Boyd Allen
Active member
You might want to remember that when he polished out his chamber by .002, that in effect he made his FL die that much tighter relative to the chamber.
More on the why of Click
- Thread starter Boyd Allen
- Start date
I've got both. I've got reamers where I've left the tapers alone and swelled the whole thing and those which I've just swelled the rear end.
On my 6X47L chambers I pretty much left the shoulders the same as my old 6BR reamers, couple thou expansion.
On my 30X47L I went ahead and left the body taper alone and made the shoulder area larger too, figgered the extra shoulder support couldn't hurt.
I can't see any difference between reamers with as much as .006 difference in body tapers. I've fiddled with tapers quite a bit too. I've got no sizing problems from just swelling the butts.
I hope this helps
al
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Now comes the question
of dies. how much smaller do you make or have your sizing dies made? If a person were to have a reamer made that was .005 larger the entire length of the case and had planned on using say a Reading Full length die, would the die crunch the .005 back to the origional case size or does one need send fired brass off to a custom maker OR have one's own die making reamer which will shrink the cases back to their origional or "normal" size?
I appreciate your sharing this information in depth. Others have shared similar info without the details; to give them all the credit they deserve.
of dies. how much smaller do you make or have your sizing dies made? If a person were to have a reamer made that was .005 larger the entire length of the case and had planned on using say a Reading Full length die, would the die crunch the .005 back to the origional case size or does one need send fired brass off to a custom maker OR have one's own die making reamer which will shrink the cases back to their origional or "normal" size?
I appreciate your sharing this information in depth. Others have shared similar info without the details; to give them all the credit they deserve.
Boyd Allen
Active member
Here's the deal, I believe that it is important to get the right fit of a sized case, so you can do as Al does and send Neal Jones cases that have been fired till tight, and have a custom FL die, or you might try what I have done several times with success.
When working with a caliber where fired cases ( It is better to use old work hardened cases for this.) are available that are reduced in diameter along the full length of their bodies, by an off the shelf FL die, you can simply size several cases with the die, and design a reamer that gives the desired clearance on those cases. That way you get a custom fit for the price of an off the shelf die. I would add that if I was doing this project today, I would compare the reamer print against some new cases to make sure that things were not so close as to have click potential.
Using this process, we have built several rifles that use standard one piece dies for tight neck chambers, that give the correct neck tension, without the expander ball, very straight sized brass and ammunition, a great fit to chamber, and excellent accuracy.
On the last one, I designed the reamer so that with .002 total neck clearance on a loaded round, using the die without an expander gave .003 neck tension, and with the expander .002. Using the expander to do only .001 of expansion does not cock the case necks. This was for a tight neck chamber.
When working with a caliber where fired cases ( It is better to use old work hardened cases for this.) are available that are reduced in diameter along the full length of their bodies, by an off the shelf FL die, you can simply size several cases with the die, and design a reamer that gives the desired clearance on those cases. That way you get a custom fit for the price of an off the shelf die. I would add that if I was doing this project today, I would compare the reamer print against some new cases to make sure that things were not so close as to have click potential.
Using this process, we have built several rifles that use standard one piece dies for tight neck chambers, that give the correct neck tension, without the expander ball, very straight sized brass and ammunition, a great fit to chamber, and excellent accuracy.
On the last one, I designed the reamer so that with .002 total neck clearance on a loaded round, using the die without an expander gave .003 neck tension, and with the expander .002. Using the expander to do only .001 of expansion does not cock the case necks. This was for a tight neck chamber.
E
eww1350
Guest
Alinwa...interesting take on larger chamber base...back in the "olden days" we usta take a 6BR reamer and run it in deeper to make the 6 LBR (long BR)
or 6x44 to meet minimum NBRSA HBR chamber...and man they shot great..
with WW 760 at max loads...and never had any click...
Ah the good days..
or 6x44 to meet minimum NBRSA HBR chamber...and man they shot great..
with WW 760 at max loads...and never had any click...
Ah the good days..
I hear you Boyd except unless you want to screw with every chamber with inherint variables the die represents a nice fit. I got 2 actions and 8 barrels and I need no more than one shim size to put any case in any barrel and go to the line. I could not be happier.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I can see now
that it is all about the reamer. I mostly use a 30-44. I bought the reamer years ago. It was supposedly sized for using Remington cases. I also have a Neil Jones die for that reamer / chamber. Guess what, I still have clicky cases. I have had the die rebuilt once and STILL have clicky cases. I can see what I have to do is to polish the rear of the chambers a couple of thou and perhaps the click will go away.
