Need Help With a Tuner

Richard said:
article in Precision Rifleman. Very interesting stuff and I know a lot of time had to be devoted to come up with all of the information.
That being said, it's just hard to wrap my mind around all of that. I will test it for sure and see if it's better than just reading the groups and adjusting the tuner from that.
I just want the simplest method possible.

Richard Brensing
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Richard, I strongly agree with you! I'm convinced that the best way is to read the test group on the sighter and adjust the tuner from that.

I enjoyed Rod Brown's article in the May issue of Precision Rifleman and admire his expertise and professionalism in gathering and presenting the information. But me? :confused: I'm a simple man with simple ways. :p I'm always looking for the simplest, easiest and most reliable way of doing things. When I go to the firing line, I no longer concern myself with temperature, air density, humidity, dew point, barometric pressure or any of the rest of that stuff; I let the rifle worry about all that. All I need is my tuner and sighter target. The rifle will tell me what it wants and when it's happy! :cool:

You gotta' love these tuners; huh?? :D Bringing a rifle into tune with one is as simple as focusing an old 36 power scope. :p

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
So I have been reading through this entire thread, there is a lot of good information here. I currently do not use a tuner, I've only been shooting short range score for a few months, so hopefully you all can set me straight on a few questions.

If I have a good load and good barrel, do I need to re-tune the load after having a tuner installed, more specifically, will threading the barrel for the tuner affect the barrel to the point where my known good load is no longer viable?

Or do I use my current good load, and adjust the tuner to where the rifle shoots best?

I am sure that these questions are answered somewhere in this thread, and I have read posts which allude to them, but I would appreciate having it laid out plainly for me.
 
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Doesn't the current crop of tuner users mostly use a tuner to stay in tune? Back in 2004-2005 when I was using various tuners I was trying to get the best "barrel tune" rather than the best load tune. One of the Texas legends, Corneilson, or Broughten would take a given barrel and shave 0.1" off at a time to bring a barrel into its best natural tune.

To do this I would take a "known" load like 29.2 V133 and a certain jam. use the tuner to improve that load, then with that tuner setting I would retune the load. This was mostly with Fudd type tuners which weigh about 10 oz.


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Dusty Stevens said:
Theres been a million tuner designs. A few work. Youll pull your hair out on one that doesnt. Ive heard of some that if you adjust em 1/8 turn theyll move poi off the paper at 200! Point is if nobody knows who made it it was probably a one off made as an experiment and you may not ever find the maker unfortunately. But you can adjust it like any other tuner and see what you got. They all adjust the same way the difference being effectiveness on target and thats what you gotta find out!
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In the 2005?? IBS Nationals, IBS had allowed tuners as long as they "did not exceed the major outline of a HV barrel". So, Jim Borden and I came up with a tuner that was about 6" long to have enough weight, and that tuner extended off the muzzle about 5". When you dialed that tuner the POI would shift sometimes as much as 1".

My contention has always been that a tuner must weigh about 10 oz to tune a barrel. Problem here was the barrel had to be turned on the OD to about 4.4#.


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josh shrum said:
So I have been reading through this entire thread, there is a lot of good information here. I currently do not use a tuner, I've only been shooting short range score for a few months, so hopefully you all can set me straight on a few questions.

If I have a good load and good barrel, do I need to re-tune the load after having a tuner installed, more specifically, will threading the barrel for the tuner affect the barrel to the point where my known good load is no longer viable?

Or do I use my current good load, and adjust the tuner to where the rifle shoots best?

I am sure that these questions are answered somewhere in this thread, and I have read posts which allude to them, but I would appreciate having it laid out plainly for me.
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Yes, shoot your known good load and adjust the tuner to where it shoots best.
 
josh shrum said:
Thanks!
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I wanted to keep my reply short and to the point. What a tuner can do, is allow you to get the full potential from a given load and rifle, by just barely moving the tuner a small amount. So, yes, there may be gains seen by tweaking the load further, after you get the tuner set. If the load and rifle are great, you'll find a great tuner setting fast. If the load or rifle are not good, you'll still be able to get the best that both have to offer by moving the tuner...but tuners don't fix bad bullets or tomato stakes.
 
Another be-aware on tuners. There are screw-on tuners where the barrel is threaded and clamp-on tuners where the barrel has a straight section turned/\. On the clamp on tuners it is easy to get the clamp to tight and cause accuracy problems. If you use a clamp-on tuner, slug the barrel before and after installing the tuner.

Slugging your barrel is a good learning tool on how consistent the barrel bore diameter finished.

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mwezell said:
I wanted to keep my reply short and to the point. What a tuner can do, is allow you to get the full potential from a given load and rifle, by just barely moving the tuner a small amount. So, yes, there may be gains seen by tweaking the load further, after you get the tuner set. If the load and rifle are great, you'll find a great tuner setting fast. If the load or rifle are not good, you'll still be able to get the best that both have to offer by moving the tuner...but tuners don't fix bad bullets or tomato stakes.
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Mike, this entire 235+ post Thread could be summed up in your post.

