New Gun Building Advice for .22 BR 50 10/22

D

D2xshooter

Dalek
I have been trying to find someone to build a benchrest 10/22 rifle. I had one guy building me one but he stiffed me for a bunch of money and declared bankruptcy I need a proven builder to get me back into the BR .22 cal sport.
Any thoughts on a reliable referral would be most appreciated. Thanks, Dalek
 
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Dalek - please edit your post to remove the guy that "stiffed" you. Folks can contact you otherwise for that info.
 
Kid

Have you tried KID....Kidd Innovative Design
Here is there website.....www.coolguyguns.com
There in TX.....Phone # (830)557-4411
Tony and his wife Maripat are great people to work with.
Just to let you know Tony Did a total build for me using all KID parts, he also custom swirled my barrel and piller beded the action.....turn around time was a mear 2 weeks.

Mine was not built for BR but his 2 stage triger will go down to 6oz....( 3oz on the first stage and 3oz on the second stage)

Joe
 
I'll have to second the Kidd rifle. There are three in this area, I've shot two, and both shoot awesome. Mine is shooting better and better every time out. I won our Vintage Benchrest match a week ago with a 299-17X on the Barnyard Benchrest target shooting SK Pistol Match Special ammunition.

I wish I could think of an excuse to buy another Kidd.
 
another Kidd

AeroE.....So you have a Kid 10/22? Is it a total Tony Kidd build with the supergrade receiver? What kind of shooting did you have it built for? What is you trigger set at?
Have you tried an Eley or Lapua ammo through it? And if so how well did they shoot?

I want to have work done to a ruger USST-10/22 for my son...the bolt work will be done by CPC, he wants a whistlepig barrel, but the trigger has to be a KID.
 
foosurdaddy said:
AeroE.....So you have a Kid 10/22? Is it a total Tony Kidd build with the supergrade receiver? What kind of shooting did you have it built for? What is you trigger set at?
Have you tried an Eley or Lapua ammo through it? And if so how well did they shoot?

I want to have work done to a ruger USST-10/22 for my son...the bolt work will be done by CPC, he wants a whistlepig barrel, but the trigger has to be a KID.
Click to expand...

The Kidd is 100% Supermatch with the B&C stock. The barrel is 20 inches and the trigger is the 3 ounce/6 ounce unit. I bought this rifle for shooting in Vintage Benchrest matches in the Sporter class. For that use we're restricted to $7 per box ammo, and SK is my preference in this rifle. I've shot a small sample of Eley Match EPS and maybe one or two others, but mostly I've concentrated on learning to shoot the gun with SK. If I tried Lapua I don't remember - most likely not.

This gun turns out tons of five shot groups with 4 in very small holes and one out. Sometimes I can put everything together to shoot 5 in one small group. I have shot one group with four through the same hole and one out a diameter. The other rifle has shot a group with four into a one caliber hole with the fifth scooted over half a bullet. We shoot 50 yards and generally don't use flags.
 
Kid

AeroA.......just a quick pic of my KID....now that I know how to post pics here I will have to take some good pics of this rifle and post them
 

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AeroE said:
This gun turns out tons of five shot groups with 4 in very small holes and one out. Sometimes I can put everything together to shoot 5 in one small group ......

.........and generally don't use flags.
Click to expand...

You will NEVER be able to shoot consistent groups without flags. Reread that about 10 times. You could spend $5,000.00 on the best rifle in the world but unless you use flags you will always have those 'unexplained' flyers.

It's NOT THE RIFLE. It's the wind.

Example. Saturday we had our club's first RF BR match in 10 years. One of the accomplished CF BR shooters came out with a Suhl. He said he had been shooting behind the barn but was getting all kind of vertical that just wasn't showing on this flags. I showed him my 'windrose' that I keep on my bench while shooting a RF. I showed him how the various winds cause the bullet to be deflected both horizontally and vertically due to the effect of the rifling. "WOW" he said, I need one of these windroses. I just happened to have some extras in my truck ;). He then proceeded to fire a couple of 241's which is pretty darn good.

Now here is why 100/200 CF shooters like this guy [ and me a couple of years ago ] have so much trouble coming to grips with the vertical. In CF a 3 o'clock wind moves the wind to the left for sure but the vertical component basically doesn't exist due to the high velocity and the slow twist. So with CF if I have to compensate for a 3 o'clock wind I hold to the right of my normal aiming point.

With a RF you hold right and low as the bullet should hit high and left.

windrosejpg.jpg
 
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Some believe it is the 1st and last round of a magazine that traditionally give a different POI. Try a 10 round magazine and do not include your 1st and last shot in the group.
 
crb said:
You will NEVER be able to shoot consistent groups without flags.
....
Click to expand...

Sir, I understand that quite well. I didn't say I never use a flag, or at least a streamer, but I don't use them every time I shoot, either.

Our Vintage matches are shot without flags. Now, most dedicated benchrest shooters believe that is like hanging a curtain in front of the target, but it's not. However, besides paying attention to the signals in the wind that we can feel or see in the environment, many sighters are required to sort out what is really happening. In the field we need to develop similar skills for shots much past 200 yards, or even 100 yards with some firearms. I'm generally sharp enough to call shots for all the various standard excuses, too.

