Lothar Walthar BBLs

Franchi

Two. Well, one actuall LW barrel, the other was a Blackstar, which was manufactured by LW for Blackstar from the same alloy.
Neither was for a Benchrest Rifle.
From my experience as a Machinist, I would say that the steel is qiuite a bit tougher tham what most Gunsmiths are used too, and you can get in trouble pretty quick if you are not carefull. It poccesses non of the free machining characteristics of 416R.
I bought a LW Unlimited Blank about 6 years ago, for my Unlimited. The blank that they sent me was not what I wanted, (more of a communication gap than anything), and when I chucked it up, it wasn't real straight. I said to heck with it, and gave it away as a door prize at that years Buffalo Shoot at Midland........jackie
 
I need a comparison

Ok so what type of Stainless Steel our S&W Hand guns made out of? Or Colt? Ruger?By trade I'm an Iron worker and we install SS grade 316. Is that too soft for a rifle barrel? Thanks everybody for the time and effort and great information.:D
 
Worker

316 is what is called an Austenitic Stainless. It has a rather low carbon content, and gets it's properties from alloying elements such as Manganeeze and Chromium. It does not respond to heat treating in order to enhance or arrive at a certain physical property. Some do respond to cold working, such as rolling, to enhance their strength.
Most of the 300 stainless steels are in this category. These steels are used where the "as alloyed" properties are adequate coupled with a need for a good resistance to corrosion.
Stainless Steels such as 17-4 are in the precipitating hardenning category. This means they respond to a single heat treat, at a certain temperature, for a specific time. The common term for this is "age hardenning'.
Stainless Steels such as 410, 416, 430, and 440, are Martensetic Stainless Steels. This means that they can be hardenned and tempered to a desired strength and hardness level much in the same manner as alloy such as 4140. The hardness achieved is usually determined by the carbon content. Corrosion resistance usually suffers, though, when compared to the 300 series.
We overlay (weld up), large propellor shafts for tug boats with 308, 309, and 316 Stainless.
Ruger uses an investment casting for their hand gun frames, I have no idea what the alloy is. But you can rest assured that it is an alloy that is up to the task......jackie
 
When you read the Lothar Walther brochure, they are unequalled in the world of precision riflery. In fact, they are a nice enough barrel but they are not quite what they claim. One I chambered was decidedly curved although LW claimed impressive straightness requirements.
Their stainless does machine with somewhat more difficulty and a good finish is not quite as easy to achieve. Their chromoly barrels are just fine.
On tough chambering:
I recently chambered a couple of Shilen stainless barrels which were horrid. They work hardened so badly the reamer cut with great difficulty. In fact, the pressure required in one case was considerable and, when the reamer did finally bite, I thought it was going to break. I even called Dave Kiff and bitched about the reamer. He replaced the reamer but the next one was little better, squealing and grabbing. I again complained (quite wrongly I might add; there was nothing wrong with the reamer) and Dave mentioned hearing of a batch of steel which seemed to work harden quite badly. The next Shilen I used was for a 6PPC (the first was a 300H&H) and was cut with a tried and true reamer. It cut hard too. In the end I had to feed the reamer way faster than I normally do to keep it cutting. I was bummed. On top of that, I now have to grovel whenever I talk to Kiff after wrongly accusing him of sending me a bum reamer. Anybody else run into hard to ream 416 or was it just me? Regards, Bill.
 
Bill Leeper said:
When you read the Lothar Walther brochure, they are unequalled in the world of precision riflery. In fact, they are a nice enough barrel but they are not quite what they claim. One I chambered was decidedly curved although LW claimed impressive straightness requirements.
Their stainless does machine with somewhat more difficulty and a good finish is not quite as easy to achieve. Their chromoly barrels are just fine.
On tough chambering:
I recently chambered a couple of Shilen stainless barrels which were horrid. They work hardened so badly the reamer cut with great difficulty. In fact, the pressure required in one case was considerable and, when the reamer did finally bite, I thought it was going to break. I even called Dave Kiff and bitched about the reamer. He replaced the reamer but the next one was little better, squealing and grabbing. I again complained (quite wrongly I might add; there was nothing wrong with the reamer) and Dave mentioned hearing of a batch of steel which seemed to work harden quite badly. The next Shilen I used was for a 6PPC (the first was a 300H&H) and was cut with a tried and true reamer. It cut hard too. In the end I had to feed the reamer way faster than I normally do to keep it cutting. I was bummed. On top of that, I now have to grovel whenever I talk to Kiff after wrongly accusing him of sending me a bum reamer. Anybody else run into hard to ream 416 or was it just me? Regards, Bill.
Click to expand...

I chambered a Shilen barrel in 257 Roberts a month ago that had a lot of chatter. I think Shilen struggled with it too, since it was not very straight bore.

I messed and messed with it, trying to dial it in, and it was bent in the middle enough so you could easily see it with the naked eye, as it rotated in the lathe. I tried to indicate the chamber end, and the muzzle flopped a 1/4"

Another complaint, is that when they turned the diameter (Rem varmint taper) it looks like they used a dead center with no white lead. I mean, it was galled, flared and scorched from the heat? I could not believe this.


Also, there was a bad gouge in the barrel that could not be sanded out. It was .020" or deeper. It looked like a tool hit it, and broke. It was 2 inches from the end, so I had to live with it, and file and file in the lathe, then sand. It took me an hour to get it out.


