S
sharpshooter
Guest
I know it was discussed about a year ago, but was the rule changed to allow muzzle brakes in heavy class as long as they are on a gun that qualified as light gun?
B
BMF
Guest
Not in the IBS 600yd game. We are keeping our original format as far as gun class and the round count in each class. Muzzle brakes maybe a consideration. We are not trying to follow,change, become or adapt to any other long range discipline.
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BountyHunter
New member
that is a proposed agenda item for the Winter meeting this year, which will be Jan 2010.
The agenda item needs 25 signatures on it and sent to the LR committee by 1 July.
I have the proposed agenda items that I started last year and will load them into PDF files and post them here soon.
all anyone needs to do is print them, take to matches, get as many signatures as possible and then send the proposals with signature sheets to Lee Fisher, head of the LR committee before 1 July.
Note that you do not have to have 25 signatures on your sheet. The purpose of making them PDF is to keep exactly the same language across the board. We need only 25 signatures total from all the sheets.
If the agenda items come in with 25 signatures total, they are required to be voted on by the membership attending the winter meeting. In the past there had been attempts to prevent agenda items coming to a vote that people did not like. That is against the rules.
It is common and appropriate for the committee and IBS Eexecutive Board to add their recommendation to the item when announcing the meeting agenda. However, by the IBS bylaws the agenda item is required to be voted on.
Now if you feel strongly about an item, you need to attend the meeting to vote and bring one proxy vote from someone else with you. Each attending member can have one proxy vote from another IBS member.
that raises a major issue that the 15-20 members that attend the winter meeting for each discipline in actuality decide what is approved for literally hundreds of members. We need a better way to allow the larger membership to vote on proposed agenda items.
How about holding a vote at the national championships for each discipline? They would vote there on only discipline specific agenda items.
BH
The agenda item needs 25 signatures on it and sent to the LR committee by 1 July.
I have the proposed agenda items that I started last year and will load them into PDF files and post them here soon.
all anyone needs to do is print them, take to matches, get as many signatures as possible and then send the proposals with signature sheets to Lee Fisher, head of the LR committee before 1 July.
Note that you do not have to have 25 signatures on your sheet. The purpose of making them PDF is to keep exactly the same language across the board. We need only 25 signatures total from all the sheets.
If the agenda items come in with 25 signatures total, they are required to be voted on by the membership attending the winter meeting. In the past there had been attempts to prevent agenda items coming to a vote that people did not like. That is against the rules.
It is common and appropriate for the committee and IBS Eexecutive Board to add their recommendation to the item when announcing the meeting agenda. However, by the IBS bylaws the agenda item is required to be voted on.
Now if you feel strongly about an item, you need to attend the meeting to vote and bring one proxy vote from someone else with you. Each attending member can have one proxy vote from another IBS member.
that raises a major issue that the 15-20 members that attend the winter meeting for each discipline in actuality decide what is approved for literally hundreds of members. We need a better way to allow the larger membership to vote on proposed agenda items.
How about holding a vote at the national championships for each discipline? They would vote there on only discipline specific agenda items.
BH
O
oneflyer
Guest
Herman- The voting procedures are horrible!!! That should be one of the agenda items.
B
BMF
Guest
Herman,
I agree with you about the voting system. I suggested an idea about this not to long ago. I found out that there is a person working on this same idea. It would allow you to visit the web sight and look over the agenda items and then vote on them from your computer, if you couldn't make the meeting. How you vote and they know it was you, you would be assigned a IBS number and that number along with a password that only you know will allow you to access the voting part of the web and vote. It's going to take a while I'm sure to get this up and running. So in the mean time everyone needs to attend the meetings to get there agenda passed. As far as holding votes at Nationals, That's basically the same thing as the winter meeting but with a few more members voting for the hundreds. Question? what's the fee's at Quantico this year to shoot as a none member?
I agree with you about the voting system. I suggested an idea about this not to long ago. I found out that there is a person working on this same idea. It would allow you to visit the web sight and look over the agenda items and then vote on them from your computer, if you couldn't make the meeting. How you vote and they know it was you, you would be assigned a IBS number and that number along with a password that only you know will allow you to access the voting part of the web and vote. It's going to take a while I'm sure to get this up and running. So in the mean time everyone needs to attend the meetings to get there agenda passed. As far as holding votes at Nationals, That's basically the same thing as the winter meeting but with a few more members voting for the hundreds. Question? what's the fee's at Quantico this year to shoot as a none member?
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D
Danny Brooks
Guest
Brian,
As a non club memeber, I believe it is $25 per gun, $20 for club members.
Danny
As a non club memeber, I believe it is $25 per gun, $20 for club members.
Danny
B
BMF
Guest
Thanks Danny, you might see me a little bit this summer at Quantico.
V
vinny
Guest
Longgggggggggggggggg winter Frank!
T
trouble
Guest
There is always room for one more at Quantico, Golden Boy.
O
oneflyer
Guest
Vinny
You don't know how right you are!!!!!!!!!!
You don't know how right you are!!!!!!!!!!
M
matthew dienes
Guest
long winter?
Vinny, dont let him fool ya , he's been soaking in the sun down south all"winter".
As far as the muzzle breaks in heavy gun are concerned, all that will happen is you will have more shooters competing in the class,I dont think guys will run out and have breaks installed on their HG's,but it will give the shooters that dont have a Big HG more of a chance with their LT gun .
At Williamsport 2008 season there was only 2 Big HG's with breaks one was a 6mm.So its not a big deal! But change in our sport is ?
Vinny, dont let him fool ya , he's been soaking in the sun down south all"winter".
