My problem with the "parallel node"

[martyh]

waterboy, who knows why people do what they do?? take yourself as an example, you don't own one of bill's rifles, so who knows really why you do what you do. when I look at it there's no rhyme or reason but to you there is. waterboy I've read bills post on the self congratulatory forum, maybe you could advise him, instead of he you. "when your in a hole quit digging" his stance on a rifle waiting and a muzzle stopped are plain ridiculous and you know it. marty

 

[jGEE]

............ of those someone posted in an earlier post -there is one that came to power by "SELF CONGRATULATORY"..............

History has proved him to be a false profit.... joe

 

[Lynn]

Marty
Once again your afraid to answer the question,Is Bill using lightweight 4.7 ounce tuners on his rifles or not? If the answer is no your rifles are in proper tune and his are not so simply show up at a match and show everyone your tuning expertise.
You can even send your mouthpiece if your too afraid to do it yourself.You really have nothing to lose at this point because the actual shooters on this forum who attend matches can simply look at Bill's guns on the line and see if the tuners are made out of lightweight balsa wood or not.
The time has come for a little less talk and alot more action on your part.
Waterboy

 

[Dan]

I've posted more frequently this week than in all the years I've been here, but this stuff is great.

I have come to the conclusion that we (including anyone named marty, or some form thereof) have all been stroked and snookered by a gunsmith. I don't think he gives a damn whether it's a parallel node or a lightweight tuner or any other piece that we technical folks can analyze and debate about and wish he would name correctly. I don't think he cares if anything he writes is technically correct, or accepted by general engineering practice. A lot of people will read it anyway. I think he enjoys the fact that we all spend so much time arguing and debating how he describes what he does when he builds a gun. He has us running in circles, all the while the value and prices for his work increase like precious metals. None of what he says, or how we respond to it makes any difference to him. I'll bet he is just fine with the fact that more people today want his stuff. It has become like black magic, and he has us to thank for it.

Fine guns are built by fine gunsmiths, one at a time. They may share some design details that seem to coincide with winning accuracy, but when it comes down to it, it's the guy at the lathe building it.

I've decided it's like pizza. I watch the domino's commercial where they show the source of the best quality stuff that goes into their pizza. That may be true, but it's the guy who decides what small stuff, seasonings and such, and how long stuff like the sauce is cooked, that makes a pizza taste great. They could all use the same stuff, and I still wouldn't eat a domino's pizza. But my sicilian cousin, give him that stuff, and I'll eat anything he makes.

 

[martyh]

Marty
Once again your afraid to answer the question,Is Bill using lightweight 4.7 ounce tuners on his rifles or not? If the answer is no your rifles are in proper tune and his are not so simply show up at a match and show everyone your tuning expertise.
You can even send your mouthpiece if your too afraid to do it yourself.You really have nothing to lose at this point because the actual shooters on this forum who attend matches can simply look at Bill's guns on the line and see if the tuners are made out of lightweight balsa wood or not.
The time has come for a little less talk and alot more action on your part.
Waterboy

waterboy, how is bills rifle shooting for you, that's what matters the most, and what is your vested interest???? who knows why anyone does what they do including you. sooooo how is bills rifle functioning for you. marty

 

[Lynn]

Marty
I have your agg's from the matches you have attended and believe me your rifles are not properly tuned.
I see you still refuse to answer any real questions put to you but I expected nothing more from you.
Do any of the match results look familiar to you?

ARA Fort Hand Pa.

Apr 2010 ---- 6th out of 12 shooters scores 1820.00 1660 1975 1825 agg.5460

May 2010--- 6th out of 8 shooters scores 1058.33 1145 1045 985 agg. 3175

July 2010 11th out of 26 Shooters scores 1832.50 2025 1550 1860 1710 1850 2000 agg. 10995

August 2010 6th out of 12 shooters scores 1833.33 1850 1950 1700 agg. 5500

Sept 2010 12th out of 16 shooters scores 1600.83 1700 1525 1710 1675 1345 1650 agg. 9605


IR 50/50 Unlimited Fairchance Pa. Sept 2010 12 out of 18 shooters agg. 743 37X

Before you do anymore story telling about Bill Calfee and your great tuning you should re-barrel your 10/22 first.
Waterboy

 

[hulk]

Lynn,

"The time has come for a little less talk and alot more action on your part." It would be great if some people would put into practice their own advice.

