John Kielly
Shari's fan club
Peter Paul Mauser got it right first time when he used the ¼ x 22 thread on his action screws - the only fine(ish) pitch common to both metric & imperial lathes.
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pduryee
Guest
My grandfather said that since he and his pals won the big war, we got to choose which system to use and it wasn't metric. Thanks Gramps.
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PPP MMM
Guest
Fractions
Jay you don't seem to follow here because if you were you would notice that with the fractions I was refering to the other two dudes. I'm a metric man and if I've had ever to deal with an imperial, fractions and the Amer. Stand. it was only because of American made actions and/or total over haul of old machinery such as lathes, precision grinders and so on. Othervice I wouldn't be looking for it. It's funny that only one dude picked up that what I was calling it an imperial and it's actually an American Standard. Well done, you'r the one and we all are the rest of the 999.
Shoot well
Peter
Jay you don't seem to follow here because if you were you would notice that with the fractions I was refering to the other two dudes. I'm a metric man and if I've had ever to deal with an imperial, fractions and the Amer. Stand. it was only because of American made actions and/or total over haul of old machinery such as lathes, precision grinders and so on. Othervice I wouldn't be looking for it. It's funny that only one dude picked up that what I was calling it an imperial and it's actually an American Standard. Well done, you'r the one and we all are the rest of the 999.
Shoot well
Peter
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NesikaChad
Guest
Go down swingin
I'll fight it. The metric system that is. Not cause I don't like it, but because I'll be damned if I'm tossing all my good inspection instruments to buy new ones.
NEVAR!!!!
I just spent close to 2500 a few months ago on a new set of Mics for my shop that doesn't even exist yet.
We won't even talk about gauge pins and blocks.
Or tooling.
Call me little big horn or the alamo.
The fraction is strong in this one
I'll fight it. The metric system that is. Not cause I don't like it, but because I'll be damned if I'm tossing all my good inspection instruments to buy new ones.
NEVAR!!!!
I just spent close to 2500 a few months ago on a new set of Mics for my shop that doesn't even exist yet.
We won't even talk about gauge pins and blocks.
Or tooling.
Call me little big horn or the alamo.
The fraction is strong in this one
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Sandbag
Guest
Chad
None of your measuring instruments measure in fractions. They measure in somewhat of a metric system. .0001 - .001 - .01 - .1 of an inch, not 1/128th - 1/64th - 1/32nd - 1/16th -1/8th ect.
Our monetary system is for all intents and purposes, a metric system. The easiest system in the world.
Have you ever thought about the fact that many tap drill sizes do not convert to a fraction? 1/4-20 is as good an example. Quick, what is the decimal size of a #7 drill?
We'll be metric some day, particularly with most of our manufacturing offshore now. This doesn't mean you have to get new equipment, just a $20.00 TI calculator.
I've been an injection moldmaker for about 25 years now and have had to use both systems. Believe me, the metric system is much easier. It's just a a matter of using it a bit, then you'll apperciate it's simplicity.
By the way, I don't own one metric measuring tool and believe me, I have well over $10,000 in measuring equipment. Have to replace the calculator occasionally though.
John
None of your measuring instruments measure in fractions. They measure in somewhat of a metric system. .0001 - .001 - .01 - .1 of an inch, not 1/128th - 1/64th - 1/32nd - 1/16th -1/8th ect.
Our monetary system is for all intents and purposes, a metric system. The easiest system in the world.
Have you ever thought about the fact that many tap drill sizes do not convert to a fraction? 1/4-20 is as good an example. Quick, what is the decimal size of a #7 drill?
We'll be metric some day, particularly with most of our manufacturing offshore now. This doesn't mean you have to get new equipment, just a $20.00 TI calculator.
I've been an injection moldmaker for about 25 years now and have had to use both systems. Believe me, the metric system is much easier. It's just a a matter of using it a bit, then you'll apperciate it's simplicity.
By the way, I don't own one metric measuring tool and believe me, I have well over $10,000 in measuring equipment. Have to replace the calculator occasionally though.
John
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
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PPP MMM
Guest
Mauser 98
Dennis no one ever said it has a metric thread. Just make sure that you get the 55 degree angle on it at first so you don't join the 999 without a fight.
Shoot well
Peter
Dennis no one ever said it has a metric thread. Just make sure that you get the 55 degree angle on it at first so you don't join the 999 without a fight.
Shoot well
Peter
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Dave Short
Guest
*The Metric system is here to stay............it has been a part of manufacturing in the US for longer than most realize, and will likely just continue to be used on more and more of the drawings we see.
*Having two systems in place isn't anything to get all worked up over.......if either one was truly superior to the other it would have pushed it out a long time ago.
