Lot Testing With Tuner

tonykharper said:
Getting back to where this thread started. Lot testing should be all about testing lots available against each other.

Eliminating all parts of the rifle that may not perform consistently is a good idea.

Strip down the rifle to it's basic parts. Action, trigger, barrel is all you need.

How about the tuner? If you are one that believes a tuner changes the consistency of your rifle leave it on.

If you think the tuner changes "time in the barrel" then it shouldn't matter.

The tuner always weights the same from shot to shot and if it is locked into position it will not change from shot to shot.

But leaving it on can have a downside. Since tuners are moveable and many contain o rings, there is a chance that they can vibrate different from shot to shot.

As others have said they lock down their tuners.

Great ammo will not make a rifle that shoots inconsistently perform. Nor can you find great ammo testing with an inconsistent rifle.

Here is an example of a lockable tuner. I copied this design from one of the best machinist in the business and one of the nicest guys I've ever known. Bob Messina.
View attachment 24418 View attachment 24419

TKH
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This is disappointing, seeing such misunderstanding of what tuners actually do, from someone held in such high esteem as yourself.

Hopefully, you'll explain the science behind your claim about o rings and while you're at it, perhaps explain how o rings work on centerfire but apparently, according to your post, not on rimfire.

Maybe you'll explain the actual science behind tuners being "locked solid" and what has won virtually every rf match ever, without being locked solid. I've asked a lot of smart folks why they believe tuners work differently on a rf vs a cf. Maybe this is where you'll tell us all. No one else has, yet.

Maybe you'll believe that a torqued bolt can work loose because it moves due to vibration, even torqued to tremendously higher levels than I think you're alluding to. Not so much anymore, but I bet lots of us recall bolts working loose on our automobiles, years ago, that were torqued, sometimes multiple times.

Maybe or maybe not. But to me, I see holes in your theory and just more conjecture. I for one, expect more from a champion. I thought I was on the wrong "channel" for a minute.
 
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mwezell said:
This is disappointing, seeing such misunderstanding of what tuners actually do, from someone held in such high esteem as yourself.

Hopefully, you'll explain the science behind your claim about o rings and while you're at it, perhaps explain how o rings work on centerfire but apparently, according to your post, not on rimfire.

Maybe you'll explain the actual science behind tuners being "locked solid" and what has won virtually every rf match ever, without being locked solid. I've asked a lot of smart folks why they believe tuners work differently on a rf vs a cf. Maybe this is where you'll tell us all. No one else has, yet.

Maybe you'll believe that a torqued bolt can work loose because it moves due to vibration, even torqued to tremendously higher levels than I think you're alluding to. Not so much anymore, but I bet lots of us recall bolts working loose on our automobiles, years ago, that were torqued, sometimes multiple times.

Maybe or maybe not. But to me, I see holes in your theory and just more conjecture. I for one, expect more from a champion. I thought I was on the wrong "channel" for a minute.
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Mike,

Old friend I think you either misread/misunderstood what I wrote or perhaps I wasn't clear.

My post has absolutely nothing to do with how or why tuners work. Nor does it reject or advocate how or why they improve accuracy, rimfire or centerfire.

My post is about testing ammo lots to determine which lots are the most consistent.

I suggested testing is better served by eliminating as many factors as possible.

Your quote in part "Maybe you'll explain the actual science behind tuners being "locked solid". My point is if it doesn't move between lots being tested it can't mess up results.

"I've asked a lot of smart folks why they believe tuners work differently on a rf vs a cf. Maybe this is where you'll tell us all. No one else has, yet."
 I never said they did. I would be the first to tell you I have no idea if they do.

"Maybe you'll believe that a torqued bolt can work loose because it moves due to vibration, even torqued to tremendously higher levels than I think you're alluding to. Not so much anymore, but I bet lots of us recall bolts working loose on our automobiles, years ago, that were torqued, sometimes multiple times."
 You kinda lost me here, no tuner I ever used had bolts, however they did have screws and sometimes I've found them loose.

Mike, I have no theories on tuners.

As I said before I was simply suggesting when you test ammo, test ammo and as little else as possible. I also stated ammo will not fix a contraption that has other problems.

I respect all the time you have spent improving many of the things we use in our sport. I gladly leave to you and others the task of developing theories

to explain why these things work.

That said, leave the shooting to me.

TKH
 
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mwezell said:
This is disappointing, seeing such misunderstanding of what tuners actually do, from someone held in such high esteem as yourself.

Hopefully, you'll explain the science behind your claim about o rings and while you're at it, perhaps explain how o rings work on centerfire but apparently, according to your post, not on rimfire.

Maybe you'll explain the actual science behind tuners being "locked solid" and what has won virtually every rf match ever, without being locked solid. I've asked a lot of smart folks why they believe tuners work differently on a rf vs a cf. Maybe this is where you'll tell us all. No one else has, yet.

Maybe you'll believe that a torqued bolt can work loose because it moves due to vibration, even torqued to tremendously higher levels than I think you're alluding to. Not so much anymore, but I bet lots of us recall bolts working loose on our automobiles, years ago, that were torqued, sometimes multiple times.

Maybe or maybe not. But to me, I see holes in your theory and just more conjecture. I for one, expect more from a champion. I thought I was on the wrong "channel" for a minute.
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Let’s kick that dead horse one more time.......yeah!
 
tim said:
let’s kick that dead horse one more time.......yeah!
Click to expand...
when i was making the first rimfire jacked bullets ever made when weighting powder it varied heigt in the case upon inspe4ction i found excess priming fluid in head and sides i felt this culd a part of the problem.
 
I've wondered

BillBrawand said:
when i was making the first rimfire jacked bullets ever made when weighting powder it varied heigt in the case upon inspe4ction i found excess priming fluid in head and sides i felt this culd a part of the problem.
Click to expand...

if the amount of primer may be the difference between good ammo and not so good ammo. There really isn't much else.

Pete
 
The purpose of a rimfire barrel tuner?

I always thought that the purpose of a rimfire barrel tuner was to compensate for velocity variations in the projectile by 'timing' the point in the barrel's vibration node at the point of exit so that at a certain range the projectiles all went through the same hole.

Anyway, that's how I read into Varmint Al's description many years ago.

* doggie *
 
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