Then, it shoots like crap (1"), so I am going to take it back off, and have a Hart to put on it.

Very disappointed with this Shilen.
 
To Jackie Schmidt: r.e. LW barrels

Jackie,
Thank you for your professional discussion of Lothar Walther barrels. It was very informative, factual, and to the point. Based on your explanation, I would consider a LW pre-fit for a varmint rig but not benchrest.
Chino69
 
As far as the Shilen

barrels go, I have never had one chamber hard, work harden etc and we have chambered literally hundreds of them. How the bore can be 1/4" off I really dont understand either. We line up the chamber end with a deltronic pin and the muzzle end never moves off more then .060 or so. You would think if you had all this trouble with work hardening they would have found the issues in one of the drilling, reaming or buttoning operations too. If there is a problem, call Shilen, talk to Wade and I will bet he more then takes care of you.
 
Butch Lambert said:
Ben,
I'm sure you gave them a courtesy of a call. What did they tell you?
Butch
Click to expand...

Butch,

I have to take it off send it back to Shilen when I get home. I spoke with M-USA, the people I bought it from. And they said no returns on barrels, but Shilen said they would look at it.

It's still on the rifle just now, and I have been in Korea and Europe for a month. I'll take care of it in July.

I should have sent it straight back, without chambering it, but I was more curious than anything to see if it would shoot.

Ben
 
stiller said:
. We line up the chamber end with a deltronic pin and the muzzle end never moves off more then .060 or so. .
Click to expand...

Is .060" ok? The kriegers I'be been using, are not out .001?

I ended up indicating the breech, near the throat with the long stylus, and I parted off the messed up piece at the end of the muzzle, and indicated it near the tip.

I figured this would give me the best chance.

Is this wrong? Should I have just let the muzzle flop around in this case, since the bore was not straight?
 
Kreigers are great barrels, but I have never found one that close. Really you should have contacted Shilen at the get go. I have never had a barrel from them or any other manufacture that was as you described. If it were that bad, it would have messed up their tooling. I will look for you to post the eventual outcome. I trust they were courteous to you?
Butch
 
Butch Lambert said:
Kreigers are great barrels, but I have never found one that close. Really you should have contacted Shilen at the get go. I have never had a barrel from them or any other manufacture that was as you described. If it were that bad, it would have messed up their tooling. I will look for you to post the eventual outcome. I trust they were courteous to you?
Butch
Click to expand...

Yeah, and I don't know if this is shilen's fault, it could be me screwing up, I'll be the first to admit. But the barrel is definitely not straight. I fooled with it for several hours, wher other barrels took me 20 minutes to get them less than .001.

The other thing that was weird, was the barrel was very dirty inside and out, I mean, beat up too. I wonder how Midway stores these? It had lots of dings and peened areas, where it looked like it rolled around in the back of a pickup for 6 months, or vibrated against other barrels.

when I put it between centers, it was bent in the middle. I did not put a dial on it, cuz i was just trying to polish it, but It was off a lot. maybe .050 or so just guessing, on the outside. the way the dead center was cooked, I thought this might have had it out of whack. I did not consider making a cut on it, so i used heavy sand paper and a single cut flat file.

So, the barrel appeared to be bent on the outside. Like someone used it as a pry bar.

have you ever seen this?

Again, did I indicate it as i should have?

Ben
 
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I have no problem with shilen, but every one that I have chambered that was already tapered by shilen had a lot of runout when stuck between centers. I thought that was normal, but the last barrel I did was a krieger and it had no runout. I dont know if it matters but the shilen barrels were all their standard match barrels, not the select ones.
 
BugEyedValiant said:
I have no problem with shilen, but every one that I have chambered that was already tapered by shilen had a lot of runout when stuck between centers. I thought that was normal, but the last barrel I did was a krieger and it had no runout. I dont know if it matters but the shilen barrels were all their standard match barrels, not the select ones.
Click to expand...

Runout at muzzle, breech or middle?
 
They shot just fine. They were only out probably .020 or so, but when you put them between centers to polish up the outside they dont run true in the center. Then when I cut them off to crown them, the bore is not in the center of the blank. The only ones that were centered and true, are the ones that I recut the taper on the whole barrel. That is something I never enjoy....
 
jackie schmidt said:
I have to ask. Why would how much a barrel's OD runs out with the ID affect how you true it up to chamber??......jackie
Click to expand...

Jackie, That's a rhetorical question..

The ID and OD both had runout, in the same direction, hence my hypothesis "bent"
The written language is such a crude form of communication......but let me explain....the bore looked like a jumprope in the middle, when rotated in the lathe, with the ends indicated in.

Butch,

Don't get caught up in symantics, .001....... I've not measured and neither have you, or do you have an indicator with a 15 inch stylus?, since I already know your views on range rods. Or maybe I don't? You never replied to my other post.

What is your method on indication? I couldn't find it in your posts, but you certainly have an opinion on how others do it?

I know what Jackie does, he has been very forthcoming with his techniques, for the better of the sport, I can see he cares, how 'bout you?

Ben
 
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Ben,
You mentioned the .001 not me. I use a Deltronic pin in the muzzle and indicate the throat area on the breech end. I drill, reindicate the breech grooves and bore and ream. Sorry that I haven't mentioned it to you before.
I am not Jackie, but I would have sent the barrel back if it were like you described. You did keep the end of the barrel that you cut off? If you don't it is a good idea.
Butch
 
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