*I could care less what the thread is on an action...............If I choose to work on one, I'll thread to fit it.
*Most of this thread has been a waste of time, and is a good example of why we ought to be using real names. Of course, using our real names would only serve to keep civility if someone in the game actually knows the individual.
*How many Machinists are there in 1,000? (the rest are 'chiners).......Those who know, know. Those who don't, don't matter.
-Dave-
*Having two systems in place isn't anything to get all worked up over.......if either one was truly superior to the other it would have pushed it out a long time ago.
*I could care less what the thread is on an action...............If I choose to work on one, I'll thread to fit it.
*Most of this thread has been a waste of time, and is a good example of why we ought to be using real names. Of course, using our real names would only serve to keep civility if someone in the game actually knows the individual.
*How many Machinists are there in 1,000? (the rest are 'chiners).......Those who know, know. Those who don't, don't matter.
-Dave-
For you engineers...
We would be using metric here in the US for everything if it were not for you engineers. The Britts and the US dominated the industrial world after WWII. With thie unified english speaking world in charge industrial standards had to be established. NATO ammo, Unified fine, Unified Course, Imperial and many others just look at the Machinist handbook. There are so many threads it isn't funny. In the US a group of automotive engineers got to gether and established the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers). My 1999 Ford has about as many metric screws and bolts ast it does SAE bolts and screws. This is due to the parts that are farmed out to foreign vendors. In the
1970's the US government got a wild hair up their backside and decided we would go metric. But resistence in the market place has slowed the tranisition.
I have a stash of bolts and screws in my shop and yes, I have both Unified Standard, Unified fine, SAE, and Metric and some european metric and chi-com metric. Guns on the other hand also have 10, 12, 13, 14, 16, 18, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 38, 40, 42, 48, 60, 64, 68, 80, 88, 96, 120 thread per inch screws. I am sure I forgot some. Thank you engineers for keeping our mechanical world simple.
I agree metric makes sense, but who said governments that are political will ever do what makes sense.
Rustystud
We would be using metric here in the US for everything if it were not for you engineers. The Britts and the US dominated the industrial world after WWII. With thie unified english speaking world in charge industrial standards had to be established. NATO ammo, Unified fine, Unified Course, Imperial and many others just look at the Machinist handbook. There are so many threads it isn't funny. In the US a group of automotive engineers got to gether and established the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers). My 1999 Ford has about as many metric screws and bolts ast it does SAE bolts and screws. This is due to the parts that are farmed out to foreign vendors. In the
1970's the US government got a wild hair up their backside and decided we would go metric. But resistence in the market place has slowed the tranisition.
I have a stash of bolts and screws in my shop and yes, I have both Unified Standard, Unified fine, SAE, and Metric and some european metric and chi-com metric. Guns on the other hand also have 10, 12, 13, 14, 16, 18, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 38, 40, 42, 48, 60, 64, 68, 80, 88, 96, 120 thread per inch screws. I am sure I forgot some. Thank you engineers for keeping our mechanical world simple.
I agree metric makes sense, but who said governments that are political will ever do what makes sense.
Rustystud
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
I disagree! In the 70's we, at Kodak, spent several million dollars to change drawing dimensions from inch to metric. This was before we had CAD systems so the drawings had to be changed by redrawing them. We spent tens of thousands of dollars buying metric measuring tools. We now had 12 inch metric scales, we now had 25.4 mm diameter bar stock that was still one inch in diameter.
The reason the US to metric fell through, and this is the truth, was spelling. The ISO, International Standards Organization, wanted to spell meter, meter. They wanted to spell liter, liter. The SI, Standards International', based in France wanted to spell meter, MITRE'. They wanted to spell liter, LITER'.
SI thought they had the right to establish spelling because they had the master atomic clock. They even printed bumper stickers saying "Because MITRE and LITRE are neater".
The US became (was) the most industrialized nation in the world using the inch system. Why should we change?? The ChiComs are making our inch stuff just fine.
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Bnhpr
Guest
Rusty,
I do not have the time to compose a lengthy dissertation on post WW2 economics, but I have worked internationally/domestically in the oil and gas business for the past 13 years.
I've lived in Singapore for 3 1/2 years, Belfast NI for a year, and am now working back in the US. I have been involved with manufacturing Diesel engines in Augsburg Germany, at the MAN B&W plant that holds Rudolf Diesels original patent. The CAT engine plants in Peoria and Lafayette Illinois, Drilling equipment in Houston, Tx, Kristiansand Norway and various other locations worldwide. Shipbuilding operations in Singapore, Ulsan, South Korea, Brownsville, TX, Galveston, Pascagoula, Harland and Wolfe, In Belfast, where they built the titanic. You name any industrial country in the world, that builds machinery, and I've probably done business with them.