Neil Jones makes great dies and super products but his dies won't make up for holes that are too small, from my experience.
Perhaps some of the reamer makers are reading some of this discussion about "The Click". I hope so at least because the next time a neophite calls them and asks for a reamer for a fairly standard chambering they will send them a reamer that is properly sized to allow a rifle that will work right.
that it is all about the reamer. I mostly use a 30-44. I bought the reamer years ago. It was supposedly sized for using Remington cases. I also have a Neil Jones die for that reamer / chamber. Guess what, I still have clicky cases. I have had the die rebuilt once and STILL have clicky cases. I can see what I have to do is to polish the rear of the chambers a couple of thou and perhaps the click will go away.
Neil Jones makes great dies and super products but his dies won't make up for holes that are too small, from my experience.
Perhaps some of the reamer makers are reading some of this discussion about "The Click". I hope so at least because the next time a neophite calls them and asks for a reamer for a fairly standard chambering they will send them a reamer that is properly sized to allow a rifle that will work right.
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Boyd Allen
Active member
Pete,
You said a mouth full, about the die not being able to make up for a chamber dimension issue. That is the whole point in a nut shell.
You said a mouth full, about the die not being able to make up for a chamber dimension issue. That is the whole point in a nut shell.
Jerry H
Different Drummer
I came up with this several years ago. You might consider it. I buy a factory die and take a cerrosafe casting of it, if it checks out true in my lathe. I order the reamer .0015 larger at the shoulder and .440 at .200 from the bolt face for a PPC or .002-.003 over the unfired brass for other cases. It works well for the life of the brass and I have been known to exceed book safe pressures as a matter of routine. Subtle polishing differences between chambers, in the order of .0001's will create interchangeability problems regarding the click issue at elevated pressures though, so I am at the minimum clearance to avoid the click so long as the brass is matched to it's own chamber.
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Boyd Allen
Active member
Hi Jerry,
You order the reamer smaller at the shoulder than the cast from the die? I would think that you would want the chamber larger than the die.
Boyd
You order the reamer smaller at the shoulder than the cast from the die? I would think that you would want the chamber larger than the die.
Boyd
Pete,
For a long time my Go-To method was to get two reamers .002 apart in diameter. One reamer is the "rougher" and the other the "finisher"...... in reality my chambers are mostly drilled and bored and the finish reamer is used to final out while the "rougher" is used only for what it was really made for, the die reamer.
This works well. Except for one wee liddle detail....... finding a way to have the die hardened. This has become problematic.
Then I talked to Jim Carstensen and he introduced me to the idea of tapering the die differently than the chamber.
My latest situation is a "6X47Lapua" chamber in which the chamber is cut .002 over at the shoulder and .009 over at the base of the brass. I ordered my Neil Jones reamer at .0015 crunch at the shoulder and .0035 crunch at the base and Neil didn't want to do it. He called me and talked me out of this taper. He set the base dimension at .0025 smaller than the chamber.
I haven't really ran it through it's paces yet cuz I haven't had time. I hate to make excuses but my daughter's getting married in a couple hours and this last few weeks has been a little hectical
I'm hoping that this is the perfect die fit.
But I don't know yet.
The 6X47L I'm currently shooting uses a die which is cut .002 smaller, same taper all-round. Problem is that the die is UNHARDENED....... look in the "Al's 6X47L" thread to see that it scratches cases. And it'll wear out. The die will last long enough, the barrel's already getting close to a thousand rounds......
BTW For all those reading this and considering it for the first time, lissen up.
Don't believe that "your gunsmith can just easily whip out a fitted die" by slamming a reamer into a hunk of Newlon stock. A die needs to be properly supported as its reamed. But of course a GOOD BR Gunsmith knows this....ennyhooo's...... I hope this all gives you something to think about Pete.
al
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Indeed it does Al
What I have always wanted is a rifle I could shoot and then easily open the bolt to eject cases. I have yet to own one . I have a new BAT RLR in it's completion stages and I am hoping it will work the way I have hoped. I am now thinking that I need to quickly send off for a larger reamer (s) to achieve my desires.
What I have always wanted is a rifle I could shoot and then easily open the bolt to eject cases. I have yet to own one
. I have a new BAT RLR in it's completion stages and I am hoping it will work the way I have hoped. I am now thinking that I need to quickly send off for a larger reamer (s) to achieve my desires.