More new Kelbly KLP stock pics

Al Nyhus

"It'll never work!"
A few pics to go along with Lou Murdica's nice ones.

This is for a new LV gun I'm putting together. Jim Kelbly had a 'painter' and sent it out since I was going to be doing some additional work to it anyway.

klp1.jpg


klp2.jpg


klp3.jpg


With the barrelled action, for reference as to fore end length:
klp4.jpg
 
Not utilizing the center screw on the Panda?

No. I don't have the pillars in hard contact with the action, so I use a threaded plug in the center screw hole to adjust the height of the action.

Good shootin'. -Al
 
Yes I did, Boyd. Not sure if Kelbly's offers molded in pillars in this model, though they do in others. -Al
 
Here goes another stupid question....

It appears your pillars are recessed below the bedding surface. Why?
 
This is the first time I have seen someone Spike an action into a stock :p

Pete, those are guide pins. I make the inside of the pillars .312 (5/16") and use these flanged Delrin sleeves with a .312 o.d. and .250 i.d. dimension. The sleeves are glued into the pillars and the action with the guide pins is dropped into the bedding. The result is the action screws are both perfectly centered in the pillars and there's plenty of clearance around the o.d. of the action screws after the bedding is complete. Hook the sleeves with a drill bit and they come right out of the pillars.

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It appears your pillars are recessed below the bedding surface.

They are. I like to have the tops of the pillars about .050-.060 below the bottom of the action. I know conventional wisdom dictates that the pillars should be hard against the action, but I've seen where the contact area changes over time and the action can end up being stressed as it's tightened down. Depending on the type of action, you can actually hear a difference if you dry fire with the pillars in hard contact and then after they're relieved and covered with bedding material.

Just my approach to it.....

Good shootin'. :) -Al
 
Well Al I am no gun builder but there is one thing I would do or want when I bed and that is the pillars NOT touching the bottom of the receiver. I would rather have a layer of bedding compound between the pillars and the receiver.
 
Hi,
Pardon my ignorance, but it seems that the forehand is very long. Or is it the barrel that is very short??
Also the stock hasn't got much drop. Is it a new trend?what are the advantages compare to say, the old mc millan BR design?
Do you get more flex in the stock with a longer forehand like that one?
Thanks .
Nic
 
Nic, many of the new style 'low rider' stocks have the fore end lengths stretched out as well as very shallow (top to bottom) butt ends. The amount of actual drop has to stay within the rules. When they are shallow top-to-bottom, the drop can appear less than what it actually measures.

Here's where it's at now: Panda with Stan Ware dovetailed recoil lug, 21.5" long NBRSA HBR taper barrel, Tony Larson 30mm double screw rings, Sightron 36X. With no butt plate or added weight, it comes in at 9lbs, 15oz.

Good shootin'. :) -Al

lv30br.jpg
 
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The nice part about the long forend is that if it is stiff enough that the rifle shoots well with the front bat near the end, you don't need to add weight to the butt to have enough weight on the rear sand bag. How do you like the Sightron?
 
Nice lookin work Al....do the Larson rings have plastic inserts? which part of the bbl did you use....it looks like most of the 1.250 breech is gone....and is it a 30BR???....or sumthing exotic...Roger
 
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How do you like the Sightron?

I like 'em, Boyd. I've had three 36's (two SII's and one Big Sky) and have a 6X a.o. for my HBR gun. The Big Sky is a bit better optically than the SII series. About the only thing I'd add is that on days with heavy overcast and light conditions, it can be difficult to see subtle mirage changes. About the same as a Weaver T36, a B&L 36, or a pre-comp series Leupold 36's....maybe a bit better, depending on the individual scope.

....do the Larson rings have plastic inserts? which part of the bbl did you use....it looks like most of the 1.250 breech is gone....and is it a 30BR???....or sumthing exotic...Roger

Roger, yes...the rings are the 30mm with the Delrin inserts. It's hard to see in the pic, but the barrel has 3" of the full 1.250 shank diameter. An NBRSA Hunter taper blank has 4" of 1.250 shank length. Muzzle dia. on this one is .840 and weight is 4lbs, 14.5 oz. finished. Chambering is a plain vanilla 30BR 'Robinett' with .025 freebore and the barrel is a Kreiger twisted 1:17.