You have highlighted an excellent point. Some gunsmiths compete in the game, some do not. As soon as Bill starts to compete again on a regular basis, then we can make a fair comparison regarding whose rifles are "properly tuned".

On the subject of not answering questions, who do you think invented the "muzzle device"?

 

[tuna921]

I miss good pizza

I've decided it's like pizza. I watch the domino's commercial where they show the source of the best quality stuff that goes into their pizza. That may be true, but it's the guy who decides what small stuff, seasonings and such, and how long stuff like the sauce is cooked, that makes a pizza taste great. They could all use the same stuff, and I still wouldn't eat a domino's pizza. But my sicilian cousin, give him that stuff, and I'll eat anything he makes.

Damm south ......not a good pizza to be found anywhere , here they have round pizza and square pizza and give you a knife and fork to eat it with.

 

[martyh]

Marty
I have your agg's from the matches you have attended and believe me your rifles are not properly tuned.
I see you still refuse to answer any real questions put to you but I expected nothing more from you.
Do any of the match results look familiar to you?

ARA Fort Hand Pa.

Apr 2010 ---- 6th out of 12 shooters scores 1820.00 1660 1975 1825 agg.5460

May 2010--- 6th out of 8 shooters scores 1058.33 1145 1045 985 agg. 3175

July 2010 11th out of 26 Shooters scores 1832.50 2025 1550 1860 1710 1850 2000 agg. 10995

August 2010 6th out of 12 shooters scores 1833.33 1850 1950 1700 agg. 5500

Sept 2010 12th out of 16 shooters scores 1600.83 1700 1525 1710 1675 1345 1650 agg. 9605


IR 50/50 Unlimited Fairchance Pa. Sept 2010 12 out of 18 shooters agg. 743 37X

Before you do anymore story telling about Bill Calfee and your great tuning you should re-barrel your 10/22 first.
Waterboy

waterboy, you would not of done what I did, shoot a cz sporter on the 2nd card of the pa shoot, shoot 4 rifles at those shoots that were not mine. not one of those rifles shot above 1760 but when i returned them to their owners all had psl targets above 2350 with a couple in the 2400's not one target but multiple. I tune rifles and wether you like what I do and when I do what I do is meaningless to me. how are bills rifles shooting for you. marty

 

[martyh]

waterboy, here's a statistic you can chew on, bills rifles average finish at the ara indoors this past weekend was 35th, look how many rifles built by others averaged higher, are bills rifles not tuned properly to shoot indoors? check the averages out, what's the problem???? could it be that the initial question asked by vibe and all the underlying confusion on wording is what it is and bills rifles are assembled properly just not tuned ........ that's what I think..................marty

 

[Jody]

waterboy, here's a statistic you can chew on, bills rifles average finish at the ara indoors this past weekend was 35th, look how many rifles built by others averaged higher,

What was the average finish of the Martin Hammond rifles?

 

[martyh]

What was the average finish of the Martin Hammond rifles?

Jody, you or anyone else will never know, I don't build guns. can anyone answer why bills rifles finished where they did???? if they are tuned shouldn't they perform in any conditions. statistics don't lie, they are great when anyone likes them but are often ignored when anyone wants them to go away. marty

 

[martyh]

Jody, you do understand the implications of why bill will not admit he's wrong about barrel vibration and tuning? it means everything he has been critical of, stocks, triggers,actions,barrels are not as important as once thought, who suffers if the mystery is taken out of tuning, who is it that wants to promote the wrong terminology and myths. just answer the question that vibe first asked and the puzzle is solved. marty

 

[4Mesh]

Well, by golly, it's a miracle. Someone FINALLY wants to measure this instead of hanging a voodoo doll on the barrel. It is about time...

