Long tube target scopes -- Unertl or Lyman?

M

Montana Pete

Guest
I have a heavy barrel .22 target rifle that mounts a Lyman Targetspot scope in 15X. I like the scope a lot.

Some recent threads here sing the praises of the Unertl target scopes. I don't see much mentioned about Lyman.

I sort of get the feeling that experienced shooters tend to prefer Unertl. How about Lyman?

Are Lyman Targetspot scopes still being made? It's my impression that Unertl is no longer in business.
 
Unertyl is still in business, just far from the old company. They build scopes mainly for military and law enforcement sniper rifles. They are very expensive and nothing even resembling the old long tubes.

John M. Carper

p.s. try www.unertloptics.com
 
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Lyman SuperTargetSpot scopes are no longer being made...its been many many years since the last production. Gil Parsons at Parsons scope service bought all remaining stock from Lyman when they discontinued production. What parts remain are likely in his possession and he does rehabilitate, repair and adjust these scopes. In my opinion the Lyman STS is superior to the older Unertl scopes of similar design. The big (and newer vintage) Unertls are a different story and have slightly superior optics and mechanics along with lots more weight.

If you obtain a Lyman STS in reasonable condition it can indeed be a goodperformer. They look cool on the old rifles too. Price on them tends to increase with magnification, the 25X bringing the higher prices. You did not ask but good modern scopes are far superior to any of the older barrel mounted long tube units. I'd spend $1000 on a Leupold competition, good bases and rings and even drilling and tapping a receiver before I'd drop the same amount on a Lyman STS or Unertl. I speak from experience here. bob
 
Bob...

bob finger said:
Lyman SuperTargetSpot scopes are no longer being made...its been many many years since the last production. Gil Parsons at Parsons scope service bought all remaining stock from Lyman when they discontinued production. What parts remain are likely in his possession and he does rehabilitate, repair and adjust these scopes. In my opinion the Lyman STS is superior to the older Unertl scopes of similar design. The big (and newer vintage) Unertls are a different story and have slightly superior optics and mechanics along with lots more weight.

If you obtain a Lyman STS in reasonable condition it can indeed be a goodperformer. They look cool on the old rifles too. Price on them tends to increase with magnification, the 25X bringing the higher prices. You did not ask but good modern scopes are far superior to any of the older barrel mounted long tube units. I'd spend $1000 on a Leupold competition, good bases and rings and even drilling and tapping a receiver before I'd drop the same amount on a Lyman STS or Unertl. I speak from experience here. bob
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Bob, I have shot and owned both and have yet to find a Lyman STS with a good a set of optic as a Unertl. JMHO and experience. I have one STS currently, out at Parsons for a look see. Its a 25X and its good but no Unertl IMHO. --Greg
 
Greg: You stated you think Unertl Optics are better. I did not qualify mine but stated I think the STS is superior. If you rank optics first then you might be correct. Overall though I stand by my opinion. I have owned STS's and small and large Unertls. That is why we have choices for we don't all judge things the same way. I like my steak rare and think those who like it medium or medium well are ruining a good piece of beef. Some folks won't eat it rare. bob
 
Bob..

bob finger said:
Greg: You stated you think Unertl Optics are better. I did not qualify mine but stated I think the STS is superior. If you rank optics first then you might be correct. Overall though I stand by my opinion. I have owned STS's and small and large Unertls. That is why we have choices for we don't all judge things the same way. I like my steak rare and think those who like it medium or medium well are ruining a good piece of beef. Some folks won't eat it rare. bob
Click to expand...

Amen bro! Just keep shooting. Both makes are very good.
 
Greetings Pete. I posted questions about those type scopes in several different forums to cultivate as much information/opinion as I could. Received a lot of good info/opinions on, and comparison of, Unertl, Lyman, Fecker, etc. You'll have to wade through some of (My beginner) questions but if you are interested here are the links-

http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?6521-Practicality-of-“Vintage”-rifle-scope-combo

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330566

I lucked out, things clicked into place, and I have a CMP Winchester 52D and Lyman STS 30X w/box & papers on the way.

Cheers,

Mark
 
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Montana Pete said:
I have a heavy barrel .22 target rifle that mounts a Lyman Targetspot scope in 15X. I like the scope a lot.

Some recent threads here sing the praises of the Unertl target scopes. I don't see much mentioned about Lyman.

I sort of get the feeling that experienced shooters tend to prefer Unertl. How about Lyman?

Are Lyman Targetspot scopes still being made? It's my impression that Unertl is no longer in business.
Click to expand...

I've had Lyman STSs and Unertl 2 inch Targets. Optically they are pretty similar but that big Unertl objective sure gives a very bright image. Truthfully, I preferred the Unertls and sold the STSs.

Another one from the old days is the Bausch&Lomb 6-24X. I have one and like it but at the higher powers it's not as bright as the fixed power Unertls.