Some interesting reading by Dan Lilja's with determining barrel stiffness:
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_making/rigidity_benchrest_rifles.htm

Here's the nugget from an article chocked full of gold:

When I calculated the deflection for the barrels all weighing 5 pounds - 4 ounces, there were a few surprises. Remember now, these examples all weighed the same but contour and length changed. The stiffest barrel was the already mentioned 18.60" long maximum heavy varmint barrel. The second stiffest barrel was one from what I call a 1.200" heavy varmint blank. It is just like a maximum heavy varmint blank but its diameter is .050" smaller its full length. This barrel is almost 21" long and utilizes all 5" of the 1.200" diameter cylinder. It fared so well because of the full use of the cylinder before the taper. The next stiffest barrel was a maximum heavy varmint blank with four of its five inches of 1.250" diameter cylinder cut off. With a 1" long thread shank (as all the examples have), this left no cylinder in front of the receiver. This barrel was 20.92" long to make the 5 and one quarter pound weight limit. At this length, almost 21", it is long enough that most shooter would accept it. That is probably not true of the short 18.6" long maximum heavy varmint barrel that was the stiffest. This barrel and the previous one are really of the same stiffness for all practical applications, just .000012" of deflection difference between them. The next stiffest barrel surprised me. It was a maximum Hunter class diameter barrel using all four inches of allowable 1.250" diameter shank. It came in at 21.85" in length and has a taper of .02273" per inch. The reason this barrel fared so well has to do with its maximum 1.250" diameter shank at the receiver. Remember the importance of diameter in the moment of inertia calculation. Even over the entire barrel length integration, this maximum diameter, at the breech end, was important. In all honesty, I thought this Hunter barrel would do poorly and used it as an example just to see how badly it would do.

Good shootin'. :) -Al
 
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Al,
After years of looking at maximizing stiffness as desirable, I have come to question this idea. In studying Varmint Al's information on how tuners work, I saw that there were several ways to have bullets exit the barrel so that there was some compensation for differences in velocity. They all involved slowing the swing of the projection of a line from the muzzle onto the target. Going the other way, increasing stiffness, would seem to make uniformity of velocity more critical. I have come to believe that like tight case neck clearance, and fit of brass at the back of chambers, that barrel stiffness may one of those things that can be taken farther than is functionally desirable. This is not to say that the stiffest barrels will not shoot well, but that there may be some advantage to their not being quite so stiff. Another person that expressed this thought was Harold Vaughn, who said that although increasing barrel weight was theoretical beneficial, that increasing stiffness might not show the same advantage. This was based on computer simulation, which I know is not infallible. Just stirring the pot while drinking my first cup of morning coffee.
Boyd
 
Boyd, there's no doubt in my mind that 'barrel stiffness' and 'barrel tuneablilty' are two seperate things that sometimes but not always overlap...at least as applies to centerfire bag guns.

The biggest percentage of evil-to-tune guns I've seen have been those with 1.250-ish straight cylinder (no taper) barrels. Granted, none of them true BR guns but rather very well built prairie dog and informal target rigs using top of the line components in known accuracy chamberings and put together by true accuracy 'smiths that know how to build good stuff. On two of these guns, the owners changed barrels to HV tapers and the mysterious tune issues magically went away. I know that doesn't correlate with how well a good rail gun shoots, but the platforms are so different that maybe the 'better' in a rail is in fact a 'negative' in a bag gun? I'm clueless :confused: on rail guns and happily ignorant ;) of rimfire stuff.

Second cup of Sulawesi down and heading to my daughters house to fix a sump pump in preparation for tomorrows rain....

Good shootin'. -Al
 
g-morning Al....thanks for the details....I agree on the bbl contours...I had bad luck with a Hunter profile that had most of the wt. removed from the breech end,,,now seem to hav good results taking no more than 1.5 inches off the big end and the cutting to length from there on the lil' end to make wt....Im whittlin on a 6mm/30 cal. Sailor (Savage AI LOng Range//Hunter legal 22-250 AI variant) and will let u know how it goes....Roger
 
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