You can blame me, but here is what I am certain of.
U.S. manufacturing, education systems and everyday life WILL convert to SI units, or the U.S. will be economically and technically OVERRUN by the rest of the world, and the U.S. will become a poor ass country that cannot defend itself, like Communism fell, so will U.S. capitalism, because it cannot adapt to change.
Do you realize what is happening to the US dollar, and why?
Wouldn't it be nice to see Made in USA attached to something that is made better than elsewhere?
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gunmaker
Guest
Do you really believe this?
Man I feel stupid. I thought capitalism was an economic system where business and manufacturing are privately owned and operated with the intent of making a profit. Where the pricing of goods and services are based on supply, demand and competition in an open market.
Sounds like capitalism constantly adapts to change. Until the government gets in the way. This only happens on a daily basis.
capitalist gunmaker
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Bnhpr
Guest
I see your point blaming the government, but who is the government? You? Me?
My point is that Americans need to learn and embrace metrics. Ceo's, engineers, machinists and the guy sweeping the shop.
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PPP MMM
Guest
Dave Short
Dave you'r really "Short" because you still can't get it and even contradicting your self in what you say. At one breath you say that everything w'll be metric one day and in the next breath you state about the no superiority of one over the other. There is no any MECHANICAL advantage, as the only SUPERIORYTY lies in the SIMPLICITY of the METRIC so even someone who is dull can use it without geting confused. The Yanks and the Poms so far only survived the change because not just of their patriotic stubborness to any change, but also because of economical strength and greed. The change is very costly. One day it will happen and the longer it takes the more it will cost. Did you finally got it???? By the look of it, You'r one of those who would benefit the most.
Shoot well
Peter
Dave you'r really "Short" because you still can't get it and even contradicting your self in what you say. At one breath you say that everything w'll be metric one day and in the next breath you state about the no superiority of one over the other. There is no any MECHANICAL advantage, as the only SUPERIORYTY lies in the SIMPLICITY of the METRIC so even someone who is dull can use it without geting confused. The Yanks and the Poms so far only survived the change because not just of their patriotic stubborness to any change, but also because of economical strength and greed. The change is very costly. One day it will happen and the longer it takes the more it will cost. Did you finally got it???? By the look of it, You'r one of those who would benefit the most.
Shoot well
Peter
Butch Lambert
Active member
Dave, I guess you and I are sh-t out of luck.
Butch
Butch
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Dave Short
Guest
Again, you make my point about rude people who hide behind their "handle". You may make all the insults you want, but be aware that you are showing your true mentality and small-mindedness.
There is no contradiction in the statement that we'll be all metric one day and that one system is not superior to the other; in fact, I don't see where one statement has anything to do with the other.
It is interesting that your final insult is that, as you see it, I'd benefit the most from the simplicity of the metric system........of all the responses, you are the one who is most excited about the simplicity of it.
BTW, you get the gold star for your forehead; I don't recall anyone making insults of anyone's sirname since grade school.
-Dave-
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Dave Short
Guest
Butch,
How refreshing it is to address someone with a real name! Funny thing about these threads, some folks don't realize how much their character (or lack thereof) sticks out.
Another funny thing, I'd mentioned in an earlier post that I've been using the two systems, usually on a daily basis, for years. There is still a mentality that we have to use one or the other, and cannot see them as independent, stand-alone systems that we can work with on an as-needed basis. I'll state again that I quit converting years ago. Darned near all of our equipment, from computer software to machine controls to inspection equipment is capable of working in either system.........we can just work within what ever system the drawing is dimensioned in.
I think we should begin to discuss the pros and cons of third angle projection vs. first angle projection.................ya think the Pee Pee Pee-mmmmmmmmm guy knows everything about those two systems too?
-Dave-
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Dave Short
Guest
Come to think of it, I'd rather be !@#$ out of luck along side of a decent guy with a real name than walkin' in tall cotton with some mystery jerk that doesn't know his a$$ from a hole in the ground.
-Dave-
Butch Lambert
Active member
Dave, beside having a small machine shop, I have been in the automotive business for 40yrs. I started using metric and quickly went to a combo. If you work on all of them you do both. I don't see any magic in metric and I use it on a daily basis. I believe like Gunmaker, going metric ain't the answer to our problems and also has nothing to do with us being a world power or not. It is much deeper than that.
Butch
Butch
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Dave Short
Guest
Butch, I don't think the metric system even makes the list of reasons why we're losing manufacturing to overseas suppliers........But I'll bet the contents of my wallet that the disparity of production costs....lead by wages, environmental, safety, and tax issues tops the list.
And with that, my work here (this thread) is done.
-Dave-