I'm also familiar with the wind circle you posted.

Last Saturday evening I shot in my first ARA match. I went to the range to work on a rifle (not the Kidd) and the shooters were getting set up so I decided to take a shot at the match (well, really more like around 250 shots). The reason I mention this is even though I didn't have a flag that would show the dead conditions, I'm capable of watching the flags for the benches on both sides and even up wind a few benches. The conditions were so flakey that the flags immediately up wind showed a single condition that caused the bullet to strike in two places. Not too bad if you can figure out which way to hold. The other really weird phenomenon was a quartering condition that the flags indicated came from the left that required a hold off to the right side of the center dot. Now I'm not the most skilled flag reader, but this ain't exactly the first time I've shot with flags and streamers in other disciplines or during load work up, either. But, the prevailing wind had been quartering from the right from about 4 to 6 o'clock all night, and despite the flags, I could generally feel the air movement on my neck, and it told me to hold off right.

Flags are nice. They'll lie to you, too.
 
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barrel

Now that I can add picks I had to add this one....These pic's are from my phone, I need to take some with my camera

2jaap8j.jpg
 
totally custom

joe,
this is one of the most beautiful and innovative rifles I've ever seen. Since this rifle is totally custom are the magazines custom also? Thanks for the pics.
ifldned
 
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I know nothing about Vintage bench rest. But, just from the title, I do not understand how a tricked out 10/22 fits that program. Vintage brings to mind classic 37 Remington and 52 Winchester and maybe an early 54 Anschutz. Can you explain how a tricked out 10/22 fits this format?
Don
 
10/22=tricked out.....BR=custom

Thanks Dave.

I pretty much gave Tony Kidd of KID the right to freelance this build and he did not disappoint.
He even piller bedded the action.
Here is there website check out the Videos....www.coolguyguns.com

As far as the title of this thread....10/22=tricked out but BR=custom
Why is it that when a well known smith like Tony Kidd builds a custom 10/22 people refer to it as just being tricked out. Like it aint worth a s**t. But when a well known or even lesser known smith builds a Benchrest rifle it is called custom. Like it is great in every way?
 
Don Stith said:
I know nothing about Vintage bench rest. But, just from the title, I do not understand how a tricked out 10/22 fits that program. Vintage brings to mind classic 37 Remington and 52 Winchester and maybe an early 54 Anschutz. Can you explain how a tricked out 10/22 fits this format?
Don
Click to expand...

No, I can't explain the reason. There are two classes, Sporter and Target rifle. Sporter is a run what you brung class intended as an entry point and included autoloaders under the perception that they couldn't run with the target rifles. Trouble is, it didn't exclude custom autoloaders, and after the end of last season a mini arms race was held over the winter. Like I said before, I think splitting the class out so soon was a little premature as there are several bolt gun shooters that are dropping one to three points with high x counts.

Here's the thing about the Kidd Supermatch - it's a 100% custom rifle. As near as I can determine the only factory part is the safety selector and maybe the magazine detent and release, and I'm not real sure about the detent. The receivers have an extra lug incorporated at the aft end.

All of the shooters in our group with guns based on Ruger receivers but Clark or Kidd internals and barrels shoot about as well as the full up custom rifles. They shoot well enough to win a match, and that has been demonstrated.

Strangely enough, a rifle such as a Model 37 or Model 52 or Walnut Hill falls into the Target rifle class. Right along side more modern Anschutz or Walther rifles. Flat bottom benchrest forearms are not permitted; the rifles should be a prone or position shooting gun. I used a 1408 running boar rifle last year and fought the roll in the bags all year. Last week I installed a three position stock on the gun in hopes of fixing the roll, but I added some cast off that adds a new problem about as bad as the old stock. One shooter did very well with an original Walnut Hill last summer, so that also set off a scouring of the country side for rifles.

I figured a vintage game with a sporter class ought to limit scope magnification to something we're more likely to find in the woods, but that received a cold, cold reception last winter.

So it comes down to shooting and having some fun while trying to win or place well.

The rules our club uses are here: www.vintagebenchrest.com . Other clubs have different rules.
 
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I have no problem with matches doing what is needed to increase attendance and get shooters involved. Calling it Vintage is what blew my mind.
I got a bad taste on 10/22's years ago. My younger brother thought the Ruger was the finest squirrel rifle invented. Then I challenged him to a match with my $100 home made Tennessee poorboy flintlock. He was too embarrased to carry the Ruger after that.
I am sure that it is possible to do enough custom work to most anything and make it shoot.
Joe
Sorry if I stepped on your toe
 
Don Stith said:
I have no problem with matches doing what is needed to increase attendance and get shooters involved. Calling it Vintage is what blew my mind.
I got a bad taste on 10/22's years ago. My younger brother thought the Ruger was the finest squirrel rifle invented. Then I challenged him to a match with my $100 home made Tennessee poorboy flintlock. He was too embarrased to carry the Ruger after that.
I am sure that it is possible to do enough custom work to most anything and make it shoot.
Joe
Sorry if I stepped on your toe
Click to expand...

Don,

Maybe this will clarify the term "Vintage", It applies to the age of our average shooter not their guns.... :) Bruce
 
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