All of these scopes still bring high prices--proof that they are still in demand despite their weight and primitive mounts. And, as someone else said, they look great. For those of us who were hunting woodchucks and crows with them in the 1950s and 1960s, nothing says "Varmint Rifle" as well as a heavy- barreled, walnut-stocked rifle topped by a Unertl, Lyman or B&L!
 
Mark--

Thanks for those websites. I went out and read both of those threads and learned quite a bit, although I suspect that purchase of these scopes for over $900 and up is a bit rich for my blood. It just makes me grateful I have the one I have.

Mine is a Lyman STS in 15X. Someone stated they didn't know the magnification of one of these scopes that they owned, but guessed it was a 20X. This confuses me, because a ring back by the eyepiece end of mine has a "15X" impressed in white against the black blueing.

I am very glad to share that I do have the recoil spring on mine. You hardly need one on a 22LR, but they sure do look neat. Did you ever get the recoil spring on yours?

Mine is mounted on a Savage Model 19NRA target rifle -- a rather heavy-barrel item. The gun plus scope look very cool -- not inferior to some of the photos posted on the website you referenced.

One problem with my scope was getting it mounted -- the gunsmith could not find or obtain bases that would work. As I recall, I went to several gunsmiths. Finally, one of them obtained "the wrong" mount and milled it down to the correct height! This was many years ago.

-----------------------------

I am bewildered by vincvanb who tells of hunting crows and woodchucks with his STS type scopes.

Do people realize that the objective lens needs to be dialed in to the distance in order to use one of these scopes? For instance, I am shooting smallbore at 25 yds, and decide to shoot a target at 50 yds. It would be all blurred. I would have to dial the objective lens to the correct distance to get any clarity. My objective has white embossed marks for 50 ft and for 25, 50, and farther yards.

How could a person use that scope on crows, unless all the crows decided to land at the exact same distance from the shooter? Ditto for woodchucks.

People who have ever used these scopes will know what I am talking about. They were pretty much a "paper targets" item.
 
More of the long scopes were probably used in varmint shooting than punching paper in the 40's, and 50's. Remember that bench rest competition really started up in the late 40's so is a "new" game.

Yes, you need to focus for clarity but more important is to remove the parallax which is not always the same focus point. That is just as important with a modern AO scope. Dial it in and shoot the crow, or woodchuck, or p dog or paper. bob
 
We hunted varmints for years with Lymans or Unertls and I still have one on my Squirrel rifle
 
Primitive Mounts? Just what do you think is inside your fancy new short tube scope. Additionally those adjustments in the back are micrometer types and are very precise. One more little tidbit other than the fact that they are barrel mounted the optics do not walk on there own as we are finding in a lot of our current contraptions.
Mitchell Optics was making new versions of these types ( out of business) They started cost wise at about $1100, no worse than any thing else currently available in the high end equip.
Weight really is the only issue that tends to prevent there use in this game.
What about Harmonics? Not really a issue, as we are hanging chunks of steel off the ends of the barrels anyway for harmonic control.
Sorry for the small rant that primitive statement hit a nerve.
 
blades--

I agree. I don't think they are primitive at all. For those who don't know these scopes, all the adjustments are in the mounts. No adjustment knobs are actually on the scope itself.

The rear mount where the windage and elevation knobs are located is a beautiful piece of machining.

Instead of "primitive," I would say 'sophisticated" or "refined." Or even "beautiful," if that is not too subjective a word.
 
Vic...

vicvanb said:
I've had Lyman STSs and Unertl 2 inch Targets. Optically they are pretty similar but that big Unertl objective sure gives a very bright image. Truthfully, I preferred the Unertls and sold the STSs.

Another one from the old days is the Bausch&Lomb 6-24X. I have one and like it but at the higher powers it's not as bright as the fixed power Unertls.

All of these scopes still bring high prices--proof that they are still in demand despite their weight and primitive mounts. And, as someone else said, they look great. For those of us who were hunting woodchucks and crows with them in the 1950s and 1960s, nothing says "Varmint Rifle" as well as a heavy- barreled, walnut-stocked rifle topped by a Unertl, Lyman or B&L!
Click to expand...

primitive mounts? Check out the Brackney frozen Leupold setup.
 
Pete...

Montana Pete said:
Mark--

Thanks for those websites. I went out and read both of those threads and learned quite a bit, although I suspect that purchase of these scopes for over $900 and up is a bit rich for my blood. It just makes me grateful I have the one I have.

Mine is a Lyman STS in 15X. Someone stated they didn't know the magnification of one of these scopes that they owned, but guessed it was a 20X. This confuses me, because a ring back by the eyepiece end of mine has a "15X" impressed in white against the black blueing.

I am very glad to share that I do have the recoil spring on mine. You hardly need one on a 22LR, but they sure do look neat. Did you ever get the recoil spring on yours?

Mine is mounted on a Savage Model 19NRA target rifle -- a rather heavy-barrel item. The gun plus scope look very cool -- not inferior to some of the photos posted on the website you referenced.