For those of you who have genuine interest in finding a way to make these measurements, you might consider a ratiometric hall effect sensor (array). Now you will have a cheap alternative with essentially unlimited resolution, and a sample rate as fast as you can make an A-D conversion. It would have it's own design issues to work out, but, no more than the laser system mentioned above. Btw, I quit reading on page 3, so if this has been mentioned later, sorry.

 

[tuna921]

Jody, you do understand the implications of why bill will not admit he's wrong about barrel vibration and tuning? it means everything he has been critical of, stocks, triggers,actions,barrels are not as important as once thought, who suffers if the mystery is taken out of tuning, who is it that wants to promote the wrong terminology and myths. just answer the question that vibe first asked and the puzzle is solved. marty

First off you cannot take results from one match and get any answer. A rifle that finished first might finish at the bottom next time.

As far as tuning goes are you saying a barrel has nothing to do with tuning along with actions (ignition) , bedding ?

If you could take a sub par rifle and make it shoot and win every match I am all for it.


Seems like you have your opinion of what works and thats great. That doesn't mean everyone agrees with you but you keep trying to imply you have it figured out. Like I said before prove it ......

It is up to the shooter to tune a rifle not a gunsmith ....So doesn't matter who built it

While you like to bash Calfee here why don't you just state your opinion and leave it at that. People read and absorb and when you attack others your credibility ceases

 

[tuna921]

Jody, you or anyone else will never know, I don't build guns. can anyone answer why bills rifles finished where they did???? if they are tuned shouldn't they perform in any conditions. statistics don't lie, they are great when anyone likes them but are often ignored when anyone wants them to go away. marty

Like I stated above it's up to a shooter to tune his rifle......I don't shoot a Calfee heavy gun but seeing we are talking ARA
2010 ARA Nationals
1 Tony Harper Turbo Jewell Pippin Shilen Leupold Calfee Eley Match
2 Darrel Barnes Swindlehurst Jewell McMillan Broughton Night Force Barnes Eley Team
3 Dan Killough Suhl Factory Myers Shilen Weaver Gorham Eley
4 Brian Brandt Turbo Jewell TM Broughton Night Force Brock Eley Match
5 Todd Wooten Suhl Factory Peightal Lilja Weaver Myers Eley Tenex
6 Rick Shouse Turbo Jewell McMillian Shilen Leupold Calfee Eley Match
7 Richard Gorham Turbo Jewell TM Shilen Night Force Gorham Eley Match
8 Kirk Gaston Turbo Jewell McMillan Shilen Night Force Gorham Eley Match
9 Tony Boyer Turbo Jewell Scarborough Shilen Leupold Calfee Eley Match
10 Brian Voelker Voelker 40 Jewell McMillan Broughton Leupold Voelker Eley Match
2009
1st Brian Brandt Turbo Jewell McMillen Broughton Night Force Brock Eley
2nd Jon McKinney Turbo Jewell Other Shilen Leupold Gorham Eley
3rd Dustin Allen Turbo Jewell McMillen Shilen Night Force Gorham Eley
4th Bob Barnhart Rem 40X Jewell Factory Benchmark Night Force Davis Lapua
5th Ken Brooks Turbo Jewell McMillen Shilen Leupold Gorham Eley
6th Tony Blosser Turbo Jewell Shehane Lilja Leupold Calfee Eley
7th Dan Killough Turbo Jewell Myers Shilen March Gorham Eley
8th Bob Collins Hall Jewell McMillen Broughton Leupold Smith Eley
9th Mark Meadows Turbo Jewell McMillen Shilen Weaver Calfee Eley
10th Fred Sears Turbo Jewell Myers Benchmark Night Force Myers Eley
2008