As far as the muzzle breaks in heavy gun are concerned, all that will happen is you will have more shooters competing in the class,I dont think guys will run out and have breaks installed on their HG's,but it will give the shooters that dont have a Big HG more of a chance with their LT gun .
At Williamsport 2008 season there was only 2 Big HG's with breaks one was a 6mm.So its not a big deal! But change in our sport is ?
Dave Tooley
Active member
Matt
I agree with you. They only barrel I have now that I would put a break on is a 338. As barrels cycled through I would probaby thread for a break, makes sense while I was working on it anyway. I think if it got voted in it would be a non issue in a couple of matches as soon as the novelty wore off.
Dave
I agree with you. They only barrel I have now that I would put a break on is a 338. As barrels cycled through I would probaby thread for a break, makes sense while I was working on it anyway. I think if it got voted in it would be a non issue in a couple of matches as soon as the novelty wore off.
Dave
J
Jeff in OH
Guest
The only caveat I would add is HG is more enjoyable to shoot w/o all the muzzle blast from your neighbor's cannon. I am in the camp of shoot your LG w/o a brake if you want to shoot in HG that bad...or do like everyone else and invest in a HG.
J
J. Pendergraft
Guest
I would vote for it. It allows lighter heavy guns that can be competitive. Easier if you want to travel to distant matches, Easier to carry for those that can't tote a 75 lb rifle.
G
Gene Ford
Guest
Heavy gun
Guys here is a thought, well better make it a wrinkle, with all this discussion of muzzle brakes and light gun in a heavy gun class why not make the weight limit of the heavy gun class 25 or 30 pounds and up, after all we call it the heavy gun class not the heavy light gun modified class. We have a weight limit in the light gun class as to how much it can weight so why not one in the heavy gun class as to how much it must weight so as to qualify for the class. By doing this we should bring a close to this often discussed problem. Yes, you guessed it am a heavy gun owner, (one at 65+ and the other one is 35+) and think it should be keep pure, always have and always will shoot one as long as I can lift it or have someone do it for me. The break issue will solve it's self.
Gene
Guys here is a thought, well better make it a wrinkle, with all this discussion of muzzle brakes and light gun in a heavy gun class why not make the weight limit of the heavy gun class 25 or 30 pounds and up, after all we call it the heavy gun class not the heavy light gun modified class. We have a weight limit in the light gun class as to how much it can weight so why not one in the heavy gun class as to how much it must weight so as to qualify for the class. By doing this we should bring a close to this often discussed problem. Yes, you guessed it am a heavy gun owner, (one at 65+ and the other one is 35+) and think it should be keep pure, always have and always will shoot one as long as I can lift it or have someone do it for me. The break issue will solve it's self.
Gene
D
Danny Brooks
Guest
I don't see why this is even an issue. Most of the guys I know with lighter HGs won't invest in installing a brake. I have two HGs that weigh in at about 35 lbs. I would not even consider changing them.
If the new shooters want to shoot HG, but do not have one, unscrew the brake, and shoot your ten record rounds. It has been done many times before and will again. I personally did this back in '98 & '99. Plus I did it one time in '07. I shoot 30 cal. magnums.
All I see being accomplished by letting LGs shoot the HG class with their brakes, is increasing the noise and muzzle blast hiiting the next shooter in the face.
And I hate to see the day that someone shows up with a 408 Cheytac with a muzzle brake. If you have ever been next to one when it goes off, you know what havoc it can create. They may not shoot worth a darn, but it could cause someone else to shoot poorly also.
Danny
If the new shooters want to shoot HG, but do not have one, unscrew the brake, and shoot your ten record rounds. It has been done many times before and will again. I personally did this back in '98 & '99. Plus I did it one time in '07. I shoot 30 cal. magnums.
All I see being accomplished by letting LGs shoot the HG class with their brakes, is increasing the noise and muzzle blast hiiting the next shooter in the face.
And I hate to see the day that someone shows up with a 408 Cheytac with a muzzle brake. If you have ever been next to one when it goes off, you know what havoc it can create. They may not shoot worth a darn, but it could cause someone else to shoot poorly also.
Danny
T
trouble
Guest
I would only want 17 lb and under allowed muzzle brakes in HG to even the playing field a little for those whom would be shooting only one gun. I doub't anyone would be shooting a 338 Lapua or 407 Cheytac in light gun. If light guns with out muzzle brakes were all that competitive then no one would spend the extra for them anyway. I don't use them for my 6mm but find my 6.5 mm moves in the bags enough to hurt my groups so it has a muzzle brake.
V
vinny
Guest
And all this time I thought he was ass deep in snow
!Hope your having a nice winter. See ya in the spring. Hey that 6x47 shoots pretty well!
vinny
D
Danny Brooks
Guest
Bobby,
I have seen several shooters that were competitive with a LG w/o A brake in the HG class over the years. It reminds me of the old saying "beware the man who has only one gun, he may know how to use it"
Before I had a HG, I was shooting my LG in HG and winning more in HG than LG. So I know that it can be done. It may have helped that I started in this game with a 300 Win Mag Sendero w/o a brake. So I was used to the recoil and knew how to control the gun in the bags.
Danny
I have seen several shooters that were competitive with a LG w/o A brake in the HG class over the years. It reminds me of the old saying "beware the man who has only one gun, he may know how to use it"
Before I had a HG, I was shooting my LG in HG and winning more in HG than LG. So I know that it can be done. It may have helped that I started in this game with a 300 Win Mag Sendero w/o a brake. So I was used to the recoil and knew how to control the gun in the bags.
Danny