One problem with my scope was getting it mounted -- the gunsmith could not find or obtain bases that would work. As I recall, I went to several gunsmiths. Finally, one of them obtained "the wrong" mount and milled it down to the correct height! This was many years ago.

-----------------------------

I am bewildered by vincvanb who tells of hunting crows and woodchucks with his STS type scopes.

Do people realize that the objective lens needs to be dialed in to the distance in order to use one of these scopes? For instance, I am shooting smallbore at 25 yds, and decide to shoot a target at 50 yds. It would be all blurred. I would have to dial the objective lens to the correct distance to get any clarity. My objective has white embossed marks for 50 ft and for 25, 50, and farther yards.

How could a person use that scope on crows, unless all the crows decided to land at the exact same distance from the shooter? Ditto for woodchucks.

People who have ever used these scopes will know what I am talking about. They were pretty much a "paper targets" item.
Click to expand...

Unertl made their "Varmint and Ultra Varmint" scopes (non calibrated and calibrated objective cells) specifically for varmint hunting. They are very easy to adjust to target range, slower than modern internal adjust, focusing objective scopes since they were push, push adjustable, but workable none the less. That's one reason though, Unertl came out with their Programmer scope. Adjustment was less than a turn on a cam arrangement.
 
Paper Targets??????????????

Montana Pete said:
Mark--

Thanks for those websites. I went out and read both of those threads and learned quite a bit, although I suspect that purchase of these scopes for over $900 and up is a bit rich for my blood. It just makes me grateful I have the one I have.

Mine is a Lyman STS in 15X. Someone stated they didn't know the magnification of one of these scopes that they owned, but guessed it was a 20X. This confuses me, because a ring back by the eyepiece end of mine has a "15X" impressed in white against the black blueing.

I am very glad to share that I do have the recoil spring on mine. You hardly need one on a 22LR, but they sure do look neat. Did you ever get the recoil spring on yours?

Mine is mounted on a Savage Model 19NRA target rifle -- a rather heavy-barrel item. The gun plus scope look very cool -- not inferior to some of the photos posted on the website you referenced.

One problem with my scope was getting it mounted -- the gunsmith could not find or obtain bases that would work. As I recall, I went to several gunsmiths. Finally, one of them obtained "the wrong" mount and milled it down to the correct height! This was many years ago.

-----------------------------

I am bewildered by vincvanb who tells of hunting crows and woodchucks with his STS type scopes.

Do people realize that the objective lens needs to be dialed in to the distance in order to use one of these scopes? For instance, I am shooting smallbore at 25 yds, and decide to shoot a target at 50 yds. It would be all blurred. I would have to dial the objective lens to the correct distance to get any clarity. My objective has white embossed marks for 50 ft and for 25, 50, and farther yards.

How could a person use that scope on crows, unless all the crows decided to land at the exact same distance from the shooter? Ditto for woodchucks.

People who have ever used these scopes will know what I am talking about. They were pretty much a "paper targets" item.
Click to expand...

You do realize the Marines used these scopes as their sniper scopes for many years. They were used as long range varmit scopes for at least 30 years. The unertl programmer scopes were some of the finest scops ever made.
 
J Pappas said:
You do realize the Marines used these scopes as their sniper scopes for many years. They were used as long range varmit scopes for at least 30 years.
Click to expand...

Varmint Cong?

When I started this journey some 3 or so weeks ago I had no idea these scopes were so popular. I'd also seen mention here before about "Frozen" scopes but I had no idea what that meant until now. So I find it interesting that things seem to have come full circle and folks are using external adjustments again.

Cheers,

Mark
 
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Geez--a guy speaks the truth and gets jumped on!

I can assure you that thousands (millions) of crows and woodchucks were killed by varmint hunters using these scopes years ago. I killed my fair share. Yes, the AO parallax adjustment at times was awkward but it certainly didn't prevent the use of these scopes on game. If you want more proof, read some of Bob Bell's articles. He had decades of experience using these scopes as did his hunting partners.

Maybe "primitive" was a poor word choice. Excuse me. What I meant was that recoil drove the scope forward (or more properly, the rifle recoiled out from under the scope) and either the spring returned it to the rear or you reached up and pulled it back--I preferred the latter. Either way, they didn't always come back every time to the exact same place. Plus, it's more "primitive" to have that front scope block way up on the barrel instead of both bases being on the receiver. The latter has a proven record of better accuracy.
 
Varmint Cong???????

El Paso Mark said:
Varmint Cong?

When I started this journey some 3 or so weeks ago I had no idea these scopes were so popular. I'd also seen mention here before about "Frozen" scopes but I had no idea what that meant until now. So I find it interesting that things seem to have come full circle and folks are using external adjustments again.

Cheers,

Mark
Click to expand...

The 8X Lyman scope was used by the Marines in WW2 as a sniper scope. The Redfield 6X18 was the Marine Corps sniper scope in Vietnam.
 
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