Bob Barnhart 40X Jewell Factory Benchmark Nightforce 42X Lapua Davis
2 Joe Besche 54 Anschutz Factory Factory Broughton B&L 55X Eley Brock
3 Darrel Barnes Turbo Jewell TM Shilen Nightforce 12-42X Lapua Gorham
4 Mike Sherrill Turbo Jewell McMillan Shilen Leupold 36X Eley Calfee
5 Richard Gorham Turbo Jewell TM Shilen Leupold 40X Eley Gorham
6 D.J. Hepler Turbo Jewell McMillan Shilen Leupold 36X Eley Calfee
7 Dan Killough 40X Jewell Prine Shilen Weaver 36X Eley Gorham
8 Marvin Batliner 40X Jewell Factory Broughton Sightron 36X Eley Voelker
9 Tom Rippee Turbo Jewell Terry Leonard Lilja March 40X Eley Rippee
10 Glen Townley 40X Jewell McMillan Hart Sightron 36X Eley Hart


PSL at the Barn 2010

1 Garry Cox Hall Broughton Jewell Lee Six Leupold Barnes
2 Fred Leeds Turbo Shilen Jewell Meyers Leupold Gorham
3 Brian Brandt Turbo Broughton Jewell McMillian Night Force Brock
4 Wendell Dean Turbo Lilja Jewell McMillian Weaver Calfee
5 Darin Roush Rem 40X Lilja Kelbly Meridith Night Force Taylor
6 Todd Wooten Suhl Broughton Factory Peightal Weaver Myers
7 Tim Miller Turbo Shilen Jewell McMillian Leupold Calfee
8 Wilton Burnett Turbo Benchmark Jewell McMillan Leupold Myers
9 Craig Young Turbo Shilen Jewell McMillian Leupold Calfee
10 Dennis Drake Anshutz Benchmark Factory McMillian Leupold Myers
11 Tony Harper Turbo Shilen Jewell Shehane Leupold Calfee



Guess he can't build a good rifle

 

[Beau]

Jody, you or anyone else will never know, I don't build guns. can anyone answer why bills rifles finished where they did???? marty

Sure, because when you don't cherry pick the numbers, it tells a different story. You used average, when you should use medians but you probably don't know any better, so we'll go with averages. Calfee guns numbered 16, averaged 35th place, had 20% of the top 10, 25% of the top 20, and 22.5% of the top 40. Smith guns averaged 29th place and had 10.00% 10.00% 5.00% in the top 10, 20, and 40 respectively. Eck guns averaged 45th place and had 10.00% 5.00% 10.00% in the top 10,20, and 40 respectively. Gorham guns averaged 29th place with 10.00% 20.00% 15.00% in the top 10, 20, and 40 respectively. Myers guns averaged 44th place with 10.00% 5.00% 10.00% in the top 10, 20 and 40 respectively. Davis guns averaged 52nd place with no guns in the top 10, 20, or 40. Finally Putzbach guns averaged 42nd place 5.00% in the top 20 2.50% in the top 40. These include only gunsmiths with three or more guns in the running. Five would probably be better but 1 or 2 would be of no use at all. But as you see, there is not that great of a separation and the top 10, 20, and 40 seem to lean one way. Calfee guns numbered the greatest with 16, so your next argument will be the sheer numbers put his guns in the top 40, but remember that works both ways.

 

[martyh]

make sure I have this right. bill doesn't make a trigger, he doesn't make a stock, he doesn't bed a stock, he doesn't make an action, he doesn't make a barrel, he doesn't make a tuner, he doesn't shoot the rifle he just whacks the barrel with a hammer puts it on and takes all the credit. next you guys will bring in the scientist from phillip morris to bolster his claim about a stopped muzzle.

 

[Beau]

Lost another point so bash Calfee a little to get attention off yourself. Who makes the best car? You know the one that makes all its own parts now, nobody else.

 

[Vibe]

Well, by golly, it's a miracle. Someone FINALLY wants to measure this instead of hanging a voodoo doll on the barrel. It is about time...

For those of you who have genuine interest in finding a way to make these measurements, you might consider a ratiometric hall effect sensor (array). Now you will have a cheap alternative with essentially unlimited resolution, and a sample rate as fast as you can make an A-D conversion. It would have it's own design issues to work out, but, no more than the laser system mentioned above. Btw, I quit reading on page 3, so if this has been mentioned later, sorry.

Got a link to those devices? I'd even think that doing it all analog wouldn't be extremely detrimental. Route the output through a program like Audacity as a .wav file and look at the traces in an in-sync multi channel display.