinion on the subject.
 
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54 action style Annie like mentioned before cost you less than messing with the 10-22 and all the added on do dads. slap that 12x on top find some $10/box ammo it likes and have at it. With the Annie you will learn more than with the 10-22. particularly about wind and using the front and rear rests. Not knocking the 40x but it takes a bunch of funds to mostly get where the Annie starts. You can figure $1500 on cmp 40x to get to the starting gate. That buys one very nice Annie 54 Match rifle used or about 2/3 of a Cooper ( which will still need some work.)
 
Equipment Makes a Difference

The 1st thing you need to get is a Good/Great Front Rest & Good Rear Bag!
Think at least $500.
Put your money there first !!!!!
It will do great things for your 10/22 results and any future BR Rifle!!
 
Doug said:
The 1st thing you need to get is a Good/Great Front Rest & Good Rear Bag!
Think at least $500.
Put your money there first !!!!!
It will do great things for your 10/22 results and any future BR Rifle!!
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I am not one to scare a new shooter away from this sport, sure all the high end equipment will help, but certainly not necessary to shoot at a local level. On a 1000.00 budget, a 500.00 rest don't leave much for a rifle, however Whittaker's is having a SALE on CZ452 Americans for 329.00

Personally I just use bi-pods and a cheap rear bag, seem to get along just fine with them. Of course you will have to do a little work to shoot it, but much more rewarding, when you do well. I have got a pretty good rest, a Randolph with a Greenlaw top and one of those nice rear bags with the slick material on it, but I do not seem to get any better scores with that setup. As long as the rifle has the potential to shoot well, it boils down to the ammo and the shooter. I have several HB target rifles, most shoot very well for what they are. When they have the right ammo, most will do better than expected. None have tuners, custom barrels or special triggers. Have I ever won a ARA or IR event? No, but I have won a few targets and to my knowledge have never finished last at a major event. So its very doable. JMO

George
 
Under $260 & a Sewing Machine.

Sorry to say George but the only time I would use a Bi-Pod is in a farmers field shooting ground hogs or other varmints.

Here is how I started BR.
Cowan front Rest - now $240.00 plus shipping.
If you are interested, email Joe at cowanhaus@gmail.com.
Some pictures:
http://team40x.com/member/cowan.html
You would be hard pressed to find better front rest at twice the money. (New)

I sewed up my front & rear sand bags using old blue jean legs.
I still make my front sand bag.

Or buy a rear bag like the Edgewood for around $130
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/29...ehane-stitch-width-leather-and-nylon-unfilled
 
The Bipod Boys...

The guys who bring the bipods to Piney Hill are always a threat.

It's not unusual to see a target winner out of that crew over the course of a day.

I know it goes against everything we say and have learned but there they are.
 
Doug said:
Sorry to say George but the only time I would use a Bi-Pod is in a farmers field shooting ground hogs or other varmints.

Here is how I started BR.
Cowan front Rest - now $240.00 plus shipping.
If you are interested, email Joe at cowanhaus@gmail.com.
Some pictures:
http://team40x.com/member/cowan.html
You would be hard pressed to find better front rest at twice the money. (New)

I sewed up my front & rear sand bags using old blue jean legs.
I still make my front sand bag.

Or buy a rear bag like the Edgewood for around $130
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/29...ehane-stitch-width-leather-and-nylon-unfilled
Click to expand...


You probably should look at the Bald Eagle from Grizzly Tool (Bullets.com). They formerly cost quite a bit, but Grizzly bought them and now have almost constant specials between $150 and $199. They are available in iron and aluminum, slingshot and regular feet and windage and standard tops. They are a super buy and apparently selling like hotcakes, based on the number of new local users I have seen this summer.
 
MaxxPower said:
The guys who bring the bipods to Piney Hill are always a threat.

It's not unusual to see a target winner out of that crew over the course of a day.

I know it goes against everything we say and have learned but there they are.
Click to expand...

Not neccessarily. There is no question that that setup can be used very effectively , on occaision, maybe even on most occaisions, however, day in and day out it is not the way to go and shot to shot repeatability will never be he same as a properly set up quality rest.
 
The big problem with a match format like this is that when a bullet takes off you have NO IDEA why. Was it a bad cartridge ? Was it a wind shift ? Was it bad bench form ? Was it a gun problem ?
 
Wind Flags

Club rules say no wind flags ?.
Don't overlook a set of good wind flags . You will be wasting you're time shooting rimfire BR without em.
Ray
 
Rayhill said:
Club rules say no wind flags ?.
Don't overlook a set of good wind flags . You will be wasting you're time shooting rimfire BR without em.
Ray
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What Ray said. And once you have a good set use them all the time, both during practice, every time, as well as at matches!

Dave
 
If the club doesn't allow wind flags, and that's the only place you intend to shoot, you've got two basic choices. You can go cheap and wait for the better rifle to shoot poorly or go with the better rifle and try not to shoot poorly. A little bit of wind will push a rimfire bullet quite a bit. I guess I'll just try to stay out of this one as I don't know what to say without flags. :)
 
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