Bingo.
 
This thread helped motivate me to give tuners a try, so I had Dave Short put a tuner on my rifle and we tested it earlier this evening.

I used my "go to" load for this rifle and I am pleased with the results that Dave and I got during testing.

Targets were shot in order (starting with number 1), all 3 shot groups at 100 yards:

IMG_1336.JPG

I adjusted in small increments as advised in this thread, and was pleased to find that we were VERY close to in tune from the get go!
 
brcman said:
On clamp on tuners such a s Jackies', how much do this pinch screw get torqued to?
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On the Fudd tuner made by Scott Hamilton, probably one of the earliest successful tuners, the clamp bolts shouldn't be torqued to over 65 in/lb. Slugging a barrel with a clamp on tuner over about 65 in/lb the slug will stop.

When turning the barrel for a clamp on tuner leave a shoulder of about 0.002-0.003" by about 1/16 in length to make a safety collar at the end of the barrel for the tuner on a centerfire. Otherwise the tuner at 65 ft/lb will eventually slip off from the recoil.


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Pretty sure

the tuner being talked about is threaded. You don't need much torque to keep it from turning. Some leave them just snug so you can still turn them with some resistance.

Richard
 
Yes I am talking about a .875 diameter screw on tuner with 6-32 "pinch" bolts to lock it in place, I know what torque specs are for a 6-32 bolt in normal applications but do not want to over tighten them when putting on a tuner. Any thoughts?
 
IF your going

to set it and forget it just tighten it enough so it doesn't turn. If your going to turn it during a match tighten it until it has some friction on the threads but will still turn. It's that simple.

Richard
 
Something to be aware of. Some barrels simply will not tune with or without a tuner.

If your barrel can be brought into competitive tune with powder and jam a light weight tuner can be used to keep it in tune for the day. Tuners under about 5 ounce range can do that. Tuners in the 10 ounce or over range can be used to bring some of the more difficult barrels into competitive tune. Trouble here is a barrel has to be under about 3.6 pounds to use a heavy tuner for LV class.

Again, some barrels simply refuse to shoot!!!!

Ain't benchrest fun!!!


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JerrySharrett said:
Something to be aware of. Some barrels simply will not tune with or without a tuner.

If your barrel can be brought into competitive tune with powder and jam a light weight tuner can be used to keep it in tune for the day. Tuners under about 5 ounce range can do that. Tuners in the 10 ounce or over range can be used to bring some of the more difficult barrels into competitive tune. Trouble here is a barrel has to be under about 3.6 pounds to use a heavy tuner for LV class. Again, some barrels simply refuse to shoot!!!!

Ain't benchrest fun!!!


.
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Yes sir Jerry! Benchrest IS fun! For some of us that is.

As you know, it's not for everyone, but for those of us born with an insatiable fascination with rifle accuracy, it's a never ending journey. We can't fly forever but we can study and pursue rifle accuracy as long as we live; huh?

Keep in touch my friend.

Gene Beggs
 
Hey there Gene!!

What I have decided is there are two types of practice. The first is shooting over the flags and learning what all that entails. The second and what I think is the most important is practicing on how to tune a gun.
I have had so many people out to my range and once they start shooting small they just want to leave the gun as it is and shoot small groups. I believe you need to take the gun out of tune and look at the groups and learn from that. Whatever type of tuner your using you need to learn what the rifle is telling you to adjust tuner wise.
Once you know your tuner and your bbl you ought to be able to twist the thing and never even have to check it on the sighter. Having a tuner that doesn't change the POI is a plus for sure.
The rifle is speaking to you on the target, you just have to learn what it is telling you.
There are times that I will adjust the tuner in the middle of a group because of the way it is printing on the target.
How many times have you seen a screamer backed up by a big one on the next group? Knowing what to change is a part of the learning process that comes with practice.

Yes, BR is fun!!

Richard
 
Richard said:
What I have decided is there are two types of practice. The first is shooting over the flags and learning what all that entails. The second and what I think is the most important is practicing on how to tune a gun.
I have had so many people out to my range and once they start shooting small they just want to leave the gun as it is and shoot small groups. I believe you need to take the gun out of tune and look at the groups and learn from that. Whatever type of tuner your using you need to learn what the rifle is telling you to adjust tuner wise.
Once you know your tuner and your bbl you ought to be able to twist the thing and never even have to check it on the sighter. Having a tuner that doesn't change the POI is a plus for sure.
The rifle is speaking to you on the target, you just have to learn what it is telling you.
There are times that I will adjust the tuner in the middle of a group because of the way it is printing on the target.
How many times have you seen a screamer backed up by a big one on the next group? Knowing what to change is a part of the learning process that comes with practice.

Yes, BR is fun!!

Richard
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Well said Richard. Keep up the good work. You are at the cutting edge of tuner technology and stand ready, willing and able to teach others at your own facility. You can't do better than that.

Relative newcomers to benchrest who are starting off on the right track with your tuner instruction do not realize just how lucky they are. It's been an exciting, interesting project; hasn't it?

Best regards

Gene Beggs
 
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